New Pantera design

There is definitely some Gallardo style lines on the car as I wanted it to retain a typical Italian look and add some weight to the design. If you look at the side profile image below from an early sketch you can see just how different the cars are. This also gives a better idea of how long the car is as it does look quite short from the other angles.

It also shows the problem trying to find a suitable donor car and how far forwards many modern mid engine cars have their cabins. It's obviously done for performance rather than styling.

Hi all

Haven't been on here for a while but I am still continuing to work on the Pantera Concept design. I am still trying to identify a suitable donor or chassis provider which is proving to be more difficult than expected as I want to keep the overall dimensions similar to the original car.

Anyway I thought I'd share my latest concept design with you. I've reworked a lot of front elements of the car and I think it now has a better stance. As always it would be good to get your thoughts



Trev

Trev, the design is visually exciting and your design skills are impressive. Now my opinion

The latest concept is too busy with cut lines, bone lines, vents and grilles. It is betraying the simple concept of the original design, which is a tribute to the female form. Explore enhancing the curvaceousness of the original form while adding some modern flare. Think: Sexy & B2 stealthy, not F-117.

Thanks for the response Dave

I agree with your comments about the design maybe being too busy compared to the original and I think the main area to focus on is along the side flanks of the car as the original had very long plain straight edges. I've tried a couple more ideas below, so let me know what you think

Stealth - This design has less shut lines, sills are folded in at the bottom as per the original car and has much less going on in the design. Also I tried something different with the tail of the car and like the idea of maybe melting the shape more like a Ferrari 458 but I am not sure if this moves too far away from the original.

Hybrid - This design is a mix of the original and stealth design, so cleaner side lines, no side vent etc but retaining the high back/tail, bonnet vent and outward facing sills



Let me know which you prefer or what elements work/don't work for you guys.

Trev

Like the original of the three, the second and third look naked.

great skills
cj

quote:

Originally posted by TrevS:
Thanks for the response Dave

I agree with your comments about the design maybe being too busy compared to the original and I think the main area to focus on is along the side flanks of the car as the original had very long plain straight edges. I've tried a couple more ideas below, so let me know what you think

Stealth - This design has less shut lines, sills are folded in at the bottom as per the original car and has much less going on in the design. Also I tried something different with the tail of the car and like the idea of maybe melting the shape more like a Ferrari 458 but I am not sure if this moves too far away from the original.

Hybrid - This design is a mix of the original and stealth design, so cleaner side lines, no side vent etc but retaining the high back/tail, bonnet vent and outward facing sills



Let me know which you prefer or what elements work/don't work for you guys.

Trev

My vote goes for "Hybrid". I like the cleaner lines, and I really think the roof line of a Pantera is too important to be changed as much as in "Curved-stealth".

I would love to see this third version with a more simple front spoiler. More you can simplify, more I will agree. Good work!

I think your skills are fantastic as an artist. I could never do that. Everyone has a view point so here is mine.

I think to retain some of the Pantera look I would.

1. Lower the front bumper line a little.
2. Lower the front of the windshild line a little
4. Flatten out the top of the front fender-hoodline a little
5. Raise the rear of the cockpit slightly to level it out just a little.
6. Square the back of the roofline/deck just a little
7. Enlarge the presents of the side vents behind the side window slightly.

These sugestions may all be wrong but I would love to see the alterations.

Trevor of all your designs I feel the white one is the best. To me one of the distinctive design features of the Pantera is the body line that goes around the whole car. This is the main reason I removed the rear bumpers from my car, they just mess up that line. If you could incorporate that type of body line with possibly an arrow shaped rear vent it might better reflect the Pantera vs. a variation of the lines of the other cars pictured.

Tony

quote:

Trevor of all your designs I feel the white one is the best. To me one of the distinctive design features of the Pantera is the body line that goes around the whole car. This is main reason I removed the rear bumpers from my car, they just mess up that line. If you could incorporate that type of body line with possibly, an arrow shaped rear vent it might better reflect the Pantera vs. a variation of the lines of the other cars pictured.

I agree completely...

Trevor, I'm not a designer, just a motorhead. That said, I think you will have trouble with a 'cabin-forward' adaption to the Pantera. Especially if you also include giant-izing the wheels. With 245-size tires (the max possible width with Tjaarda's original design) on 15" wheels, the front inner fender panels intrude somewhat into the drivers compartment. Including "modern" conestoga-sized wheels plus a cabin-forward style can only happen if the wheelbase is stretched- slowing down the handling, or widening the whole car for sufficient front wheel space.
And that also carries penalties. I followed a Testarossa on a 2 lane street thru downtown Carmel, CA one time, and the driver had trouble keeping on his side of the center line while also missing parked cars. The later wide-body Pantera styings were never my favorite change from the '71. FWIW-

Thanks for the comments guys, all really useful. I actually spent some more time today implementing some of your suggestions and the latest version now includes a new side profile and the front splitter pushed back under the nose which itself is now slightly higher and longer.

I agree the side profile is the most accurate in shape to the original car and the plan is to retain this silhouette. I think as I am not an illustrator I sometimes struggle to get it to look exactly right from a 3/4 angle which is why the car looks a bit different in shape.

As for the donor, using an original Pantera is probably not going to be the best option as you state. At the moment I want the car to look right before thinking too much about the build as basing the car on a donor is likely to corrupt the design and you guys will moan it looks nothing like a Pantera

One other thing to note on the latest version of the rear of the car has a slice in it. I like the idea of the having a gap to channel airflow through and increase rear downforce without having a rear wing. This seems to be a development other car manufacturers are doing at the moment. From a side on perspective you won't notice the channel. Think it would be nice to have some modern innovations to the design but I can see a lot of you guys not liking it. When we get into 3D over the next few weeks it will be easier to explore these kind of options.

Let me know what you think to this version as I am hoping to push the designs over to a proper car designer next week to make a real world version and amend the design accordingly.



Trev

Hi Trev. Great work, but have you tried on a wide body format?

Hi Trev,
While I agree the front chin is a bit busy, what bothers me the most, and it is the same in all three versions, is the curvature of the hood from the windshield to the front. What I love about the original (and by the way, why I am not a fan of widebody Panteras) is the angular actually triangular popularly known at the time as wedge shaped front and rear ends, from the roof to the back via the buttresses, and from the base of the windshield to the front bumperettes and then back under the chin. Bring the line more directly to the bumpers rather than a trip upstream and then downstream via a radius. I also prefer some detail on the hood as you have done on the original and the hybrid. Amongst the three concepts, if I had to choose, the original would be my choice with a more deliberate hood line. Also, I'm not crazy about the wheels.

Thanks for comments tberg. Just for you I've done a version with a wedge shape front end and a lot of the curves around the nose removed/reduced.

I'll also work on the front splitter area more when the design gets into 3D. I think this just illustrates the general position as my design will have to incorporate a much lower front splitter than the original to reduce lift which I believe was an issue with the original cars.

Anyway here is the latest version which I think is again another step closer.



Also Dave2811 mentioned to think about a stealth bomber so I thought I do a stealth black version for him.



Thoughts on this version?

Trev

quote:

Originally posted by TrevS:

Also Dave2811 mentioned to think about a stealth bomber so I thought I do a stealth black version for him.

Cool!

All these designs are very exciting, however, at some point in time you are going to need a full 3D engineering workup that packages a human driver, suspension and drivetrain. That may reveal limitation to the artistic renderings.

Having worked for a concept car manufacturer, I have seen many examples when the art doesn't always translate into real world.

love it, is there a side profile,
i love the wheels, so everone has their own taste.
i guess one of the things i really like about the original is the cars bum, being from the b pillar back its round and like the song goes, i like big butts. strangly enough that only apllies to cars.
it may just be the 45 degrees front view but i'd like to see a little more deepth in the reat trunk lid from the roof line to the rear of the car. as mentioned this may just be an angel thing and may show different as a profile.
whatever i say, i think you are very talented.
I'm restoring my car at a shop that has two men that are quite capable of turing your vision into reality.

keep up the great work.

cj

I like the new changes on the front end of the car. The flatter lines look more correct. Great job!

Trev,
These latest iterations are much better looking to me as well as more true to the heritage. I think they look terrific. The area behind the window is a little unclear to me, is it an air scoop that feeds cool air to the engine or what, it's hard to tell and appears that it would collect a lot of water in the rain. Can you explain?

quote:

Originally posted by tberg:
The area behind the window is a little unclear to me, is it an air scoop that feeds cool air to the engine or what, it's hard to tell and appears that it would collect a lot of water in the rain. Can you explain?

The rear aero area works by channeling air through the bodywork to help create rear downforce. I think it's called a flying buttress rear b pillar, it's something ferrari used on the 599GTB. The idea is that from most angles you don't see it. Yes the design would have to be carefully shaped to ensure the device works properly and is also not a water trap



Trev

I've tweeked the design further as the nose just wasn't looking right. It needed to be wider as it felt like it was being pinched at the front. This this looks much better

Wow, you are very talented and and impressively secure as an individual to accept the feedback and adjust constructively with it.

I thought the area front of the front wheels looked odd to me and your wider frontal approach seemed to address it.

On the stock design, I also like the larger rear end look with the mismatched tire size that gives the car an appearance of being on its haunches. Thus, while it is obviously the computers attempt to show depth, the front wheel/tire looks to large relative to the rear.

I vote "yes" on the wheel design.

quote:

Originally posted by TrevS:
I've tweeked the design further as the nose just wasn't looking right. It needed to be wider as it felt like it was being pinched at the front. This this looks much better

I like this one very much. is there a side view. I hope it still looks like the side view of the white one.

I absolutely love this, great job!!!!!! The front end looks very, very good. I do think the rear 3/4 of the car looks a little Lancia Stratos however. Throw a wing on it for good measure!!!!!!!

Hi all

I've been slowly working on a few more ideas and have another concept to show you. As always if you can give me some feedback on what you like/don't that would be great.




Trev

Hi Trev,

Most of your drawings are 3/4 shots from the front. The Pantera is actually better known for the iconic 3/4 shot from the rear as the rear decklid is what really makes the Pantera unique.

Most people I have talked too love to see the car from the rear.

Regarding your latest drawing. Not sure this one is going in the right direction. The thing that is iconic about the Pantera is how the roof flows into the decklid as if it is from one stroke of the pen. The decklid in this picture doesn't flow correctly.

Still a cool design and I like it, I just don't think it captures the Pantera all that well. I like some of your earlier designs better.

Of course, just my opinion. Everyones tastes are different and I complement you and the fantastic work that you do!

Take care, Scott

I like it very much too. I agree that the roofline going from the windscreen all the way to the back is a trademark design feature. Also, I remember reading somewhere, that Tom Tjaarda have said that the gills behind the rear window was a key element of the design. All lines spread out from there. For that reason he also should have said that he did not like the effect of removing the gills. I see you have the gills in there - maybe make them more pronounced?

Thanks for the comments guys. I hear what your saying about the rear 3/4 being the most iconic angle and the flowing lines not showing through in the latest design. Remember these are only amateur sketches from myself to help determine a style guide so lines and shapes won't be perfect until I hand them over to the professional designers.

I've included a line study below which I've been working from which initially came from the side profile design that I think has had the most positive response. I think we can agree that the side profile has a very distinct pantera look and the lines are very similar to the original car. This is the profile I will submit as a style guide for the side of the car but I am trying to play around with some ideas for the front and rear still using the same profile lines.



What do you think to this as an overall concept if the lines etc were matched to the side profile?

Yes, I see what you mean. I like the side view! That looks very nice.

The rear view/decklid need some work as you mentioned. As I mentioned earlier, I think the decklid is one of the most important areas to get right. I think it looks very good from the side view but the rear view is off. Not sure what the issue is. I think comparing an actual Pantera to that drawing will give you the clues you need to make changes.

Still great work!!!