Installed SACC power steering... what a difference. Plus a bonus!

Looks great. Nice job.
hopefully i get a first hand experience next month. Lol

Very nice.   Had noticed that they were out of stock on the website.  Is it a build to order product and was there much lead time?

He said they are rarely in stock, it took about 2 weeks to get mine.

An added benefit of power steering is, you can now add a bunch of caster to your front suspension, without it making your steering effort unreasonably heavy. Extra caster will give you added high speed stability as well as stronger self-centering of the steering.

OK. Cool. Didn’t know that. Thanks.

@Riley posted:

Had my eye on Scott's power steering kit for a while, but every time I wanted to buy it, something else came up that took priority... but finally got it and installed it this weekend. I will say that it took me a lot longer than the 3 hours I think has been mentioned to install... it was more than double for me. Once I was done bending upside down and got it all installed, it worked like a charm. No longer is it annoying backing out of my garage and driveway, let alone having to maneuver in and out of parking lots. The ability to adjust the resistance on the fly is awesome, but the big bonus which I hadn't read mentioned was how much more secure my whole steering column is now. He adds a reinforcement that completely firms up the whole thing. That alone was worth a couple hundred bucks.

Fitment is definitely snug, but it works. Picture here looks like it's blocking the clutch pedal, but it doesn't at all. Don't even notice it down there when I'm driving. Can't wait to get the car in the canyons now! Thanks, and for anybody on the fence, I can't recommend it enough.

Re-reading this has raised my curiosity? I always like to read the installation instructions that a manufacturer supplies with the product before I buy it.

SAAC doesn't have that offered on their web page. Would it be a big deal to scan it and post it here?

Specifically I'd like to see what they tell you to do with attaching the front part of the column to the EPS unit?

Does he tell you to cut that and supplies a coupler fitting to tie them together or does he supply a complete steering shaft and you need to reinstall your steering wheel and ignition switch to it?

The back end with the u-joint and the DD shaft is obvious (I think) from what I see of the entire unit.

The steering wheel side I can't see and his posted picture of that end doesn't show the detail of what needs to be done there.

Also, you need to install those two new studs? Those are bolts dropped in from the top?

I think I threw away the instructions after I was done with it, but lemme scrounge around, maybe I have it. Or maybe Scott will post the instructions. You put your old wheel, ignition, and turn signal stalk onto the new shaft. The only cutting you have to do is into the underside of the dash metal with a dremel, like an inch or two up to the four bolt holes to fit the unit. It secures with only the front two bolts, and then there's a second mounting piece that bolts further down the shaft that gives the bonus stability that I talked about.

Here's the installation manual for an early Mustang.  This might answer your questions.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/file...aa9.pdf?v=1607639019

This looks more complicated than the Pantera where you don't have to cut or modify the column, have to mess with that bearing plate, or do the staking like in this.

I think it is much more complicated on the Mustang.  Basically, I thought the instructions might help answer your question about "attaching the front part of the column to the EPS unit."

The Mustang is an interesting  installation but the Pantera is kind of unique.

The output is pretty simple in the Pantera. Actually much simpler then the Mustang but because of the space limitation in the front and the location of the ignition switch in the Pantera, the front shaft needs a special application.

I had built an EPS for the Pantera using a nice used Capri column and a GM Equinox EPS unit.

Although compact by most applications, the motor assembly and it's housing was too big for the Pantera.

The motor unit being used now in these kits is designed for small light vehicles, essentially go-cart size and is small enough to fit the Pantera well and powerful enough to steer the car.

The question to me is what SACC provided for a solution to the front connection. Apparently he supplied another compatable shaft so that you didn't have to cut up your existing Pantera unit?

I'm just curious as to what that looks like and if he supplied the hollow tube as well or you need to reuse yours?

Thank you Garth for the effort. I appreciate that and thank you too Riley for the description.

PRODUCT DESCRIPTION

In short, it is……

AMAZING!!

😁

Larry

my apologies to the newbies of this forum without the historical backstory. 😉

P.S. -

I had the SACC power steering installed in 2511 during the collision repairs. My first drive to the cul-de-sac at the end of my block was a wonderful thing. Turning around using just a finger and a thumb was a strange and wonderful improvement.

👍👍

Larry

Yeah, it is a weird sensation at first... it now feels completely natural and "modernizes" the driving experience and makes the car more desirable to drive. In fact, I think I'm going to take it to work today!

FWIW, I just installed one of these EPAS units in my 66 Mustang which used to be a BEAR to drive at low speeds due to the GT steering box (which has a quicker ratio) AND the Shelby Quick Steer pitman arm and idler arm which further quickened the ratio.  Now it's effortless and a joy to drive!

I'm seriously considering this upgrade for the Pantera! 

I’m installing this now.  I want to make sure I’m cutting out the correct piece(s) of metal before final fitting.  The pictures supplied and posted on SACC’s website are not that informative.  I’m assuming the metal to be removed lies on the left hand side of the column bracket mount in order to allow the cylindrical motor to fit fullly up into the dash (and allow the bracket on the column to match to the native mounting points).  Is that correct?

It's been so long since I installed it, I don't remember. Can you post pics?

I mounted mine on the front firewall. Lots of room there

Here are some of pictures showing my test fit of SACC Power Steering.  I hope this helps. Larry

Thanks for the pictures. This helps get a handle on it.

I agree with the added caster. I used to deal with Hall for ease of finding parts.

I bought the standard a-arm poly bushings from him at a time when he also had the offset bushings. I was overly cautious of adding that much more caster. Now I can't find the offset bushings at all.

I'd rather go that route then modify the a-arms. I don't like welding on hardened steel.

Have any of you found the source for the offset poly bushings?

@USCDOC13 posted:

I mounted mine on the front firewall. Lots of room there

This post needs more explanation and pictures...please?

@panteradoug posted:

This post needs more explanation and pictures...please?

My advice is to remove the dash. It's honestly not that difficult. That way you can have all the access you need and can minimize being upside down. Sorry I blew it and didn't take many pics of the mounting!  I do think I used 2 rivnuts into the firewall there to mount the box just to the left of the AC/Heater box. I'll look for more pics.

Here’s what I’m starting with. I have remove the dash already. This is what the steering column mounting area looks like before any metal is removed. Clearly, there’s a lot of variation amongst early cars.

Also, how the hell do you get the ignition switch off the steering column?

I cut a line through each bolt with a dremel so you can use a flat bladed screw driver to back them out. I believe they are one-time use bolts. I had to buy new bolts which shear at the appropriate torque when reassembled. It might be different with your new column.

Yes, they are one-time-use safety bolts. The head will snap off at the proper torque.

as already suggested a Dremel with a cut off wheel to create a slotted bolt head is the easiest solution. Or get a very sharply pointed center punch, and gently tap the bolt head in the proper  CCW direction.

or get a small drill, and the proper size easy out to remove the bolt in that manner

replacement bolts are not necessary. A slotted bolt stub will work just fine. Hex head bolts will not fit but a socket head cap screw performs just fine.

Larry

That’s a first for me. Took ‘em out with an Icon damaged screw extractor kit. I’ll just cut slots in the face and reuse them.

Because all of these dashes look a little different I’m assuming the bracket which is hard mounted to the new steering column bolts into the screw holes closest to the driver. If you look up at the picture I posted above. (I’ll post it again here.) I assume the screws go in the holes circled.

that would leave the second hanging bracket to mount more toward the rear of the unit.  Is this all correct?

Once they are out, just replace them with a button head machine screw. I have forgotten what the thread is on them but the button heads are available SAE or Metric.

The original bolts installed are anti-theft devices. They are soft steel, not hardened and normally the heads can be drilled off with a 5/16" or 3/8" bit.

Drill the head off, separate the top and bottom, use a vise grip to unthread the remaining studs or drill them out entirely and re-thread the housing.

It is rather simple and not difficult to do at all. I've done a few.

On the subject of the EPS. The source of those control knobs is Bruno. (Brunosteering.com). Apparently he is the original designer of the EPS systems for GM.

The source of the SACC "kit" is easysteering.com in the UK. It is their "A" kit.

Bruno now has three add on control devices that just plug into the SAturn Vue/Chevy Equinox CM/ECU.

One is the manual version with the potentiometer knob. That is the one supplied in the easysteer "A kit" and the SACC kit. He has also an "automatic" which varies the boost by reading off of the internal torque sensor, without the need for the control knob and a third which actually varies the assist according to the actual vehicle speed as determined by communicating with a GPS satellite, not the internal torque sensor.

The issue with changing the add on control is that the controls are built for certain individual control modules based on the vehicle and model year they are sourced from. At the moment that is primarily for use with the Vue, which actually does add credance to the claim that the Vue CM/ECU works with other motor units depending on the torque sensor used. They do not interchange with other non Vue based CM's because they contain additional internal software added by Bruno for the specific ECU with the software varying from application to application.

Easysteer isn't telling anyone the source of their components and re-labeling  them with their own identification. They won't even show you a picture of the kits. I doubt that SACC even knows as they are just a customer of Easysteer like everyone else is?

I would surmize that if you want the GPS controller, you will need to wait for Easysteer to offer that as an option?

The first ECU Bruno built the controls for is the Saturn Vue/Equinox. There is some proprietary information unavailable but it is rumored that the ECU box is from the Saturn Vue and will work with certain other Japanese sourced motor assemblies like the Versa, Prius or Yaris, that use the same blue torque sensor but this is not confirmed.

Of note, there are also left hand drive versions with the motor on the right side of the steering wheel and right hand drive versions with the motor on the left hand side.

Bruno is working currently on the add on control models for the Prius that he says won't be available for  "some weeks".

He is no longer speaking to me because I bugged him too much on the subject but I mention all of this here simply that if you are considering an EPS unit from anyone, you MAY want to inquire about the options available for the add on control devices.

Stay away from Bruno for awhile on this please? He will just chew me out as orchestrating a rush on him unnecessarily. I can be a real PITA sometimes and like Orsen Wells once said, "I will make no wine...until it is time!" (maybe in my case that should be "whine"?)

He is very friendly and generally answers questions but "even a puppy has teeth and will attempt to defend itself eventually against aggressors".

SAAC  has done a nice job in re-engineering the "A" kit for the Pantera into a relatively easy bolt in. Unless you want to screw around with all of this re-engineering on your own, you would be advised to deal with SACC for the easiest install system? Their application is a sound one.

Doug, did you ever connect with Gerry Romack? Gerry is the President of The Great Lakes Panteras POCA chapter. As I’ve mentioned before, he’s the only person I know of that’s spent time driving Panteras equipped with both of the popular EPS systems. I believe he’s installed both too.

@davidnunn posted:

Doug, did you ever connect with Gerry Romack? Gerry is the President of The Great Lakes Panteras POCA chapter. As I’ve mentioned before, he’s the only person I know of that’s spent time driving Panteras equipped with both of the popular EPS systems. I believe he’s installed both too.

No, I have not.

Considering the possible variables I am not surprised at all that the feel will vary.

It can be the software, the motor assembly itself used, the amount of caster, the size and profile of the tires, the suspension components and probably even the steering wheel installed?

The fact that you can run the Japanese motor assemblies with matching CM/CPU's on just a three wire hook up with no variable assist, then varying software with different control boxes alone just makes the final feel a guessing game.

This business of choices of Bruno's added on control box is actually developing into an advantage since eventually it will offer options on how to control the assist of units already installed with just a plug in.

David. The EPS unit that you are using from the Dutch guys uses Bruno's controller as well, i.e., it's probably a VUE ECU.

Yes hej, the circled holes will be used by the bracket on the SACC kit.

@panteradoug posted:

This business of choices of Bruno's added on control box is actually developing into an advantage since eventually it will offer options on how to control the assist of units already installed with just a plug in.

David. The EPS unit that you are using from the Dutch guys uses Bruno's controller as well, i.e., it's probably a VUE ECU.

Doug, do you know EZ is using Bruno's controller or are you speculating?

EZ told me they can alter the programming by sending me a flash drive that updates the firmware.

You are correct in that the two systems have very different "feel", according to Gerry R. 

As I said, some information is proprietary.  Some will talk a little, then they shut up.

No I can not confirm who is the original source of anything other then they are all likely hackers of sorts, using existing systems. SOME are saying that Bruno is the source of the first GM EPS systems, that being the VUE/Equinox.

Some are inferring that they have installed their own software through an independent plug in control like the one that Bruno offers. That is possible but does not seem highly likely.

I will say that Bruno's "patch" controller seems to be the only one that is openly marketed independently. Lots of sellers are claiming originality but it would seem they just repackage others items.

It may simply be that they are ALL being cautious, intentionally evasive at some point for the purpose of camouflaging their own participation and software changes/hacking because they do not own the rights to any of the systems they are modifying and remarketing and "the lawyers" may be watching?

"Detroit" manufacturers have always been concerned that they would ultimately be held liable for injuries caused directly or indirectly by their products.

I'm curious about the flash drive that you mention? Exactly where do you install it? Is it made to plug into the ECU? I was also told specifically that there is a software patch installed for aftermarket use that was not referred to as Firmware.

I was told that an add on board was made with new programming. It is necessary to run the original factory systems in stand alone aftermarket applications without the original vehicles CPU and sensors. That may be Bruno's add on controllers? It requires it's own separate board and chip and is suggestive of Bruno's controllers.

Is someone else building their own plug in adapters?

When you go to automatically modifying the assist according to the vehicle speed (GPS), instead of torque sensing, there needs to be a program installed to reduce the assist. That is a script that someone needed to write and it can't just be an arbitrary rate of reduction?

A difference in that re-programming could affect the feel of the system in the car also? Perhaps there is more then one program as you have suggested David?

I had this discussion with one of the suppliers of kits here in the US and he clearly and flatly said that the graph of that reduction is not a straight line progressive reduction, it is a curve of rapidly changing slope and had to be determined by someone, somewhere. He claimed that source was Bruno.

I am a little suspicious of Bruno also. Some of the questions that I asked him he just didn't know whereas it seems to be public knowledge quoted by the "street rod contingent" that some of the EPS units (mostly of Japanese manufacturer origin...Toyota, Nissan) that are originally designed to read CAN N and I think CAN S, but will go into a default, "fail safe mode" with lack of a CAN presence and give a constant, non-varying assist equal to a vehicle moving at 43 mph with just a simple three wire hook up. That has been pretty much confirmed by multiple sources.

The source of that information is the Toyota Service Manual. Experts should have known that I would think?

I did just noticed that Bruno's controllers in one place say shipped from Portugal and in another place in the auction are shipped from China?

I have to take this all in bite size pieces and wait to digest it.

I suspect that I am close to understanding the entire story but there is likely a degree of untruths being told by the sellers that need to be filtered out. That actually helps their own businesses from standing out too much to the lawyers who represent GM, Ford or Toyota or whoever exactly the technology is being re-engineered from but I don't see the urgency since I don't think any of them are exactly going to corner the market anytime soon?

At this point I think that the street roders are the most honest about what works and what doesn't? They have no financial dogs in the hunt to protect. They are simply into the "sport of the hunt".

I'm reminded that there are tangential details that re-emerge that are not directly related to the project at hand. Tying in a simple solution for more caster without increased steering effort with the installation of the EPS is an example.

I'm enjoying my investigation and I just get more involved when I have nothing going on and I'm bored.