Magazine

What David Adler built up in years is destroyed now in a very short period by George Pence.
It's sad, but PI is dead.
RIP

quote:

I was unaware that you or any others have been locked out from posting in some of the forum areas.

He is not locked out any more than the rest of us.

Only Admin users have posting privileges in that section.

We all do have Reply use, however.

Larry

You have raised this issue at a time when I am relocating both my home and the club 25 miles west to Ventura. I am living out of boxes and the club office is disassembled. My only internet access at this time is via my weekday employer's computer network, I am not capable of accessing the internet in the evening or during weekends. On top of that, I was out of town last week in order to run our event in Reno. And so my response to your concerns was slow in coming because I have only just read this thread.

Only club representatives can start threads in the club news forum. That seems perfectly logical to me. Frankly, I've been considering elimination of that forum altogether, because it just isn't used that often. Any news we need to share can be posted in the community news forum. So ... when the club news forum is deleted, please don't think it is some big conspiracy, OK?

News about the magazine is not forthcoming because it affects people who would rather not be in the public eye. I'm sorry but that's the way it is. If it were you, you would want your wishes respected just as much as they do. I have REPEATEDLY asked people seeking magazine information to contact me privately, AND SO I AM ASKING AGAIN. Those members of Pantera International who sincerely want to know what's going on with the club or magazine, please contact me privately. Everyone else will likely find their posts deleted.

I believe the DeTomaso Internet Community fulfills the club's original mission, the exchange of information between Pantera owners, better than the original newsletter or magazine ever did. This is why I have invested significant time giving you the best forum we can provide; I'm not referring to the visual changes alone, but to the organization of the forums and constant moderating in order to make the information you seek as easy to find as possible. The DeTomaso Internet Community is here to stay, don't be concerned in that regard, I realize the value these forums offer to each and every Pantera owner and enthusiast. I have explained on several occasions that the Pantera International Car Club is surviving out of my pocket at this time, I have spent the last year adjusting my personal finances so I can continue to do this indefinitely if necessary. You have my word that Pantera International will be here long into the future.

Decisions are being formulated about the direction the club is going with its media on a weekly basis. I have spoken with several people in that regard in the last two weeks. I can't share every little detail of the behind the scenes issues. Nor am I going to announce "PLANS" because people will then start hounding me with questions about when are the changes are going to take place. Once the plans become reality the club members will receive a letter announcing those new features.

I can understand the feelings expressed by some that Pantera International is "dead". This is because many people feel the only contribution the club offered is the magazine. That is just not accurate. Pantera International is not dead, and the club contributes more than the magazine. The club has continued to do all the things for the DeTomaso Community it has always done, with the exception of the magazine. Pantera International provides the forum you are reading at this very moment. Ask Larry Finch where he acquired the trophies for his Reno-Fernley track event. Ask the Fun Rally attendees how they liked the karting event organized by Pantera International. If you plan on attending the Concorso Italiano this year, the DeTomaso Paddock will again be hosted by Pantera International. I'm not mentioning these things in order to brag, I would rather remain quietly behind the scenes, but I feel I need to mention them just to make certain people aware of the club's contribution to the DeTomaso community.

I am excited about the future, I wish I could share the details with you, but that just wouldn't be a wise business practice.

respectfully,

George aka the cowboy from hell

quote:

Those members of Pantera International who sincerely want to know what's going on with the club or magazine, please contact me privately.

P.M. sent

Larry

George take a deep breath ... I know how much work this is ... keep the faith brother ... say the word and if you need help we are just a PM away ... I have a brother in law who owns the 3rd largest printing co in the USA he has an awsome set of tools ! His Dad was a TV Repairman ! I'm sure he can get a few MEXICANS to run off a few copies of the new magazine for you ? LOL

It's so sad how narrow minded thinking only sees certain things! As George says, P.I. supports the Detomaso Marque in so many ways yet some keep harping about the magazine. The magazine is just one facet of this club. George donates much of his time and his own money to sponsor and attend events to represent the cause. He keeps this board operational and has been a wealth of information and help to both new and existing owners. I cannot count the times that he and other have saved me countless amount of dollars and time! I'll let you all in on a secret . . . the treasure of this club is NOT the magazine! It's the unselfish people that give so much of their time and effort to help others, be it friends or strangers. I have made many lifelong friends here who I treasure more than any magazine! It's been a while since I've said this but thanks guys for all the help and support that you've provided me with over the years!

Well said Dennis, and so true.

Mark

Let me just come out with it. Do I miss the magazine? Yes. Do I wish I had gotten more than one in the last 3 years? Yes.

But can I claim that absent the magzine, the club benefits have been negated? No.

The 'value' of my dues (which have now been generously wiped away resultant of this single missing benefit) has been repaid many times over. This board, plus individual members' input, George's personal input, and making a few new friends have been a boon to this hobby.

I've over-suggested "how" to fix the magazine problem, now having bowed out of that, recognizing it won't likely return. If it does, a bonus. If it doesn't, the value remains.

Not sure I understand the secrecy of the status, nor do I need to. Business etiquette and attorneys often squash open communication. Sadly, this 'openness' is what we've half come to expect, and thus sealed lips often raise more suspicion - right or wrong - than need be.

Hopefully facts will be forthcoming for the faithful who make this a fraternity instead of a divided sect. Mission clarity always helps.

Blah, Blah, Blah...

George you are a saint to undertake the BS of "where is the magazine and what have you done for me lately crowd." I enjoy the forum and the resources it provides. For that you win the Oscar.

However as a businessman you have really missed the mark. The reason you are out of your pocket now and will be forever is that you don't collect membership dues. I had asked you when I saw you at the last PIM Holiday party "don't I owe you for last year, this year, etc?" I still owe you and I bet the rest of us do as well. Until you square away the dues, the magazine will never print and you will be PI poor.

If you were to have a magazine I'll pay dues relating to that treat. If this is just a forum I would be happy to contribute some lesser amount as support. While the forum is something I visit every day the magazine is something to keep and review over and over. A "banner" for our marque and club.

Yes Geroge I'm still waiting for my "cover and story" in the mag as promised to me Summer 2007. I'm sure there are many who would also like that privledge and would oblige you with their car as well.

What gives?

Respectfully, Dave

It's nice what Dennis & Adam had to say , but the fact is people paid the dues for the magazine of which they were supposed to received and have never seen.
Would you feel the same if you paid for a subscription for Car & Driver magazine and never received an issue, but was told their web site would compensate for what you paid?
Dave & Linda Adler in their last issue made a point of being very proud of the club and the magazine and made a point of pointing out how they never missed putting out the four issues ever year.
Since it was taken over officially on July 1st in 2005 we have seen one issue.
Many activities that George pointed out were happening with Dave & Linda along with the publication of the magazine.
I think George is a probably a great guy that I would enjoy having a drink with, but I would take him to task for his performance since taking over the club.
Tom

I subscribed when I got my car a few years ago and never received an issue. However, I must say... while the mag is nice, and it would be pretty cool to see your own cat in print... I am willing to forego the mag and simply call it even for the expert advice I have received directly in response to a specific question about my car. Responses from CFH are usually a comprehensive address to the question complete with some background..... I am willing call it even for the personal responses I have received.....

While I am new to this forum and De Tomaso's in general, I am not new to message based forums and online communities. Obviously I was not part of the club before George owned this club, but I am a member of the forum who browses and uses it. If there was a magazine, I would consider paying a fee for it. What I would not consider paying for is access to a forum. Nor do I believe people should have to pay for a forum. How many other car groups pay for access to a forum? Not many, and if there are, there are free alternatives. If advertisers want to pay for ad space on a forum, no problem, but making users pay money to chat with each other I disagree with. I think there should be donation drives to pay for upgrading the forum for new features or paying for hosting. But frankly the ad space should pay for hosting. If there are not enough pantera vendors interested in paying for ad space, then like I said, do drives. I know people who would help me with hosting if I needed it for close to nothing.

I'm not sure how you can consider access to this forum a benefit of club membership when nonmembers have the same access to it. Obviously you could shut it off and only let paying members use it, but I would go start another forum tomorrow and make it free. The real value this forum has is its members and the archives, thats it. With that said the members are worth more than the archives because much of what has been discussed can be re-hashed.

My personal opinion is the magazine and the forum should be separated. If people want to pay for a magazine, they can pay for a magazine. If people are mad that they paid for a magazine and never got it or got refunded then they should be mad. If people are mad that George took over the club and stopped the magazine production, they can be mad. I'm guessing David Adler got tired of all the work and no one else stepped up besides George, who obviously had the best intentions. Yeah George can't handle it and I think you just need to be honest with everyone George and just say "The magazine is done until I retire and even then, who knows if i will have the time or motivation to do it." In the meantime, why doesn't someone else start another Magazine if it is in such high demand? Seriously if you aren't going to do it, then stop moaning. It will either have to be with someone who is retired and extremely active in the Pantera community or a collaboration of people. Even then, how can one person make the events nationwide. They can't, so it will almost certainly be a collaborative effort. But the people involved should split the profits from their agreed duties.

This forum does not need constant babysitting and bigbrothering by an administrator. These are grown men who can moderate each other when one gets out of line. I've been logging in daily for awhile now and very few threads are created/replied to on here on a daily basis, so I know this forum does not require much work to operate especially since its hosted by someone else.

End of rant Go ahead and ball me out, but even an outsider can see its plain as day.

quote:

Originally posted by new&slow:
I would enjoy having a drink with, but I would take him to task for his performance since taking over the club.
Tom

Maybe "Pantera International" should be renamed to "George's Buddy And Beer Club"

I've been a member of P.I. since the days when Evelyn Blanchette ran the Club and I can say, without hesitation, I've looked forward to the Quarterly magazine every quarter since then.

Way back then, the articles were mostly technical in nature and usually dealt with overheating, rear axle bearings, etc. Ford was still "in the picture" as well and so P.I. kept us informed in this regard. P.I. helped us keep our Panteras on the road, at a time when information was not as available as it has been for the last decade, or so.

When the Adler's took over P.I., they transformed it into a world class publication and the nature of the magazine became less technical and more broad, covering racing, politics, vendor profiles, restorations, pictorials, biographies, etc. I believe the Adlers hired Wally Wyss, a professional journalist and writer, as a full time employee of the magazine. Unfortunately for George Pence, the Adlers set the bar so high, no one, short of someone with very deep pockets and publishing experience, could reasonably match the quality of the publication they produced. Likely, the easiest part of producing the quarterly, is coming up with content.

I'm not sure as to what extent the Adler's subsidized P.I., as unlike P.O.C.A., P.I. doesn't publicly disclose its financial statements (although they must be available if P.I. is a non-profit organization).

If the current management wants to know what the "faithful" want P.I. to be, they should ask. P.O.C.A. just sent an e-mail to all of their members asking for feedback re: the Fun Rally in Reno, via an on-line poll. P.I. could easily do the same thing and ask the "faithful", whether they want a magazine or not. Then, the job of getting P.I. back on its feet becomes clear. If George isn't willing to be responsive to the "faithful", he's taking a huge chance that we'll all reject his unilateral decision as to what P.I. will be.

Years ago, the Adlers asked the membership if they would like the magazine to be in an electronic format (on a CD), rather than in print. I believe the feedback was negative.

Until I read George Pence's posting, earlier in this thread, I was under the impression that he was committed to getting the quarterly magazine back into production, based on his numerous assurances over the past few years. In fact, under the "About PI" tab on P.I.'s home page, there still exists a solicitation for memberships that include a quarterly magazine! Why wasn't this removed long ago?

Although George isn't saying so directly, it seems that he's now given up on the idea of producing a quarterly (or am I reading something into his posting that isn't there?). I, for one, feel P.I. isn't P.I. without the quarterly.

My 2 cents !

I look forward to getting another PI magazine. It was always far better and then the poca. I quit getting the poca; it just seemed more like individuals sounding boards then anything else.

quote:

I look forward to getting another PI magazine.

And I'm still waiting for Ed McMahon to deliver my $10,000,000.

quote:

quote:
Those members of Pantera International who sincerely want to know what's going on with the club or magazine, please contact me privately.


P.M. sent

Larry

George did promptly respond to my questions.

But after hearing his reasoning why the magazine is stalled, I remain less than optimistic that publication will resume.

Larry

With the way the net is exploding and print media organizations failing all over the place I’m not sure Pantera related printed Magazines make much sense anymore. The printing and mailing cost is huge! When one of the other Pantera organizations was having production problems with their magazine I decided I really didn’t need it. I expect George was just ahead of his time and right on the mark now.

Mike

quote:

I expect George was just ahead of his time and right on the mark now.

Now that is one generously optimistic view of this issue.

Larry

quote:

under the "About PI" tab on P.I.'s home page, there still exists a solicitation for memberships that include a quarterly magazine! Why wasn't this removed long ago?

Good question. How long has it been since the last PI magazine?

Josh

I think the Fall 2006 issue was mailed out in March 2007.

quote:

Originally posted by Pantera 1887:
With the way the net is exploding and print media organizations failing all over the place I’m not sure Pantera related printed Magazines make much sense anymore. The printing and mailing cost is huge!
Mike

I haven't been involved with the goings on of the magazine, but as a designer that has published a magazine in the past, I can agree with the above statement without knowing all the details.

I couldn't believe such a large magazine was done for such a small group of readers. I always wondered how it made money, or even broke even.

- Robert

quote:

I couldn't believe such a large magazine was done for such a small group of readers. I always wondered how it made money, or even broke even.

Well believe it. For 15 years, by none other than the current co-owner of PIM...

Never late. The magazine even upgraded to full color the last ~couple of years of production.

Josh

Amazing. I know how much work that is. I have done it, although it was for a client's holistic magazine. Obviously I am not as passionate about natural healing and crop circles as I am Panteras. :-)

- Robert