No fuel at carb, beginner home mechanic question.

Sounds like what I went through a few months back and it turned out to be the fuel pump. If it's the original pump and the car has been sitting for long periods of time (what Pantera hasn't), the diaphragm within is probably bad by now. Just because it won't PUMP fuel, doesn't mean it will leak fuel through (not much anyway — mine didn't).

For about $35 bucks you can get a new fuel pump and see for sure. The only down-side it it is not the easiest part to access. On the up-side, you'll have a new fuel pump and one less failure-in-waiting for the future.

My suggestion would be,.... 1. Get fire extinguisher and keep it handy. 2. empty/drain the fuel tank and use a 5 gallon can or a boat tank. Get the car pumping and running w/the new fuel pump as Mark has suggested and then deal w/the tank. (in a well ventillated area, check for oil pressure right away, watch for all gauges to react...etc..

The fuel does not draw out directly from the bottom of the tank like a motorcycle (gravity feed). The fuel feed line starts at the bottom of the tank, but runs straight up to the top of the tank where it exits and then is run down again to the fuel pump. You will not get excessive drainage if you remove this line...just what is in the portion of line from the fuel pump to the top of the tank.
If you want to check fuel flow you will need a section of rubber hose that you can fit over the end of the fuel line, run out the bottom of the car, and over to a fuel can. Then you can do the suck and spit until you siphon some flow.
You probably need a new fuel pump. If your engine is stock or mildly warmed over, you do not need a fancy pump. You sure don't need the expense and noise of an electric pump. A stock replacement will do. Don't buy a Holley mechanical pump. I had one that lasted about 5000 miles before it gave up. Opened it up to see if I could fix something and discovered that the center push rod had broken away from the activating rod. I got on the internet to a couple of performance Ford bulletin boards and found that Holly mechanical pumps are total pieces of junk with an embarassing failure rate. Not work buying or repairing.
Stock replacements can be a bitch too. The one I bought to replace the Holley blew oil out the overflow hole...directly onto the header!!! The engine bay was engulfed in smoke...I looked like a dirty gray comet with a billowing black tail hurtling down the highway. All I could figure is the internal oil seal was installed backwards, or not at all. I'm going for backwards because it took about 30 miles for it to start. Anyway, the next fuel pump (identical to the screwed up one) worked fine and is still working.
George suggested a fuel pump at the time mine went south. I needed the car for a planned trip, so I didn't have time to order one in, but you might check past posts around July of this past year for his recommendation.
If you decide to replace yours, the top bolt can be a real bear to get to. It's tempting to try and remove it from under the car, but take the time to remove the firewall bulkhead inside the car. You still have limited access to the top bolt, but it is visable, close at hand, and makes things a lot easier in the long run.
You're on the right track...keep eliminating things one step at a time and you'll get there.
Mooso

Your right MOOSO they are JUNK! I had one on my newly restored 69 "R" code mach 1 and it failed within the first 50 mile's. Thank GOD i smelled the fuel pissing out all over the place before it caught on fire!
JOHN.

quote:

Originally posted by 72red:
Should I take the line off at the tank and flush both ways? All suggestions welcome. Also - what is the purpose of the small blue tank in the upper right front of the engine bay that connects to the gas tank via a fuel line - just a breather for the gas tank to prevent vacuum? Thanks again for any help.

Nathan

One other thing: if they are stock, change ALL your fuel and vent hoses (and clamps, of course) for new ones. Nothing fancy required here, but a solid move to help reduce fire risk. You are correct that the hose to the canister is to vent fumes but it will not have any impact on the engine running.

I am fairly certain a new fuel pump will cure this. There is a small chance there is some problem with the fuel pick-up within the tank, but since that part is hard to come by and not as likely to fail as an old pump, I'd leave that alone unless the pump doesn't help.

Good luck!

The OEM is a Carter pump, right? Mine is still original, but putting out a paltry 3.5 of pressure. I would like to replace it but other than the crap Holly/Mr. Gasket what is there?
The one specialty after market pump is $ 300 (?) and may require modification to install.
So what do you guys recommend?

I just used a New stock Carter replacement pump when I had my engine warmed over. Works great! About $30/40 bucks? Should be good too at least 400hp, maybe a little more?

Mine was a Carter (looked EXACTLY like my stock unit). I bought it from a truck parts supplier since a friend told me that getting stock parts for a Cleveland was much easier there than at a Ford dealer (Lots of trucks apparently used the Cleveland) — and he was right. The local Ford dealers just went blank when I asked for one. The truck place said: "Yup. Got one right here. $36.00".

quote:

So what do you guys recommend?

If you want to move away from the stock/OEM replacement unit for any reason the RobbMC pumps are about the best you can get. $160 for the up to 550HP version, follow the link below.

RobbMC 351C 550HP pump

I got a Mallory pump - looks exactly like the original pump except that it's chromed.
I didn't really want a chromed one - but it was the only mechanical pump I could find.

The first one had pin hole in the casting a sprayed fuel all over the side of the block.

The replacement works and doesn't leak.

At times like this we go to the junk yard and find an old 80's Mitsubishi. They invariably have a solid state electric pump underneath next to the fuel tank - and i've never had any trouble with them at all - unlike the SU version. Unsure how much hp they'll handle though, but they're always useful in the workshop if it can't handle the flow.

Phil

Thanks guys for all your input. I have a carter pump (<$30) waiting at a local auto parts store. JEGS.com has a chromed pump for Clevelands which I think is around $30 plus shipping. Will try to get replacement fuel lines and clamps, thanks for the suggestion.

Sorry to revive this boring thread but if anyone has suggestions I would appreciate it. I have installed a new fuel pump - Carter. I verified that I can siphon gas though the fuel line that runs down to the pump. I hook up the line and crank the engine and I get no fuel out of the pump. Is it possible that I installed the pump wrong - it didn't seem too difficult but I have never done it before. Does the pump need to be primed somehow - I figured the pump would be capable of creating a vacuum and clearing any air in the system but now I'm not so sure. I cranked the engine till the battery ran down, maybe 1-2 minutes on 2 occasions. Any advice appreciated.

You may have a problem with the fuel pump eccentric. Slightly loosen the pump mounting
and crank the engine. If eccentric is functioning you should feel movement in the pump body. Bad news is if the eccentric needs attention the timing cover needs to be pulled. Also the eccentric might not be rotating with the cam gear. This is bad because it means your cam bolt might be loose.
good luck!!! Mark #3461

Carefully pour fuel into the vent tube on the carb... pump the throttle, see if it jets fuel... if it does, start the car and run it for a sec on the fuel in the bowl..

Thanks guys. I will try both. Should the pump be able to pull gas from the tank if the pump has no fuel in it?

I used a Mallory mechanical pump (which I think is pretty much the same) and I didn't have to prime it to get it to work.

Merry christmas

Try removing the inlet line to the pump off from the tank. With the engine turning over and your thumb over the end of the hose you should feel the suction of the pump trying to work. If not look at the pump or the eccentric area for the problem. Low budget test but it works. Don't particulary like pouring fuel into a carb, took a while for the hair to grow back last time I tried that in the early 70's. heh..heh...

Oh yeah, I've seen a few burn down back in the day... if you use the vent tube then at least you are reasonably safe with a timed engine and air cleaner... It may prime right up and run if he can run it off the bowls for a minute... It's quick and easy way to fire the engine off and be reasonably safe... (Fire extinguisher)...lol..

Double check and be sure that you have the fuel hoses connected correctly, i.e., inlet to inlet, outlet to outlet.

The eccentrics normally don't cause problems but one in a 1,000 will have the drive finger break off. I had that happen on a 302.

Normally the pump on the Cleveland is a pain in the butt to install because it wants to be installed with the eccentric on the high part of the cam and places pressure on the lever arm of the pump.

The tension is a little mutch to hold with one hand while tightening the nut.
Be carefull while tightening down. The pump housings are zinc castings and you can break them without much effort.

If you hook up a remote starter switch you can kick the engine a 1/4 turn or so while you are holding pressure to the pump and you will feel the eccentric pumping the lever up and down.

That is how to confirm that the eccentric is good without needlessly taking off the timing chain cover.

The way to take off the timing chain cover on a cleveland you need to lower the oil pan in the front. If the pan has never been off then you don't want to have to do that. If you do then you may as well remove the entire pan and do a new gasket.

Like I said, make sure it is 100% positive that the eccentric is no good before you go to change it.

Good luck and Merry Ho Ho Ho to you all.

Well, I removed the pump and pumped it by hand probably about 5 times until fuel shot out. I then reattached the pump loosely and put my hand on the casting while I cranked the engine and noted that it rocked upward (downward pressure on the lever arm) as the engine turned over. After tightening the bolt and nut I cranked the engine again squirting gas on the floor. I reattached the fuel line to the carb and then started the car! IT RUNS!!!!!!!!!!!! I blew mouse droppings and nest material all over my garage door (from the nests in the exhaust tips that I couldn't reach with the shop vac. It smoked like crazy because of all the WD40 I sprayed in the cylinders to get the engine freed up. My wife fell over in the living room trying to get to the garage and my 6 year old woke up from bed. The engine responded well to throttle input. What a great sound! Thanks everyone for all your help to this point.

quote:

IT RUNS!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just love a happy ending.



Larry

Thanks Larry, the first light in a long tunnel.