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My new 71 pantera, need help

G Guest
Hey everyone, my names Zybe.Im 15 and live in Ventura County Southern California. I guess i shouldnt call this my "new" car because its been sitting in our garage since be fore i was born.
It's a 1971 Pantera Pre-L. Im not sure of the exact vin number but i know it's arount 1500. My dad bought the car in an auction in i belive '85. When he purchased it it was already modified. The most notable upgrades are: 2inch long tube headers, 4 glasspack mufflers, cat removal, mild cam, edlebrock torker manifold, holley 750 double pumper carb, a lazar nitrous system (never even been touched), 72 pantera door handles, recaro race seats, black emron paint, and new wheels with 225/50/15 front and 285/50/15 rears.

Anyways my dads been letting the car sit for the last 10 years along with his 289 cobra and now neither of them are driveble. My dad also recently purchased a lotus elise so he hasnt really had an intrest in the pantera. Ever since i was a kid i used to look at it in our garage in awe and now that im older and have learned alot about cars, my dad decided that he's going to give me his pantera as a graduation present if i A) be responsible with it and B) help his restore it. Also hes made it prety clear that Even though it'll be "my" car, he's not fully going to trust me with it by myself till ive had 5 to 7 years of driving experience with it.

So, last sunday me, my dad, and a few of his mechanic friends were able to get it started in our garage. with new plugs and a battery it managed to start but we found some problems.
First, the alternator is smoking so we just disconected it but we need a new one.
Second, the carb isnt punmping any gas and we had to spray fuel into in directly to kepp it runing.
Third, the gaskets on the carb and intake manifold are cracked and the car gasket is actually leaking.
and Fourth, weve known this since my dad last parked it , the brake booster is shot.

So i have a few questions, first, can anyone give me a part number for a new alternator belt as we plan on replacing that since its coming off anyways. and second we plan on converting to elctric ignition aslong as we have the car torn apart anyways so can anyone give me some info on this? like do we just have to replace the distributor or do we need a new coil and wires to? and shuld be upgrade the alternator or can a stock one hancle an elctric ignition? also if we upgrade the alternator shuld we upgrade the volt. regulator as well? and lastly if anyone has done this, wats a good, but reasonably priced brand to use for the elctric ignition.

Thanks in advance, Zybe
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George PGeorge PAdmin.
Zybe

welcome to the DeTomaso Internet Community. Congratulations, a Pantera for a graduation present is awesome. Your dad is pretty awesome too.

Since most of your questions were related to the motor, I moved your first post to the engine forum.

Perhaps the easiest route for upgrading the ignition is the installation of a Petronix Ignitor module in the existing distributor. My only apprehension about that option is that I expect the distributor in the car to be in poor shape and in need of replacement or rebuilding. From that perspective a better ignition solution would be to purchase a "ready to run" or "drop-in" distributor, such as the MSD #8350. Distributors like that are a very easy installation, the wiring involved would be much less complicated than the 3rd option, which is upgrading to a Ford Duraspark ignition.

The guys here will have lots of info to share with you to help you get that Pantera on the road. We are here to be your resource.

Pantera International is based in the city of Ventura, we're located next to the Ventura pier. Where are you located?

-G
Last edited by George P
liv1sliv1sMember
quote:
Second, the carb isnt pumping any gas and we had to spray fuel into in directly to kepp it runing.


Possible causes -
1. Your carb needs a rebuild
2. Bad fuel pump.
3. Clogged fuel line/filter.
4. A hole in fuel line on the side from the fuel tank to the IN side of the fuel pump.
5. Rust/sediment in gas tank.

Worst case, you will need to pull the gas tank to clean and seal it which requires pulling the motor/trans as it cannot be done with the tank in the car. Don't ask me how I know that.
If the car has been sitting for more than 10 years, it's probably a combination of problems.

Everybody has a preference on electronic ignition systems. I prefer the MSD 8350 ready to run.

Good luck and welcome to the 4UM
bosswrenchbosswrenchMember
To expand a little on what Bayani said, your pre-L Pantera has a welded-in standpipe inside the fuel tank to deliver fuel to the pump. Condensation INSIDE the tank over 10 yrs of inactivity can and has rusted through the 22" long steel standpipe. So if the fuel level inside the tank happens to be below the rust hole, no fuel will be pulled up by and external fuel pump. You can verify this by filling the tank to the top. If it then starts, you have the dreaded rust hole and resulting limited fuel capacity as the pump won't pick up the full 21+ gallons in the tank.
If it still won't start, you may have a clogged fuel pipe filter-sock. This is a nylon filter on the end of the fuel standpipe, that is well known to varnish up, preventing some or all fuel flow. To fix this, pull the left rear quarter window out of the body and the engine cover panels. Then remove the air vent fitting and/or the fuel gauge sender out thru the window opening. CAREFULLY peer in the tank with a light and if the dark brown sock is still on the end of the standpipe, either blow it off with an air compressor or reach in with a long rod and tear it off.
Be very careful using a compressor here; it's possible to blow up to a gallon of fuel out the fill-pipe or any other openings in the tank, and it's also possible to rupture the tank seams if the fill cap is still in place. Tanks are difficult and expensive to replace. Fires from spilled fuel are worse.
The only other known fixes are-
A- replace the tank. The stock standpipe is unrepairable and the sock filter is unserviceable.
-B- replace the fuel gauge sender with a late model one that has a fuel-out line built in. This is a bolt-in factory upgrade from mid-'73 on. No need to pull the engine/trans/fuel tank. Plug the OEM banjo fitting welded to the internal fuel-out pipe. In the unlikely event that you upgrade to EFI in the future, the leaky internal standpipe can be used as the mandatory EFI fuel return line.
garth66garth66"When speed is the only thing that counts"
Welcome to the forum Zybe! That's a very cool graduation present your dad is offering you, and to help you fix it up to boot! Very cool!

I'm happy to come over and help you fix all these problems in exchange for that tired old neglected POS 289 Cobra taking up valuable garage space. Just let me know and I'll be right over!

As others have said...

1. Replace the carb - you're most likely better off replacing the tired old Holley (unless it's something rare or special) with a new carb. If you've rebuilt carbs before, go for it!

2. Electronic ignition is the way to go. Options include Petronix, MSD 8350, Mallory Unilite, Ford Duraspark, and others. Everyone has their favorites. I have the Mallory Unilite in my Pantera and a Petronix in my 66 Mustang. And I'd probably buy the MSD if I were buying one today. You might as well replace the coil too, but don't waste your money on big fancy high power coils and boxes at this point. And MSD Blaster 2 coil from your local Kragen or speed shop is fine. Just get the thing running reliably first.

3. Replace the spark plugs (DON'T use Platinum plugs) and wires along with the new distributor. If you go with a Petronix kit, replace the distributor cap and rotor too.

4. Replace the alternator. Options range from quality rebuilt alternators from Napa that put out about 85 amps up to high output alternators that put out upwards of 100 amps. At this point, a decent rebuilt unit is fine. Take your old alternator belt to the auto parts store with you and they can match the size.

5. A modern electronic voltage regulator is about $29 at Kragen; cheap! If your old one is fine, don't worry about it. Fix the known issues first.

And here's a list of the best fixes for under $20:
http://www.banzairunnerpantera...chinfo_bestfixes.htm
L Lucky13 (Guest)
thanks for the info everyone.i think the tank is fine because when weopenedit up on sunday it wat empty.and when we had it running it wasnt getting fuel to the engine but gas was leaking out from the carb gaskets (2 because of the nitrous plate). ill check into the gas tank just to double check tho.
On sunday we replaced all the plugs with champion's so that should be good. and also we plan on having the carb rebuilt by a local shop.
also will any alternator fit or do i need a certain part number?

Sorry for the miss post, im new and not sure how everything works yet haha.
Oh and as far as the 289 goes, its in worse shape than the pantera. idk how long its been sitting but we just opened the hood today and that rubber seal around it just cracked so that cant be good. also, in addition to being parked for so long, it was parked because the wiring went bad and now it needs a whole new harness. also, it has "costom" knock of whells that the guy my dad bought it frm made out of buick steelies, and its painted this ugly gold color. but on the good side the guy raced it so it has fender flares and a rollbar, and a louvered hood. the biggest disapointment tho is that it had a HiPo engine but befor he sold it he pulled it and put in a crate 289 so he could keep the engine.

Oh and lastly we live in Las Posas Estates in Camarillo

Again thanks for the info and im gunna go look into that distibutor right now
bossman963bossman963Member
Lucky 13 congrats on the graduation present and most of your questioons have been answered, but since you live in Camarillo ( i live in Simi Valley) there a rebulder of all eletrical parts for cars called Express exchange ( ask 4 Cobie) he will rebuild your alt & can beef it up to more amps- just ask him or he might have 1 on the shelf.
Let me know if I can help or you cant find his #
thx Mike #7042
lf-tp2511lf-tp2511Member
quote:
the Original ( Euro) Pantera version is a 1 wire alt and the American version is 2-3 wire alt, so if you use the American version you will have to do some minor rewiring

I have yet to see, or ever hear of any Pantera that came with a one-wire alternator system. Those one-wire systems were not even available during the production of our cars.

All Panteras came with the standard three-wire set-up common to all Fords of that era.

But I'm open to any info that shows I'm wrong. Wink

Larry
lf-tp2511lf-tp2511Member
quote:
well mine did

Mike,

Hmmm? The one big problem, and the one big advantage, to our cars is modifying them is often done. It can be confusing at times to know for sure what was original on one car versus the other. I strongly suspect your alternator was changed by a previous owner.

What is your VIN? Pushbutton?

Does your alt light in the speedo pod work?

I still do not believe there WAS such a thing as a one-wire system in the early 70's.

Larry
bossman963bossman963Member
Larry I agree with you as to or what has changed things on my Pantera, but now its not an early Pantera, #7042, 1974 GTS its a later model and I have looked @ it as I asked the guy who eliminated all the 1000 yards of extra electrical wiring found in my car now its down to about 100' of wiring- so I agree anything can happen over 3-+ years
thx Mike
lf-tp2511lf-tp2511Member
quote:
also maybe he can give us a price on the brake booster we need repaired. thanx

Shops that can rebuild brake boosters are few and far between. Most likely, if that is your problem , you will have to ship it or buy new.

I hear of few booster failures, but the vacuum hose in the booster system is known to fail.

There is a section of this hose back at the engine and one up in the front trunk - at each end of the steel tube running down the bottom-center channel of the car.

Have you checked those hose sections to determine if they are the problem you have with the brakes?

Be aware, this is a special hose not easily found. Extra strength to not collapse under the vacuum.

Larry
L Lucky13 (Guest)
quote:
Originally posted by LF - TP 2511:

I hear of few booster failures, but the vacuum hose in the booster system is known to fail.

There is a section of this hose back at the engine and one up in the front trunk - at each end of the steel tube running down the bottom-center channel of the car.

Have you checked those hose sections to determine if they are the problem you have with the brakes?

Be aware, this is a special hose not easily found. Extra strength to not collapse under the vacuum.

Larry


No we havent checked that but that could be it. do you have any pictures of wat i should be looking for? also do u have an idea of a price range should we need a new one? or can it be repaired some how?
bosswrenchbosswrenchMember
13, be aware that NO 351-C distributor is a 'drop-in', since the factory and the aftermarket continue to use a cheap spring-pin to hold the distributor drive gear on the end of the distributor shaft. Spring-pins are made of a coil of very thin hardened steel and simply won't take repeated impacts without progressive cracking, culminating in a broken drive. So even on brand-new assemblies, push out the spring pin and use a REAL roll-pin- which is a single coil of much thicker steel. Then put a second smaller roll pin inside the first one. Over the years, this has proven to fix this one weak spot in all Ford distributors.
Where do the 'impacts' come from? The distributor gear also powers the oil pump thru a short extension shaft off its bottom. Small pieces of crud fall into the oil pan, work their way past the screen on the oil pump and get into the pump body. Ford oil pumps are 'gearotor' type and are very good at supplying pulse-less oil flow, but are also highly intolerant of any debris. Stock oil seals harden over time, then crack into small pieces that wash down; sludge accumulates and even tiny chips of metal and casting sand have been found. All cause hesitations to the oil pump which cracks the drive pin. High rpms also seem to play a role in pin failure. The proper pins cost less than $3, so no excuses about being poor.
The most glaring recent example was a brand new electronic distributor in 'Mad Dog' Antenucci's Silver State Pantera. The drive pin failed in 60 miles, leaving him waiting alongside the highway for a tow truck during an open road race in the Nevada desert- the ONLY event he didn't finish that year. He's still using the same distributor, but with an upgraded drive pin.
L Lucky13 (Guest)
Bosswrench, i belive you about this spring but i have no idea wat ur talking about. the only time ive ever worked with pulling out a distributor and puting it back in was on a 65 mustang with an i6 and i dont remember any spring? do u know where i could find any pictures or diagrams of this spring? or will it be pretty obvious to find after i pull the distributor out on the pantera?

Also, i have yet to find if theres a cheaper version of the msd 8350 or a place were i can get it below $300. and i still dont know wat i shuld be looking for when i try to find the vacuum lines to the brake booster
lf-tp2511lf-tp2511Member
quote:
i still dont know wat i shuld be looking for when i try to find the vacuum lines to the brake booster

Zybe,

Very simple.

In the front trunk, there is a black hose connected to the brake vacuum can. It comes up through the bottom of the front trunk. That is the brake vacuum hose. Check it in the trunk, then lift and jack stand the car and check it under the car. When you get under, you will see this hose connects to a steel tube running to the rear of the car. Follow the steel tube and you will find another black vacuum hose where the tube steel tube ends. That is the second - and last - brake vacuum hose. It goes to the engine where it gets its vacuum signal. Check it for cracking also. Do these two hose checks before you consider pulling the booster and naming it as the problem child.

Larry
lf-tp2511lf-tp2511Member
quote:
I believe you about this spring but I have no idea what you're talking about

Zybe,

When the dizzy is pulled, you will see the drive gear. That gear meshes with a gear cut into the front portion of the camshaft and is what rotates the dizzy. As in this photo, the drive gear is pinned to the dizzy shaft. It is the small round hole in the gear. This is what Bosswrench is talking about.

NOTE: There is a minor art and some tricks to pulling and allowing an easy re-installing of a dizzy. Google these or ask us before pulling it up and out.

Larry

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L Lucky13 (Guest)
quote:
Originally posted by LF - TP 2511:
quote:
I believe you about this spring but I have no idea what you're talking about

Zybe,

When the dizzy is pulled, you will see the drive gear. That gear meshes with a gear cut into the front portion of the camshaft and is what rotates the dizzy. As in this photo, the drive gear is pinned to the dizzy shaft. It is the small round hole in the gear. This is what Bosswrench is talking about.

Larry


okay, so i knew about that but didnt know it was a spring. how do i replace it? just like push it out and then push in a new one?
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