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This is a press release I received. Enjoy. And now, for something completely different .....



FIRST PRE-PRODUCTION ALL-ELECTRIC APTERA IS COMPLETE;
FULL PRODUCTION AND DELIVERY TO BEGIN IN OCTOBER

The 2e, Aptera’s two-seat, three-wheel vehicle, gets the equivalent of more than 200 miles per gallon

Contact: PCGCampbell – Jeff Green (310) 224-4961 (e-mail: aptera@pcgcampbell.com)

Web Site: Aptera Motors



VISTA, Calif. (Jan. 21, 2009) -- The initial pre-production all-electric model from Southern California vehicle manufacturer Aptera Motors had rolled out the door of its Vista, Calif. production facility. Known as the 2e, the brilliant white two-seat commuter vehicle is the first of a burgeoning fleet of Aptera vehicles that will undergo internal and external evaluations for fit, finish, performance and durability as preparation for full production in October.



The pre-production vehicle is equipped with a lithium-based battery and features a number of vehicle enhancements such as front wheel drive, aerodynamic side-mounted mirrors and wider door openings that make getting in and out of the vehicle much easier than with previous designs. The aerodynamically-inspired 2e will go from zero to 60 in under 10 seconds, top out at 90 mph and get the equivalent of more than 200 miles-per-gallon based on a standard EPA driving cycle. Though the vehicle is still nine months from completion, Aptera has already received nearly 4,000 deposits and the 2e is attracting its share of accolades, including recognition from TIME magazine as one of the “Best Inventions of 2008” and USA WEEKEND’s proclamation as one of “2009’s most intriguing innovations”.



“We’re getting close to finalizing our final prime-time vehicle, but there’s still a lot of work to accomplish to manufacture an ultra-high efficiency vehicle,” says Aptera President and CEO Paul Wilbur, who boasts more than 25 years of product planning and development, marketing and finance experience for Ford, Chrysler and other manufacturers. “Just look at the 2e and you understand that it’s an aerodynamic marvel. We now have to make the final refinements in the upcoming months, squeezing out every ounce of positive performance, and then we’ll have the first safe, affordable all-electric vehicle on the market.”



With an expected cost between $25,000 and $45,000, and a driving range of more than 100 miles-per-charge, initial sales will solely be in California, with plans to distribute the Aptera to the rest of the United States by late 2010.

“With the 2e set to hit the streets later this year, and with additional models already on our drawing board, Aptera will create some 1,500 jobs and more than 100,000 vehicles in the next five years,” says Aptera founder Steve Fambro. “We hope to change everyday driving forever by offering incomparable mileage and innovative technology at prices people can afford.”

About Aptera
Aptera Motors, founded in 2004 to develop and build the safest, most energy efficient commuter vehicles on the road, begins volume production of its first vehicle, the all-electric 2e, in 2009. Utilizing streamlined aerodynamic design, lightweight composite structures and unique drive systems, Aptera delivers vehicles that are attainable and efficient. The company operates two Southern California facilities in north San Diego County, where it designs, engineers and manufactures the vehicles and their composite systems to create an exceptionally strong, sleek body.
Last edited {1}
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You take the BTU content of a gallon of gasoline and multiply that times 778.2 which wll give you ft/lbs of energy. You then find how much total energy it takes to move the vehicle one mile, devide that into how many foot pounds available, which you calculated previously, times the efficiency of the electric motor, and it will tell you how many mile you could go on that given amount of energy.
Or you could just pull an impresive number out of your ass to sell more cars. Smiler
The "average" driver (whoever the heck that is) drives about 200 to 230 miles each week. (equivalent to 10,000 to 12,000 miles per year). Gas is currently about $2.00 per gallon. If this average driver's car gets average fuel economy (20 MPG) then he spends $20 to $22 per week on fuel.

I would assume the same driver would use $2 of electricity to recharge the aptera each week.

Frankly, I wouldn't be caught dead in a car that looks like that. that's a car for students, women and Elton John.
quote:
I would assume the same driver would use $2 of electricity to recharge the aptera each week.


I gotta start buying my power from California then.

I couldn't buy one them babies anyway, all the extra demand for power is gonna mean we'll have to build more coal fired power stations and that's just gonna pollute the atmosphere with CO2 emissions. Heck I can drive the Pantera, do that now, cut out the middle man and have a sh*t load more fun Big Grin

Julian
quote:
Originally posted by Cuvee:
Does this little car/motorcycle/airplane cockpit type vehicle have to pass our Government crash tests like the real cars have too?
Curt


This is a personal pet peeve of mine. Why are there double (and triple) standards? Smaller cars have less stringent tests to pass. Why? Is it going to make a difference what government standard was used when my 8000# F250 slams into your 1000# Smart For Two at 80 mph???? Do people "feel" better that it got a five star rating for a sub compact. Are people that dumb? Or how about the lowered standards for women. I'm not being sexist here but if a male fire fighter has to be able to dead carry a 200 pound person down a ladder as a requirement for the job why is it that a woman only has to carry 150??? What do you tell the 200 pound guy trapped on the fourth floor of a burning building "Sorry you're gonna die today cuz she's the only firefighter available right now and doesn't have to met the same standards".....In fact if you really think about that it's sexist by saying women aren't capable of lifting 200 pounds.

People need to start thinking for themselves and asking what makes sense and what is logical. Government needs to start governing less.

Sheep nothing but sheep........

Boy that was a tangent. Off the box now.
I came up behind one of these the other day driving home on westbound I-70 & couldn't figure out what the he** it was? Confused Didn't have a name on it or badges of any type but I figured I'd see it soon in one of my car magazines. Sure enough, not long after spotting it there were articles in both Road & Track and Autoweek magazines about it. Looks like the manufacturer is getting some real life road miles on a pre-production model. Until they get thousands of these on the roads (?) they're likely to get as many stares as my Pantera Eeker
I really like the Aptera. Jaime and I have had a deposit on one for about a year. No, it won't replace the Pantera, but I don't want/expect it to. I do think it looks cool, and the idea of driving it to work most of the time, and never, ever, having to pull it into a gas station is awesome!

One added benefit of the three wheel deal, is that yeah, it's technically classified as a motorcycle, so you can drive it in the carpool lane without having a passenger in the car.

Say what you will, but this car couldn't come soon enough for me. Smiler
I had the pleasure of driving this:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/automotive_news/3423261.html

Here is my personal evaluation:
It goes like stink in a straight line (much faster then a normal Elise).
It corners like a brick.
It brakes...no it doesn't...shit...ahhh thank god that guy moved aside.
...and I can use it only 2 times a week. Why you ask?
Well because my round trip to the office is 100km (Urban and highway). So on day Two the recharging is not complete as a result I can not make the round trip a second time on day two. On day three I can use it again, unfortunatly I have an outside meeting another 40 km away which means I am not sure I am going to make it home (The stated mileage is ehhh "enthousiastic").
It has the equal amount of storage space then a pocketless jeans on a girl one size too big.
And then there is that issue of sub zero temperatures and the way batteries react to that.
Have Aptera call me; I am a briljant road tester.

Oh and before I forget. It runs out of juice on track after about 50km. And I swear it is a heavy piece of equipment to push aside.

Michel
quote:
I do think it looks cool, and the idea of driving it to work most of the time, and never, ever, having to pull it into a gas station is awesome!


I do hope you are able to do that. If you do they indeed made a perfectly good car. On you solar pannels. I am building a house that stands free of public gas/electricity (I do not care of CO2 as I am not a believer that we have that muchg impact on climiate). I need one micro windmill and 32m2 of solar pannels to run 80% of my electricity myself (a 2 people household and one dog). The other 20% I have to get at the electtricity company. Take a guess at how much m2 I need to also recharge my electric car...

We are not there yet. But besides that I also think it looks cool.

Michel
quote:
Originally posted by MacMan:
Yeah, we actually had a deposit on the hybrid version first. But they're producing the electric only initially, so we switched our order.

The electric only version has enough range to get me to work and back all week, plus lunch runs, so it's gonna be great for me. Smiler


I sure hope NO one ever runs in to you in that little thing!
quote:
Originally posted by Cuvee:
quote:
Originally posted by MacMan:
Yeah, we actually had a deposit on the hybrid version first. But they're producing the electric only initially, so we switched our order.

The electric only version has enough range to get me to work and back all week, plus lunch runs, so it's gonna be great for me. Smiler


I sure hope NO one ever runs in to you in that little thing!


More protection than a motorcycle?
quote:
Originally posted by Panther:
quote:
Originally posted by Cuvee:
quote:
Originally posted by MacMan:
Yeah, we actually had a deposit on the hybrid version first. But they're producing the electric only initially, so we switched our order.

The electric only version has enough range to get me to work and back all week, plus lunch runs, so it's gonna be great for me. Smiler


I sure hope NO one ever runs in to you in that little thing!


More protection than a motorcycle?


Yea...A bigger target...Baw ha ha ha Just hope it never happens!
quote:
Originally posted by Cuvee:
quote:
Originally posted by Panther:
quote:
Originally posted by Cuvee:
quote:
Originally posted by MacMan:
Yeah, we actually had a deposit on the hybrid version first. But they're producing the electric only initially, so we switched our order.

The electric only version has enough range to get me to work and back all week, plus lunch runs, so it's gonna be great for me. Smiler


I sure hope NO one ever runs in to you in that little thing!


More protection than a motorcycle?


Yea...A bigger target...Baw ha ha ha Just hope it never happens!


umm...yeah, I hope it never happens either.
Last edited by panther
quote:
Originally posted by Cowboy from Hell:
This is a press release I received. Enjoy. And now, for something completely different .....



FIRST PRE-PRODUCTION ALL-ELECTRIC APTERA IS COMPLETE;
FULL PRODUCTION AND DELIVERY TO BEGIN IN OCTOBER

The 2e, Aptera’s two-seat, three-wheel vehicle, gets the equivalent of more than 200 miles per gallon

Contact: PCGCampbell – Jeff Green (310) 224-4961 (e-mail: aptera@pcgcampbell.com)

Web Site: Aptera Motors



VISTA, Calif. (Jan. 21, 2009) -- The initial pre-production all-electric model from Southern California vehicle manufacturer Aptera Motors had rolled out the door of its Vista, Calif. production facility. Known as the 2e, the brilliant white two-seat commuter vehicle is the first of a burgeoning fleet of Aptera vehicles that will undergo internal and external evaluations for fit, finish, performance and durability as preparation for full production in October.



The pre-production vehicle is equipped with a lithium-based battery and features a number of vehicle enhancements such as front wheel drive, aerodynamic side-mounted mirrors and wider door openings that make getting in and out of the vehicle much easier than with previous designs. The aerodynamically-inspired 2e will go from zero to 60 in under 10 seconds, top out at 90 mph and get the equivalent of more than 200 miles-per-gallon based on a standard EPA driving cycle. Though the vehicle is still nine months from completion, Aptera has already received nearly 4,000 deposits and the 2e is attracting its share of accolades, including recognition from TIME magazine as one of the “Best Inventions of 2008” and USA WEEKEND’s proclamation as one of “2009’s most intriguing innovations”.



“We’re getting close to finalizing our final prime-time vehicle, but there’s still a lot of work to accomplish to manufacture an ultra-high efficiency vehicle,” says Aptera President and CEO Paul Wilbur, who boasts more than 25 years of product planning and development, marketing and finance experience for Ford, Chrysler and other manufacturers. “Just look at the 2e and you understand that it’s an aerodynamic marvel. We now have to make the final refinements in the upcoming months, squeezing out every ounce of positive performance, and then we’ll have the first safe, affordable all-electric vehicle on the market.”



With an expected cost between $25,000 and $45,000, and a driving range of more than 100 miles-per-charge, initial sales will solely be in California, with plans to distribute the Aptera to the rest of the United States by late 2010.

“With the 2e set to hit the streets later this year, and with additional models already on our drawing board, Aptera will create some 1,500 jobs and more than 100,000 vehicles in the next five years,” says Aptera founder Steve Fambro. “We hope to change everyday driving forever by offering incomparable mileage and innovative technology at prices people can afford.”

About Aptera
Aptera Motors, founded in 2004 to develop and build the safest, most energy efficient commuter vehicles on the road, begins volume production of its first vehicle, the all-electric 2e, in 2009. Utilizing streamlined aerodynamic design, lightweight composite structures and unique drive systems, Aptera delivers vehicles that are attainable and efficient. The company operates two Southern California facilities in north San Diego County, where it designs, engineers and manufactures the vehicles and their composite systems to create an exceptionally strong, sleek body.


oh...well...

TECH: Aptera lays off employees to save cash, founders step away
Electric vehicle delivery planned for early 2010

StoryDiscussionBy BRADLEY J. FIKES - bfikes@nctimes.com | Posted: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:30 pm | No Comments Posted

Font SizeBig Grinefault font sizeLarger font size
The Aptera is being developed by Carlsbad-based Aptera Motors (File photo) .
..VISTA ---- The cofounders of Aptera Motors have stepped away from the struggling company, which said Tuesday it is cutting costs to focus on getting its high-mileage, three-wheeled vehicle out the door.

Co-founder Steve Fambro has left temporarily and is expected to return next year, said Marques McCammon, Aptera's chief marketing officer. Chris Anthony, the other cofounder, who is involved in other companies, will probably not return. Both remain on Aptera's board of directors.

Aptera is in the throes of producing the three-wheeled electric Aptera 2e, which it says goes up to 100 miles on a charge. It will cost between $25,000 and $40,000, depending on options, McCammon said.

The vehicle is now estimated to reach customers starting "early next year", he said.

"We are actually behind schedule, more than what we would have anticipated, and we just made the decision that we had to narrow our focus for the short term," McCammon said.

Aptera has about 30 employees, after laying off about 10, he said.

Financing is the problem, McCammon said. Aptera has had more difficulty raising cash than it anticipated, so it's cutting back on expenses and activities not related to making the Aptera 2e.

"Steve (Fambro) saw that change as a good time to step away from the company, get a overdue break or vacation," McCammon said.

Anthony has been spending about 80 percent of his time with two other companies he's involved with, Epic Boats and Flux Power, McCammon said.

Aptera's claims, including an early estimate that a hybrid gas/electric it was planning would get up to 300 miles per gallon, attracted a great amount of attention from potential customers. The company has collected 4,000 refundable deposits of $500 from would-be owners.

The vehicle's production was originally intended to start by the end of 2008, but has slipped more than a year. The company's chief executive, Paul B. Wilbur, said in an April interview he delayed production to add features customers would demand, such as power windows.

The Aptera is classified as a motorcycle by the state of California because it's a three-wheeler. That enables it to use California's high-occupancy vehicle lanes with just one rider. Using three wheels also reduces weight and ground friction, significantly increasing mileage, the company says.

The Aptera qualifies for federal loans to help put high-mileage cars on the market. Originally, three-wheeled vehicles didn't qualify, but last month President Barack Obama signed legislation making two- and three-wheelers eligible.

The legislation is part of an energy and water bill. It was originally sponsored by Reps. Brian Bilbray, R-Solana Beach; and Adam Schiff, D-Pasadena.

Investors in the company include Pasadena-based Idealab and Google.org, the nonprofit philanthropic arm of search engine giant Google.

Call staff writer Bradley J. Fikes at 760-739-6641. Read his blogs at bizblogs.nctimes.com.

Posted in Business on Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:30 pm | Tags: Nct, Business, Local,
quote:
I had the pleasure of driving this:

http://www.popularmechanics.co...ve_news/3423261.html

Here is my personal evaluation:
It goes like stink in a straight line (much faster then a normal Elise).
It corners like a brick.
It brakes...no it doesn't...shit...ahhh thank god that guy moved aside.
...and I can use it only 2 times a week. Why you ask?
Well because my round trip to the office is 100km (Urban and highway). So on day Two the recharging is not complete as a result I can not make the round trip a second time on day two. On day three I can use it again, unfortunatly I have an outside meeting another 40 km away which means I am not sure I am going to make it home (The stated mileage is ehhh "enthousiastic").
It has the equal amount of storage space then a pocketless jeans on a girl one size too big.
And then there is that issue of sub zero temperatures and the way batteries react to that.
Have Aptera call me; I am a briljant road tester.

Oh and before I forget. It runs out of juice on track after about 50km. And I swear it is a heavy piece of equipment to push aside.


Interesting... My brother was an engineer for Tesla and had the good fortune of bringing test mules home often. I was thoroughly impressed with the car (except price). He brought it to a Pantera club meeting one night and gave everyone rides - that means 3.9 second 0-60 launches, race around a few corners, and bring everyone back with ear to ear grins! Then we went out and continued to flog the car into the wee hours of the night until we reached an indicated 9 miles of remaining range and brought it home. Plugged in to the 220 overnight and was fully charged by morning with a calculated 156 range based on the driving pattern of the night before. Two friends at work own these as well and are also thoroughly impressed. I'd like one, but it's out of my budget. I do see them on the road around town quite regularly.

I actually prefer Tesla's latest vehicle, the Model S
http://www.teslamotors.com/models/index.php
Last edited by garth66
(From leftlanenews.com)

http://www.leftlanenews.com/ap...chinese-markets.html

Aptera primed for reentry into the U.S. and Chinese markets

Were you one of the few who pined over the short-lived Aptera three-wheeled eco car, the bodylines of which looked straight out of the Jetsons? If so, you’re in luck.

After having gone bust in 2011, the company was purchased by a company calling itself “Zaptera USA,” which is owned by China’s Jonway Group.


Although Zaptera will be building examples of the Aptera 2e in an assembly plant in China, an American-based offshoot called "Aptera USA" will begin building by hand the gasoline-powered 2g model in California.

Why is Aptera USA going to hand-built 2g models in the U.S. while Zaptera will build all-electric 2e models in China? Richard Deringer, chief operating officer of Zaptera, explained in a Gizmag interview, “I got to the point where I said ‘Enough’s enough, we’re going to move forward, we’re going to build and we’re going to produce, and if you [Jonway] produce a mass car that you can sell across the country, that’s great but I’m not going to wait for it.”

Deringer believes there’s enough demand for a handmade Aptera 2g that he’s not willing to wait for the Chinese 2e to hit American showrooms. “From the initial research that I’ve done, I get a lot of people in Silicon Valley and California and Texas and other places who would like the car hand-made, not Chinese-made, and they want it to match to what their requirements are,” Derigner said.

Specs of the Aptera 2g are not yet known. Considering its extremely aerodynamic and lightweight construction, however, fuel economy figures should push above 100 mpg.

If you were hoping for an all-electric or hybrid version of the Aptera rather than a gasoline-only version, you might get your wish. Deringer and Aptera USA plan to build their own 2e and a hybrid variant as well. There’s good chance that the Chinese-made 2e could be shipped Stateside as well, though, opening up options further for interested parties.

What will the new Apteras cost? Derigner estimates the Chinese 2e models could run near the $30,000 mark. And his American-built 2g models could fetch in the $50,000-$55,000 range.
Last edited by fourwalling
There can never be an apples to apples comparison of electric to gas cars.

Allowing lighter smaller cars to get by with a weaker crash test does not bode well for their safety. I have an MGB and I simply avoid high speed high traffic areas. If I get tangled up in a mess I have no control over I don't have a chance. I have a big stinking truck and I like my big stinking truck. If an SUV or comercial truck runs up my ass I don't fear for my life.

Having said that I do think they have their place. I think if we built comunities around smaller cars electrics could really take off.

In the country (and many counties across the nation) golf carts and small ATV's are being aloowed on the road. Micro vehickle travel is being used in this sort of back door fassion.

I still see 150 mile range as limiting. I don't head out unless I need to run errands and it is not uncommon to put a lot more miles then you think running around town. Not to mention reduced range when batteries are not up to spec.


Having to plug your car in every night is one more thing consuming your life; not that it is out of the question, just being truthfull.

This typically requires a garage. How many people have garages full of stuff with the cars sitting outside.

Charging infustructure for long trups are weak at best. Blogs of electric car sympathizers who post locations at their own home to allow others to charge on trips.

Doesn't mean I don't like the direction of electrics. We are a resourcefull group.

Like another person said, I think the global warming argument (which used to be global cooling and now is general climate change) is simply made for political taxing and power.

Having said that, that does not put me against electrics. In fact I am making a cart for myself. In my specific situation my business is next door to my property and I am constantly running back and forth. I haul stuff; lot's of stuff; like a truck.

Most small UTV type vehickles have moved from utility to fun. The John Deer Gator for example is no longer a utility vehicle but a "Fun" vehicle. So I decided to make my own loosly based on the Cushman:








quote:
Allowing lighter smaller cars to get by with a weaker crash test does not bode well for their safety.

Agreed. Not unless they will operate on roadways other than those occupied by semis.

quote:
Having to plug your car in every night is one more thing consuming your life; not that it is out of the question, just being truthfull.

Got a cell phone? Nobody complains about having to charge them them up daily...

I think that IF humans are to continue to move about somewhat as freely as they currently do, without going extinct as a result, electric vehicles will be how it happens. Which of course flies in direct conflict with our favorite internal-combustion toys.

I think the scientific evidence points to the earth's warming, whether due to global temperature cycles or man's actions. Personally, I find it difficult to believe that human's HAVE NOT had an impact on it.

I wonder how many people who live in New Orleans or the Jersey shore still consider climate change to by a myth?

I think your electric cart is a great idea. If/when I build another car, I intend to look into the idea of doing it electric. A local friend has got an old DAF fixed up with new electronics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqaGvlFoGq4
quote:
Got a cell phone? Nobody complains about having to charge them them up daily...



And that is a pain too. The more advanced my phone seems to get the more time I waste messing with it.

The more people consume themself messing with these toys the less people in society are actually capable of doing other things.

I wish I still had a flip phone with no other abilities with a charge that lasted a week instead of messing with it everyday but it is one more thing.

Think about it, the future of everything seems to push the efforts on to the user. Just look at automated phone systems. We had a problem with the Satelite Internet the other day and I spent a half hour just navigating thier automated phone system only to get to an uneducated tech who could not understand my problem only to flip pages in a book. This whole process took 2 hours.

It is a fact you need a garage, or a dry dedicated spot for charging, a charging system and more infustructure even at your house. To ignore it as "just part of the future" is not to be truthful with it.

Not that it is not worth it, we all mess with things that consume our time. BUT..what works for one will not necessarily work for all.

While not ALL electricity comes from coal, windmills are not the golden goose they are made out to be:

http://northeastwindmills.com/...ern-horse-and-buggy/

I have flown over 100's of wind farms only to see 80% of them idle.

In many countries, they have adopted regulation because there are so many abandoned windmills. The regulation forces the companies who put them up to take them back down when they do not work.

Everyone is working for solutions but it is not as easy as flipping a switch and will take many decades to sort it out.


quote:

I think the scientific evidence points to the earth's warming, whether due to global temperature cycles or man's actions. Personally, I find it difficult to believe that human's HAVE NOT had an impact on it.

I wonder how many people who live in New Orleans or the Jersey shore still consider climate change to by a myth?



The "POLITICAL SCIENCE" points to global warming but other scientist have been pointing to the fact the earth is actually in a cooling period and have debunked the legitimacy of the CO2 argument.

http://www.petitionproject.org/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ja...obal-warming-crisis/


The fact is there is nothing different about New Orleans or Jersey shore now then 100 years ago and the warnings of global warming science from 30 years ago didn't happen ... and now they are working dilligantly to come up with excuses...because it's not about science but power and money.

Problem with government involvement is in the end all they do is mess up an economic system where science and capitalism prevail... destroying industry and creating poverty as an outcome.

If we are going to run out of oil, then so be it. Let it happen. To sabatoge the energy industry ahead of time kills the possibilty of future solutions.

For instance, our government bought out GM. Up to that pont GM was begining to instal Hydrogen stations across the nation and were going to start making a hydrogen car. We have been able to build the car for years but we never had the infustructure.

At the point the government took over GM all work on the hydrogen stations were stopped instead focussing on the Volt.

Problem is everything is in developmental transition. While other car companies let bad ideas die, then build better ideas, GM stopped! They locked themself into the VOLT while the rest of the car companies let their bad ideas die for newer better technology.

Look at British Leland in the 60's, 70's, 80's. MG, Triumph, etc, they did not advance. They were all fightning amongst themself while the world passed them by. A 1980 MGB is little different (except for emissions, crash bumpers and less power) then a 1970 MGB. This is what our government did to GM with the Volt.

Government's involvement in global warming has nothing to do with science and has everything to do with power and money over people.
Last edited by comp2
comp2,
AMEN!
MarsRed,
Everything points to global warming except empirical data, the actual measuring of temperatures all over the planet. The global warming phenomena is based on computer models, not actual temperature measurements. If man made carbon pollution is to blame, then how is it explained on other planets which have experienced increased temperatures. There seems to be a more direct correlation with sunspot activity.
quote:
The global warming phenomena is based on computer models, not actual temperature measurements.

FWIW, even if global warming were actually occurring, it would be a good thing! It would make more of the planet inhabitable, increase the land available for food production, and generally make more of the planet a more desirable place to live.
I sure hope you guys are right, that climate change is bs. But...

http://www.petitionproject.org/
This petition shows less than 32,000 scientists support this claim. Depending how you define "scientist" (from NSF: http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf02325/ , that's less than 1% of them.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ja...obal-warming-crisis/
According to this: the biggest group (36%) "express the strong belief that climate change is happening, that it is not a normal cycle of nature, and humans are the main or central cause.”

It further shows that fully 60% of scientists agree that the climate is changing, for one reason or another.

quote:
Everything points to global warming except empirical data


We'll, yeah, except then you see posts like this: http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/...0045562/m/3221030946

quote:
FWIW, even if global warming were actually occurring, it would be a good thing!


Unless your car is floating away...
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