JESEL ROCKER ARM FAILURE - MME ENGINE

Have they been adjusted post the initial 'run in' period? I assume you are using solid lifters?

No adjustments have been made. The engine was run in at MME, dyno tested at MME with about 10-12 pulls. Hot lash was adjusted by MME at this time. Yes it is a solid roller motor

quote:

Originally posted by DJEZC:
No adjustments have been made. The engine was run in at MME, dyno tested at MME with about 10-12 pulls. Hot lash was adjusted by MME at this time. Yes it is a solid roller motor

What does MME have to say?

Waiting to hear what that they say once my mechanic talks to them today.

Must be very disappointing. I know exactly how you feel. Destroyed my cam and couple of lifters after all of 20 break-in minutes on an engine rebuilt by a reputable builder.

Well my mechanic is talking to someone at MME, not Mark, when somebody in the background tells the person talking to my mechanic not to tell him anything about the engine.

Nice customer support. Let me make it clear also I am not looking for them to warranty anything, just give me the part info so I can replace what broke with equal or better.

By the way when I originally got the motor and asked for a part number list of what was in the motor I was told that there was no way that they would give that to me. They said I might take the list to an engine builder who would then turn out dozens of copies without MCKeowns research investment. But they assured should I ever need a part number just to call them and they would tell me what I needed to know.

Another lie.

Dude that is sad.....

Let me get this straight...Pay a bunch of money and not get told what you paid for?
What you paid for breaks and not get told what to do to fix it?

This is because you would most definately make 200 off shore knock offs of this engine and sell them?

I respect wanting to keep R&D info or "trade secrets" private but you probably paid good $$$$ for this motor. A little help would be nice.

MME must also realize any engine builder of skill could tear the thing apart and find out exactly what is in it anyway. And not helping you might lead you to that person.Gasp, then the secret would be out!

Tiger Woods could teach me how to golf but that doesn't mean I can beat him.

Good luck man.

Hmmmm....

Did you use a high ZDDP oil or a supplement?

Without that, you may have lost a couple of cam lobes...leading to (especially with solid lifters) some harsh valvetrain action that beat those rockers to death?

Larry

DJEZC,
Wow, sorry to here of this. Hopefully the rockers are all that failed. Check and see if they are cast Aluminum. Not all that strong compared to billet of excellent quality or forgings. Also that is a very High load area and with a high lift cam with fast ramp speeds strength would be more critical.
Zddp would not be an issue as the reason the manufacturer's went to rollers in the first place was to remove ZDDP which was fouling catalitic converters. I posted this info a long while back for every ones benefit.

http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5650045562...350069174#1350069174

Amazing they are so secretive as my builder and i talk about all aspects of the build, even the cam spec's which takes a little to understand, but really there are no secrets when most of the parts are store bought, of course unless they would be embarressed as to what they used?

Good luck & Hope all ends well,
Mark

I was really blown away by MME's attitude when we were close to the end of the build and I asked for a list of parts and their associated manufacturer's part numbers.

You would think I had asked to make a human sacrifice out of their first born son or something.

They said absolutely not, that they never gave that out under any circumstances and that there was no reason I needed to know that information.

If something broke all I needed to do was ask them and they would tell me what I needed to know at that time. They also said they would not tell me because I might go to another engine builder who would then turn out dozens of copies of their work.

I can only think that they had something to hide which is why they were not forthcoming with detailed information. Maybe the Jesel system they installed was used (and abused) parts?

They would not discuss the cam specs or anything else with my mechanic. What do they have to hide? And again it was made clear that no one was seeking a refund, just information so the motor can fixed correctly.

As an enginebuilder myself, I can understand holding on to the cam specs, butthe rockers, that is beyond a joke.
Jessels should be billet not cast.
Did it has big tappet clearance ? or soft springs ? they are the only things that I can think would cause a rocker to break.

Jesel thinks that the cup where the pushrod sits may have been overtorqued (Jesel states that this adjuster should not be torqued more than 25 ft/lbs.) causing the body of the rocker to spread over time and eventually fail. The two failed pieces are being sent back to Jesel as we speak and I will have the torque on all the others checked. If they are over 25 ft/lbs they will all be replaced.

Shouldn't have MME known this? When the adjusted the lash they did not use a torque wrench so I know they have no idea what they torqued them to. I was there and watched them when they were adjusting the lash.

I purchased a Klein 393C 620HP stroker that came with a full and comprehensive build list with parts used, specs and dyno sheet.

DJEZ,

Even if you were going to churn out these motors by the hundreds, that takes money and resources and a lot of time. Plus you have to have a reputation to sell these to someone -- sounds like B.S. coming out of MME. From what you are saying, they are definitely trying to hide something -- like substandard parts.

I hate to tell you this, but I would be worried about the rest of the engine as well. I'm sure you have had thoughts going in this direction anyway. I would almost have a reputable engine builder that you can really trust take a look at it so you do not loose a head or crankshaft.

Man, sorry to hear about this -- this is definitely something that does not make you feel good; and all you do is worry about it, and the correct next step.

I don't think the rest of the engine is going to have other issues. I will have all the rocker arms checked for over torque on the push rod adjuster. Any that are found to be over the torque spec will be replaced.

I remember when MME did the hot lash and they definitely did not use a torque wrench, so it is very likely that they overtorqued some of the rockers. In speaking with Jesel this was a well known failure mode to them. If they are overtorqued Jesel will not warranty them. If they are not overtorqued Jesel has agreed to replace them free of charge.

I just feel that MME's lack of cooperation is just par for the course as to my customer experience with them. I would not go to them again if I needed another engine nor could I in good conscience reccomend them to anybody, especially in the Pantera community.