Nice!

yes a nice unmolested car. Good luck to the new buyer.

Ron

Hello:
Has anyone seen this car or did a Carfax on the VIN? Just wondering in case it comes up again. Almost seems to good to be true. That should be a 35K car!!!

It may look like swiss cheese under that shiny paint! But usually the rest of the car is not preserved that well. I would never recommend buying a car sight unseen.

But based on the pictures this may have been a good gamble.

Shame on the bidders that didn't have the balls to hit buy it now

True.....but the car appears to have good documents and the car looks good. Would like to have seen an engine bay pic. Even for $29K...not a bad starting point for a Pantera. It seems these things are doing $35K+ all day long. And with 7K+ built there are alot out there if you look in the right places. Surprised nobody has ever seen this car.

CarFax doesn't work on older VIN numbers.

I was the high bidder on this car (reserve not met) before it went with buy-it-now.

I was waiting for pictures before committing to it; the seller sent me some engine bay and undercarriage pictures which showed some rust. An experienced body man looked at the pictures and said it looks like surface rust, but someone would have to go and look at the car in the metal. Then it went.

The day after it went, I was informed by the seller that the buyer reneged (Gee, I wonder if I have to buy it if I click here?). You can try the contact info on the eBay item if you are interested.

(I found a car in Canada; MUCH cheaper than paying currency conversion, import duty, excise, and all taxes. Still working on it; I'll post when it's mine.)

Marcus

Buying on pictures is a gamble. Most of us know that gambling is generally not profitable but is very exciting. This car being Red, Stock, and Unmolested looked very exciting. It may have been rust free. However the car being from Ohio, it seems that the odds are it could have some rust issues making this car not such a good deal.

I would not recommend anybody buy a used car sight unseen. That my friends was learned the hard way.

I bought my Pantera sight unseen. If I would have gone to look at it I probably would not have bought this car. The price was right and I don't feel like I got taken. I got what I paid for.

Yeah I saw some of those engine pics too....I know why they were not put on ebay. Looks like pretty bad rust if you zoom in and look at the pics. The engine really needed a good respray....and looked like alot of oil leaks under as well. Would probably take at least $10K to get the car presentable so it would be a $39K car then so I don't know. Think there are other deals out there. I'll probably still go look at it. I'm just not sure.....

These cars CANNOT be bought sight unseen. 3 years ago there was a beautiful silver 71 pushbutton on ebay, I emailed the seller and asked to see the car before bidding, it was in NY. A fridge magnet wouldn't stick anywhere on the car not even on the roof, not to mention that the roof had an angle of about 1 1/2 inches from one side to the other. From the pics it looked like a 40K car easy, in person it might have needed 40K in repairs. Take the time to check them your pocket will thank you. BTW car sold for 27K sight unseen. Rob6145

I purchased my Pantera without first seeing the car and I've been repairing rust and rot for months! But I can fix it cheaply, just tons of fabricating. Rust is hard to repair and likely on most cars in wet climates! I would have passed on my present car if I looked at it first.

There is no such thing as a Pantera (or any Detomaso) without some sort of rust, somewhere.
If you hold out for one, you will never buy one, because it doesn't exist.

Guys here are more pics...what do you think?

More....

More...see some bad rust in this one.....

Oil Leak....

IS this the EBay original car mentioned at the beggining of this string?

quote:

Originally posted by cquirk:
IS this the EBay original car mentioned at the beggining of this string?

Yes, Turns out this car is not the exception. It is a typical used North Eastern car.

Yes...same car

There probably was a reason these pics were not included on ebay, maybe why first buy it now buyer backed out....makes it look more like a 20K car at the most....

Wow,

If the pictures preceeding this page are of the same ebay car that starts the thread......all I can say is wow.

The ebay auction seems to portray what is a reasonably straight, very stock car. As others have noted in this thread, pictures can be deceiving. I suppose the same could apply to the engine bay and undercarriage pictures. However, based on what I can see in these pictures, I'd say that car would likely have a lot or rot and other issues.

I've looked at quite a few Pantera's, and I've never seen one that shows in the engine bay and undercarriage like this one that didn't also have extensive structural and sheetmetal issues. I agree with the others; never buy sight unseen, especially on ebay.

Seems like one of the classic examples where all the effort has been placed on making it cosmetically a good 30 footer (or maybe closer), but when you open the hood and crawl under the car.....yikes!

If the car is owned by someone on this forum, I mean no offense, but there is a lot of work there to get that car into shape, and I would not value it like it shows from the curb.

I remember when I was searching for the Pantera.
I don't remember how I found it but there was one for sale in Allentown.
I talked to the guy on the phone.
It was within my price range.
I asked for pictures which he mailed me.
It seemed worth the trip to see it.
When I got there it had rust coming through the corners of the door skins. It had rust holes though the skin behind the doors (front bottom of quarters) and the ends of the rocker panels.
I couldn't help but compare the car to the pictures.
It was like they weren't the same car.
When the owner asked me how I liked the car I said I have all I can do to keep from killing you. I drove here 3 hours to see this?
I said these pics aren't the same car. He said yes they are, they are just 5 years old.
I didn't want the car. He said make me an offer. I said under no conditions do I want that car at any price.

I think all original driver Panteras will look like these pictures posted here.
This car is dirty and things like the original "undercoating" need to be stripped off.
From what I am observing I think that this is what you get for around $30,000. A driver.
It sounds like what some of you expect for that is more like a $60,000 car. When you look at the $60,000 car you chuckle and say its only worth $30,000. It can't be both ways in my eyes.

What I don't understand is how some will argue that after "investing" upwards of $100,000 in thier own cars that they will insist that you should be able to get a good one for $30,000?

I have a "friend" that buys and sells a large number of "Shelby cars". I don't talk to him much anymore.
I got tired of his position he always has that when he owns it it's worth a million and when you have it, it's worth shit.

Again, I don't see how it can be both ways, but that's just me and obviuosly I'm very screwed up.

I had almost the exact same experience as PanteraDoug when I went hunting for my Pantera except I drove 10 hours to see a car that was not as describe after many phone calls and e-mail exchanges. After probing around the car some, it didn't take me long to determine the car was not as advertised. I got my deposit back and was ready to head back home without the beast. It's a long story, but the owner eventually made me an offer I could not refuse. So, I ended up with my project Pantera. Not even close to being as bad as the engine bay and underside pictures show of the subject eBay car, but a project nonetheless--good enough to work on in the winter and drive it all summer for the past 4 years or so. As many on this forum have said--buyer beware...

Hi all. I am i on LONG ISLAND and i looked at quite a few car's before i found mine and i didn't see any that were nearly this bad so i don't think this is the "typical N.E. car. Of course that was 18 year's ago but i don't think thing's have changed that much! At least i hope not. Obviously this car got in this condition by lot's of neglect and is being sold by someone who is either cluless or trying to get over on some poor un-suspecting person.
JOHN.

quote:

There is no such thing as a Pantera (or any Detomaso) without some sort of rust, somewhere.
If you hold out for one, you will never buy one, because it doesn't exist.

Not true. As long as a little hidden surface rust is acceptable, I now believe there are rust free Panteras out there. My 2511 shows no external rust nor obscure evidence of under-surface rust. Now, it WAS a full bare metal media blast restoration at Quella's with less than 5K post restoration miles on it when I bought it (original miles of 24K). But when I wrecked it and things got opened up, there was no rust of mention showing.

I have talked with other owners who also have rust free cars, some of them unrestored originals.

But in general, I too describe these cars to shopping newbies as 'rust prone Italian hot rods" and advise them to proceed accordingly.

Larry

this is a shot of the lower driver side windshield/A-column of 2511:

and another of the inside of the front valance area:

quote:

Originally posted by LF - TP 2511:
[QUOTE]There is no such thing as a Pantera (or any Detomaso) without some sort of rust, somewhere.
If you hold out for one, you will never buy one, because it doesn't exist.

Not true. As long as a little hidden surface rust is acceptable,

Rust is rust. If you prefer to call it a little hidden surface discoloration or whatever it doesn't change what it is.
The Pantera has in most cases too thin a gauge metal in it's monoqoc and it should have been vat dipped in a rustoleum type of primer.
Like the Porsches of the era, no galvanized steel was used. Early 70's 911's are prone to rust as well because of this.

My point was not to call the car a rust bucket. I don't really believe that it is.
I was trying to point out that people tend to overreact to rust.

The Panteras skins are actually on the easy side to fix.
In most places the contours of the car permitsheet metal patches to be installed well.

The "trickiest" spot is the rear upright. Also if you have a bad front or rear deck they are next to impossible to reapair and new metal ones are very expensive.

I'll take a shot at the time frame and say that if you own a Pantera for about ten years you are going to need to deal with it or stated differently you are going to need to deal with it about every ten years.

quote:

Again, I don't see how it can be both ways, but that's just me and obviuosly I'm very screwed up.

No Doug. I am with you on this one bud. If rust scares you, either don't buy a Pantera, or be prepared to cough up some major scratch. Don't even try and talk the guy down who just spent a hundred grand on his car and is only asking sixty for it. Cause you will just piss him off.

quote:

Now, it WAS a full bare metal media blast restoration at Quella's with less than 5K post restoration miles on it when I bought it (original miles of 24K).

So where you going to sell that car for 30K?? How much is a bare metal restoration anyway? If it is only a few thousand bucks, I will buy up rusty Panteras for cheap, spend a few grand on them and turn around and sell them for big bucks. They will make a TV show about me called "Flip this Pantera".

Gee, I feel fortunate that I found an honest seller. I flew to San Francisco to purchase my car. The car was everything an more that was described. Inspected it, bought it and took it to the shippers the same day. I can imagine what I would have felt had it turned out to be a wasted trip!

I was lucky as well with my car. It was as represneted on line and I did go to look at it before i bought it. I can' t imagine plunking down 30k + for a car sight unseen! Even 20k! You have to remember these are USED cars and as such buyer beware. There are a lot of honest sellers that take the time to properly represent the car but you as the buyer also need to be comfortable with what you can and cant repair. I knew I could fix the mechanincals but body work would be harder so I got a good body car that needed some mechanical. And like all used cars, it needed more mechanical than originally anticipated.
The good news is they are an auful lot of fun when you get done!

I can describe my buying experience as well.....plain lucky.

I was fairly patient and looked at six cars over the course of a year before I bought. Mine showed up in my local classified section (in small town Iowa no less) less than hour from where I live and right on the way to where I was driving to see another Pantera.

14,500 miles on the odometer and believable at that. Very little under coating on the car and almost none in the engine bay. I could see everything. After a drive and an hour of inspection which included a view from the pit in a local oil change shop, I paid $24k and drove it home an hour after I laid my eyes on it. It was publicly for sale less than 6 hours when I bought it. That was 5 years ago. None of the other cars I looked at were even close, and all were priced higher.

A chance encounter? -Lucky? Better lucky than good as they say and happy to be a member of the club.

Kelly

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