That's amazing work. I wonder why they decided to set up the coil overs that way?
Inboard rocker-arm shocks give more airflow past the brakes & radiator exhausts..... on open- wheel cars. With fenders- all it does is block part of the radiator exhaust. I've seen kit-Cobras set up this way as well. Best guess: the crew builds lots of race cars and are familiar with chassis-tuning this design.
Jack,
Rocker style shocks also reduce unsprung weight, since a portion of the weight of a conventional spring/shock assembly is unsprung.
Rocker style shocks also reduce unsprung weight, since a portion of the weight of a conventional spring/shock assembly is unsprung.
Awesome build - thanks for sharing!
Reminds me of the glory days of Pro-Touring Panteras (circa 1980s - even before that term was coined), and of twin-turbo Panteras with radically re-engineered chassis like this:
The pushrod suspension has many advantages for a racecar. A brief history: Rockerarm suspensions became popular in the late 70's with huge packaging advantages driven largely by the latest aero designs. With the advent of ground effects spring-rates then skyrocketed and the "rocker arms" ended up becoming essentially an "un-damped leaf spring". Enter the push and pull rod suspensions. These also allow greater flexibility for optimizing the motion-ratios and curves for better wheel control and with lighter springs, faster spring adjustments/swaps, and the advantages mentioned above.
The pushrod suspension was also used in the post-Pantera Guara (designed by, as I recall reading somewhere, by the Williams F1 team). So seems a natural fit for a new state-of-the-art Pantera chassis.
Although I suspect one of the main factors here is also the racecar-like "cool factor" ... and on that account they nailed it! Indeed one of the coolest Pantera projects I've seen!!
Dave
Reminds me of the glory days of Pro-Touring Panteras (circa 1980s - even before that term was coined), and of twin-turbo Panteras with radically re-engineered chassis like this:
The pushrod suspension has many advantages for a racecar. A brief history: Rockerarm suspensions became popular in the late 70's with huge packaging advantages driven largely by the latest aero designs. With the advent of ground effects spring-rates then skyrocketed and the "rocker arms" ended up becoming essentially an "un-damped leaf spring". Enter the push and pull rod suspensions. These also allow greater flexibility for optimizing the motion-ratios and curves for better wheel control and with lighter springs, faster spring adjustments/swaps, and the advantages mentioned above.
The pushrod suspension was also used in the post-Pantera Guara (designed by, as I recall reading somewhere, by the Williams F1 team). So seems a natural fit for a new state-of-the-art Pantera chassis.
Although I suspect one of the main factors here is also the racecar-like "cool factor" ... and on that account they nailed it! Indeed one of the coolest Pantera projects I've seen!!
Dave
quote:Originally posted by Kjeld Pedersen:
Holy .......
This is a real heavy Build.
I cout realy use what they cut out of this 9000 serie for my rusty project 9053.
It will save me a lot of hours with cutting, bending and welding new panels
Kjeld
Kjeld , all the cut out panels are send to scrap a while ago, it's a waste.
Simon
quote:Originally posted by Kjeld Pedersen:
I cout realy use what they cut out of this 9000 serie for my rusty project 9053.
It will save me a lot of hours with cutting, bending and welding new parts.
Kjeld
Unfortunately I am told they sent it all to scrap some time ago.
Julian
My son, 'Contour Mike', is always on my case about my welds being ugly. Mind you, HE can't weld at all and is always bugging me to do his. Then he goes and polishes them down...or away?
Fine. 'A boy' should have a hobby?
I sent him these pictures of the chassis. Told him he should learn to weld like this? Yea, right? He might take even a basic welding course?
I suspect that this chassis is all aluminum? It doesn't look like steel and doesn't have that titanium tint to it?
Nice welding job though. I'd give them an A-.
The guy in the back does look just like 'Contour Mike'? Maybe he's been holding out on me and is suckering me in to do his welding? Hum? 'Son of a b itch'?
Fine. 'A boy' should have a hobby?
I sent him these pictures of the chassis. Told him he should learn to weld like this? Yea, right? He might take even a basic welding course?
I suspect that this chassis is all aluminum? It doesn't look like steel and doesn't have that titanium tint to it?
Nice welding job though. I'd give them an A-.
The guy in the back does look just like 'Contour Mike'? Maybe he's been holding out on me and is suckering me in to do his welding? Hum? 'Son of a b itch'?
I'm no chassis designer, but I wonder how stiff the frame will be in twist relative front to rear? The center structure looks fairly weak with no diagonals, it has two squareish tubes on the bottom and two round tubes across the top. Perhaps they anticipate the body to take the twisting load.
My bet is that the chassis is made of steel, only because it's welded to the weld table.
Also, I believe that inboard shocks don't reduce the unsprung weight, because if it moves with the wheel, it's unsprung. You're adding the mass of the pivot plus the links involved connecting the wheels to the shock.
John
My bet is that the chassis is made of steel, only because it's welded to the weld table.
Also, I believe that inboard shocks don't reduce the unsprung weight, because if it moves with the wheel, it's unsprung. You're adding the mass of the pivot plus the links involved connecting the wheels to the shock.
John
Thanks Simon and julian.
The builder dont know he Throw around 5000 out When he put all the Inner sheet metal in the junk container.
But it is one of the wildest pantera build i have ever seen.
I realy like it, just a Shame with the old sheet metal.
Kjeld.
The builder dont know he Throw around 5000 out When he put all the Inner sheet metal in the junk container.
But it is one of the wildest pantera build i have ever seen.
I realy like it, just a Shame with the old sheet metal.
Kjeld.
My first impressions were Wow, nice craftsmanship.
But like John, upon looking closer you start questioning the logic behind the structure.
Very well made, but no stiffness.
No diagonal bracing at all.
It would have been much smarter & likely much lighter & less work if it was made from tube.
Once it's clothed in the body the chassis will not be visible.
So why use a structure which is more in tune with a 1930's box chassis than a full tube spaceframe.
(Oh, & I am a chassis designer, it's my living)
regards,
Tony.
But like John, upon looking closer you start questioning the logic behind the structure.
Very well made, but no stiffness.
No diagonal bracing at all.
It would have been much smarter & likely much lighter & less work if it was made from tube.
Once it's clothed in the body the chassis will not be visible.
So why use a structure which is more in tune with a 1930's box chassis than a full tube spaceframe.
(Oh, & I am a chassis designer, it's my living)
regards,
Tony.
I do like the craftsmanship. It is a very aesthetically pleasing chassis. I also very much like the suspension work. One thing that I have an issue with is the placement of the engine. This is obviously a money is no object build so I am wondering why they didnt dry sump the motor and sink it lower between the frame rails. I am almost certain that that engine is higher than even a stock configuration.
Does anybody know if that is a totally new frame design or is it an existing chassis that was tweaked to fit the Pantera?
Anyone know if this build was ever completed? I went and took a look at the website gallery and the build photo are still there but it is not in the completed or current builds gallery unless I overlooked it.
http://roadstershop.com/galleries/nre-pantera/
Did it go somewhere else for completion? I went to NRE and didn't find it there either.
http://www.nelsonracingengines.com/~nelsonracing/
Best,
Kelly
http://roadstershop.com/galleries/nre-pantera/
Did it go somewhere else for completion? I went to NRE and didn't find it there either.
http://www.nelsonracingengines.com/~nelsonracing/
Best,
Kelly
It really is a magnificent build. It would be great to see it finished and running.
It seems to have disappeared entirely however unlikely.
Someone is coveting it.
It seems to have disappeared entirely however unlikely.
Someone is coveting it.
AWESOME build, I would love to find out more and if it will be for sale once completed. Great engineering feat and craftsmanship.
Would be nice to reach out to them to see if they may share more of this project.
Would be nice to reach out to them to see if they may share more of this project.
On a whim I contacted Nelson and asked about the build. They said the owner was having some health issues but they would starting the build up again soon.
The workmanship in the chassis build is fantastic as would be expected from the Roadster Shop. In the end, the only thing Pantera about it will (may?) be the appearance.
Maybe that chassis is going to turn into more of a cage. Too early to say but I think I'm in Tony/Edge's camp though regarding the build. This looks more to be heading in the direction of show car than all out performance car. I'm sure power to weight will be stupid but tough to use that kind of power in a road car and once you pass certain thresholds in power/weight how pleasurable it is to actually drive and quickly it gets around a track will always favor lighter absolute weight. Besides the chassis, the boosted engine adds a lot of overhead and weight and becomes easy to break the TA and difficult to maintain grip. For boosted cars in that power range I'd tend to favor straight axle straight line rides.....they can command your attention.
Best,
Kelly
Maybe that chassis is going to turn into more of a cage. Too early to say but I think I'm in Tony/Edge's camp though regarding the build. This looks more to be heading in the direction of show car than all out performance car. I'm sure power to weight will be stupid but tough to use that kind of power in a road car and once you pass certain thresholds in power/weight how pleasurable it is to actually drive and quickly it gets around a track will always favor lighter absolute weight. Besides the chassis, the boosted engine adds a lot of overhead and weight and becomes easy to break the TA and difficult to maintain grip. For boosted cars in that power range I'd tend to favor straight axle straight line rides.....they can command your attention.
Best,
Kelly
VERY NICELY DONE. I'M SO JEALOUS.
So, if anyone's itching for this baby, she's for sale... Hope it finds a good home. Now this is a car that should be built into a serious supercar or track star!
https://www.facebook.com/nelso...sts/1534547353249579
https://www.facebook.com/nelso...sts/1534547353249579
quote:she's for sale...
Oh, great!!
I just ordered all the kids' Christmas gifts. Meaning, I'm just a little bit cash-shy at the moment.
Otherwise............
Larry
Love the chassis - HATE the flares
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