It took two years of driving..looking..hoping before I found my Pantera.
Really don't care what the current prices are...
After 3 years of ownership...its still damn near better than great sex...
You'll have to get mine by prying it from my dead cold hands....
quote:Originally posted by four walling:
to: Shotgun,
hhhmmmmmm...
my favorite color is blue...
you are located in SoCal...
the vehicle looks to be in excellent cosmetic condition...
Indeed... Excellent condition, But, better than that - It halls ASS !!!
To fourwalling:
Don't listen to these guys they are full of it. There ain't no such thing as a Pantera that isn't for sale. Brad will sell you his car, but better have a dump truck to haul all the cash you will need. They are all for sale, just some are WAY more expensive than others. Even Tim would sell if you waved enough cash under his nose. I would sell anything I owned for the right price. Heck, make me an offer, you never know, I might sell you 4903.
Or if I was living large in LA this is the one to buy...
http://www.hobbycar.com/GroupC.html
That is the Ultimate Pantera ever built.
Don't listen to these guys they are full of it. There ain't no such thing as a Pantera that isn't for sale. Brad will sell you his car, but better have a dump truck to haul all the cash you will need. They are all for sale, just some are WAY more expensive than others. Even Tim would sell if you waved enough cash under his nose. I would sell anything I owned for the right price. Heck, make me an offer, you never know, I might sell you 4903.
Or if I was living large in LA this is the one to buy...
http://www.hobbycar.com/GroupC.html
That is the Ultimate Pantera ever built.
quote:Originally posted by DeTom:
Or if I was living large in LA this is the one to buy...
http://www.hobbycar.com/GroupC.html
That is the Ultimate Pantera ever built.
Not demeaning its racing heritage or the great job the Adlers did restoring it, or even "ultimate" status... but man, that is certainly not the prettiest Pantera ever built.
That has to be the ugliest Pantera ever made. I don't have the Pantera book they're talking about. Did it ever win anything? $250,000 is a lot of coin for a butt ugly car. I always thought I had the ugliest Pantera. I guess I was wrong.
quote:Originally posted by korina:
$250,000 is a lot of coin for a butt ugly car.
I thought I saw it for $399,999 some time ago.
Michael
I suppose I would sell my Pantera, for a certain price. Lets see...its just a nice driver..some upgrades..a spare NOS transaxle...mmmmmmm....damn...guess I really don't have a price.
I believe Panteras are a BARGAIN...even at 50K..and I know their are guys out there that would laugh at such an offer.
The Pantera market is what it is..like any classic car..its what a buyer is willing to pay..and a seller willing to let it go for. When I bought mine 3 years ago.. I paid the asking price..it..in my eyes, was a deal. As long as we have gasoline, they will continue to rise in value. Think about it..most guys don't really care what the price of gas is when it comes to their classic car. Most collector cars HAVE NOT dropped in value, maybe they have tapered off. I think most guys will go after their dream machines. I did..and let me tell you..my heart is stirred EVERY TIME I hear that big V8 roar behind me and I am pressed into the drivers seat.
I believe Panteras are a BARGAIN...even at 50K..and I know their are guys out there that would laugh at such an offer.
The Pantera market is what it is..like any classic car..its what a buyer is willing to pay..and a seller willing to let it go for. When I bought mine 3 years ago.. I paid the asking price..it..in my eyes, was a deal. As long as we have gasoline, they will continue to rise in value. Think about it..most guys don't really care what the price of gas is when it comes to their classic car. Most collector cars HAVE NOT dropped in value, maybe they have tapered off. I think most guys will go after their dream machines. I did..and let me tell you..my heart is stirred EVERY TIME I hear that big V8 roar behind me and I am pressed into the drivers seat.
quote:Originally posted by Mark Charlton:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DeTom:
Not demeaning its racing heritage or the great job the Adlers did restoring it, or even "ultimate" status... but man, that is certainly not the prettiest Pantera ever built.
This will probably be the only Pantera allowed to race at the Monteray historic races. So if you are a rich guy and want to play vintage race car driver with your rich buddies and happen to be a Pantera fan, well then she just might look right pretty to ya. In other words beuty is in your eyeball. Er, or, utility is only skin depp, no wait, that ain't it, pretty is as pretty does.
Damn, why do I always mess up in the wisdom department????
Most other car clubs think there driving in the most Bitchen Cars ever to hit the streets.
Pantera Owners sound like there driving around in a modified pinto or some sh@t.
If you look at the price of recreation,cobra's, gt 40's, retro mustangs and who know's what else Pantera owners are selling themselfs short.
I think a Pantera sitting next to a dime a dozen Mustang, fake plastic cobra's & GT 40's speak for them self's.
I've noticed owner's get into financial trouble & let there Pantera's go for a song and the vulture's are circling.
Hopefully this won't continue but as far as I'm concern'd I'm driving a rare exotic that eventually will come into it's own and command a price above the mass produced Corvette's, Mustangs, plastic recreation also known as kit cars etc.
Of course this will never happen as long as the owners continue to sell below the other's mentioned above.
Frick! I have a new Corvette sitting in the garage, big fricken deal!
Pantera Owners sound like there driving around in a modified pinto or some sh@t.
If you look at the price of recreation,cobra's, gt 40's, retro mustangs and who know's what else Pantera owners are selling themselfs short.
I think a Pantera sitting next to a dime a dozen Mustang, fake plastic cobra's & GT 40's speak for them self's.
I've noticed owner's get into financial trouble & let there Pantera's go for a song and the vulture's are circling.
Hopefully this won't continue but as far as I'm concern'd I'm driving a rare exotic that eventually will come into it's own and command a price above the mass produced Corvette's, Mustangs, plastic recreation also known as kit cars etc.
Of course this will never happen as long as the owners continue to sell below the other's mentioned above.
Frick! I have a new Corvette sitting in the garage, big fricken deal!
quote:Pantera Owners sound like there driving around in a modified pinto or some sh@t.
Did you mean to insert "some other car make" here?
quote:Originally posted by SICK CAT:
Most other car clubs think there driving in the most Bitchen Cars ever to hit the streets.
Pantera Owners sound like there driving around in a modified pinto or some sh@t.
If you look at the price of recreation,cobra's, gt 40's, retro mustangs and who know's what else Pantera owners are selling themselfs short.
I think a Pantera sitting next to a dime a dozen Mustang, fake plastic cobra's & GT 40's speak for them self's.
I've noticed owner's get into financial trouble & let there Pantera's go for a song and the vulture's are circling.
Hopefully this won't continue but as far as I'm concern'd I'm driving a rare exotic that eventually will come into it's own and command a price above the mass produced Corvette's, Mustangs, plastic recreation also known as kit cars etc.
Of course this will never happen as long as the owners continue to sell below the other's mentioned above.
Frick! I have a new Corvette sitting in the garage, big fricken deal!
I think you have a good point here. I have seen what people pay for Cobra kit cars and what they seem to get for them also. I have taken the Pantera to a few of their meetings and the car is accepted very well. What seems to add to the value and their interest is that the Pantera is a rare production car with features that were ahead of its time. Maybe we are our own worse enemies when it comes to the value of the Pantera. How many other 37 year old cars are there on the road today that can get as many looks and questions as a Pantera?
I was sitting with a bunch of Corvette guys yesterday at an outing and they were just about crying about their "investments". Is there really any guy here who bought his Pantera as an investment? It's not just Panteras that are down, everything is down. Boats, airplanes, vacation homes,and mistresses. Of course we all think a Pantera is the greatest car and undervalued and all of that. That's why were here on this board. Welcome to the Pantera circle jerk. Most of the rest of the world has forgotten about us. Certainly the younger guys have no idea what a Pantera is or what the story is behind it. I think that's okay though. We can enjoy our cars for what they are. Panteras are a great value if you can get over their kinks. The most frequent question I get is if my car is a Delorean but my car is silver. If you think Panteras are down,you should see my 401k statement. I will be eating dog food in retirement. Yum yum.
Hello JFFR,
Thanks for the support after my rant,
Last night I went down to the Escondido Cruisen Grand, This a large Fridaynight cruze all summer & in the back yard of the San Diego Pantera's.
I was the only Pantera at the show, well I cruzed a while and then parked in a lot in the middle of no less than 20 corvette's. the Pantera was surrounded by folks & stood out in the middle of that crowd and received alot of attention and I answered alot of question's.
Alot of question s on how much would you sell it for!
Well my standard answer is the price of a new corvette but it's not for sale.
I have to say is that if you want to sell a nice Pantera, do it in the middle of a crowd of corvette's .
Getting back, I remember the time before the Pantera that I own, I thought this is the most bitchen Hot Rod a person could conceivably own, a step above the laundry list of mass produced muscle car's & still not a sell out to the sports car scene of guky wearing grownup geeks.
These Italian designed and built Pantera's and there American V8's, were just the coolest thing to hit the streets, they just made you say WOW. I've since the first of seeing and hearing a Pantera have been sold out on these machine's
Now that I have own'd one for a number of years now, have struggled in,on,under, spent many hrs extra at work to afford new parts or repair parts, waxed, buffed, bled and sweated on it, it really erks me to read these non enthusiest diminish what I regard as something to have in a life time, as just something else to have done.
Aston Martin, Countach,Delorean, give me a break, imagine a well cared for grunting & growling Pantera pull's up beside one of these on a freeway anywhere, they'd just pee there pants, no comparison.
Just got done wiping down the Pantera after last nights show.
Time for a beer and a couple of Taco's and a movie. Life is good !
Thanks for the support after my rant,
Last night I went down to the Escondido Cruisen Grand, This a large Fridaynight cruze all summer & in the back yard of the San Diego Pantera's.
I was the only Pantera at the show, well I cruzed a while and then parked in a lot in the middle of no less than 20 corvette's. the Pantera was surrounded by folks & stood out in the middle of that crowd and received alot of attention and I answered alot of question's.
Alot of question s on how much would you sell it for!
Well my standard answer is the price of a new corvette but it's not for sale.
I have to say is that if you want to sell a nice Pantera, do it in the middle of a crowd of corvette's .
Getting back, I remember the time before the Pantera that I own, I thought this is the most bitchen Hot Rod a person could conceivably own, a step above the laundry list of mass produced muscle car's & still not a sell out to the sports car scene of guky wearing grownup geeks.
These Italian designed and built Pantera's and there American V8's, were just the coolest thing to hit the streets, they just made you say WOW. I've since the first of seeing and hearing a Pantera have been sold out on these machine's
Now that I have own'd one for a number of years now, have struggled in,on,under, spent many hrs extra at work to afford new parts or repair parts, waxed, buffed, bled and sweated on it, it really erks me to read these non enthusiest diminish what I regard as something to have in a life time, as just something else to have done.
Aston Martin, Countach,Delorean, give me a break, imagine a well cared for grunting & growling Pantera pull's up beside one of these on a freeway anywhere, they'd just pee there pants, no comparison.
Just got done wiping down the Pantera after last nights show.
Time for a beer and a couple of Taco's and a movie. Life is good !
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quote:Originally posted by korina:
I was sitting with a bunch of Corvette guys yesterday at an outing and they were just about crying about their "investments". Is there really any guy here who bought his Pantera as an investment? It's not just Panteras that are down, everything is down. Boats, airplanes, vacation homes,and mistresses. Of course we all think a Pantera is the greatest car and undervalued and all of that. That's why were here on this board. Welcome to the Pantera circle jerk. Most of the rest of the world has forgotten about us. Certainly the younger guys have no idea what a Pantera is or what the story is behind it. I think that's okay though. We can enjoy our cars for what they are. Panteras are a great value if you can get over their kinks. The most frequent question I get is if my car is a Delorean but my car is silver. If you think Panteras are down,you should see my 401k statement. I will be eating dog food in retirement. Yum yum.
I agree that many younger guys don't know what a Pantera is. After they see it and hear it, they get things figured out pretty fast and can't believe how old the car is. I bought mine in 1977 and I can remember that in those days it was mistaken for a VW kit car on more than one occasion.
I live in a semi rural area and what seems to amaze me is that people that see the Pantera seem to think it is worth much more than the current market value of the car indicates. The point that I tried to make earlier is that, we tend to underate the car more than we should. I have been going to the rally in Las Vegas since 1989, so I have heard my share of stories about the value of the car.
There is no doubt that there are upgrades and improvements that the Pantera needs to make it a top notch driving machine, but many cars of the same time period can use some help also.
I see one major problem with the Panera market.
The problem is that other makes and models are easier to place a value on. Panteras are one of the few cars (and I really can't think of any others) that can be heavily modified and supposedly not lose value. Other cars are valued based not only on condition, but also on originality. For instance, an original K-code Mustang GT Fastback will have an established value. Anyone with any sense will leave it original or restore it to original. A Shelby, Ferrari or Corvette is the same. When any of these cars is modified, the value typically drops. How much of a drop depends on the degree of the modifications and how easy and expensive they are to reverse. Organizations have sprung up around certain models for the purpose of rating a vehicle, tracing its history and by extension establishing its value. NCRS Top Flight Corvettes, the Shelby Registry, The K-Code Registry, PHS for Pontiacs all spring to mind.
The market has a tougher time with Panteras because there is no established benchmark for value. The low value placed on originality probably hurts the overall value of the car. No one can say what makes a $30K Pantera a $30K Pantera and a $50K Pantera a $50K Pantera. The market errs on the side of conservatism.
There are other problems too, like the respectability of the company (low), the perceptions of low build quality and poor engineering (whether deserved or not) and the flaky (my opinion) vendor network.
I don't see anything in the offing that is going to change this.
Just one man's opinion.
The problem is that other makes and models are easier to place a value on. Panteras are one of the few cars (and I really can't think of any others) that can be heavily modified and supposedly not lose value. Other cars are valued based not only on condition, but also on originality. For instance, an original K-code Mustang GT Fastback will have an established value. Anyone with any sense will leave it original or restore it to original. A Shelby, Ferrari or Corvette is the same. When any of these cars is modified, the value typically drops. How much of a drop depends on the degree of the modifications and how easy and expensive they are to reverse. Organizations have sprung up around certain models for the purpose of rating a vehicle, tracing its history and by extension establishing its value. NCRS Top Flight Corvettes, the Shelby Registry, The K-Code Registry, PHS for Pontiacs all spring to mind.
The market has a tougher time with Panteras because there is no established benchmark for value. The low value placed on originality probably hurts the overall value of the car. No one can say what makes a $30K Pantera a $30K Pantera and a $50K Pantera a $50K Pantera. The market errs on the side of conservatism.
There are other problems too, like the respectability of the company (low), the perceptions of low build quality and poor engineering (whether deserved or not) and the flaky (my opinion) vendor network.
I don't see anything in the offing that is going to change this.
Just one man's opinion.
I don't see the Pantera market down. Seeing great cars getting great money myself. Of course if you put $200K into your car you can't expect to get the $200K back, just like any fine restored hot rod. Becides "down" is all relative, what did they sell for new compared to now?
I agree with Korina...check my Intel and Starbucks stocks, now that is dog food. Hey SICK CAT, nice Crystal Cove photo, now Irvine C&C.
I agree with Korina...check my Intel and Starbucks stocks, now that is dog food. Hey SICK CAT, nice Crystal Cove photo, now Irvine C&C.
quote:Originally posted by DOES 200:
I agree with Korina...check my Intel and Starbucks stocks, now that is dog food. Hey SICK CAT, nice Crystal Cove photo, now Irvine C&C.
I was watching the Barrett Jackson auction this year and saw a resto mod 58 Chevy go for close to $100K. This car had upgrades to make it a good driver, which it did need. It seems that if people took a different view of the Pantera and would be accepting of upgrades and improvements to the original design, perhaps values would be more in line with what the car should be worth. Maybe we also need a group of people within our community that can set values and standards for the Pantera.
Since values seem to be down for Panteras, then I will declare that any decent Pantera shall have a minimum value of $75,000.00 and tricked out cars can get all of what their owners put into them as long as the car can be driven at least 500 miles at one time without any problems.
quote:Originally posted by Joe6pack:
I see one major problem with the Panera market.
The problem is that other makes and models are easier to place a value on. Panteras are one of the few cars (and I really can't think of any others) that can be heavily modified and supposedly not lose value. Other cars are valued based not only on condition, but also on originality. For instance, an original K-code Mustang GT Fastback will have an established value. Anyone with any sense will leave it original or restore it to original. A Shelby, Ferrari or Corvette is the same. When any of these cars is modified, the value typically drops. How much of a drop depends on the degree of the modifications and how easy and expensive they are to reverse. Organizations have sprung up around certain models for the purpose of rating a vehicle, tracing its history and by extension establishing its value. NCRS Top Flight Corvettes, the Shelby Registry, The K-Code Registry, PHS for Pontiacs all spring to mind.
The market has a tougher time with Panteras because there is no established benchmark for value. The low value placed on originality probably hurts the overall value of the car. No one can say what makes a $30K Pantera a $30K Pantera and a $50K Pantera a $50K Pantera. The market errs on the side of conservatism.
There are other problems too, like the respectability of the company (low), the perceptions of low build quality and poor engineering (whether deserved or not) and the flaky (my opinion) vendor network.
I don't see anything in the offing that is going to change this.
Just one man's opinion.
Interesting points that you are making here, but what and who is there to stop us as Pantera owners from setting bench marks and values for the cars? I have a good friend that is into the old two seat Ford Thunderbirds and is also considered an expert (within their club) on the model. It seems that he has told me that in their group, not all upgrades to the car are considered bad and reduce the value.
I am sure that if we as owners continue to bash our own cars, then the automotive public will continue a dim view of the car, which in many cases they have. There are Pantera vendors that may be questionable as to the service and products that they provide us, but that is also true of other speciality vendors that deal with other makes of rare cars. There are also Pantera vendors that provide with good parts and service, so I don't think that everything is that bad. You can also still get a lot of the parts for these cars and that has to be a plus considering the age and limited production of the Pantera.
I am just as guilty as a lot of owners that have told people about the design problems with the Pantera and the upgrades that I have had to do to my car. Perhaps we are our own worst enemy when it comes to pointing out the problems with the Pantera.
Excellent discussion here guys on our cars and their real value. I have 2 quick points to add here. BJ prices don't really count. Those prices aren't consistent for any other car prices either. A good chunk of those guys aren't like us. Those are the real speculators and investors. Some of them are having their day in the sun on television and they're paying for that. $250,000 on a car is the same as dropping that much coin on a Sea Ray or a Fountain.
As far as us breaking bad on the cars, the history of the Pantera has already been written. Everyone knows they were over heaters and rust buckets. As far as us putting a value on the cars, thats really a function of supply and demand. You can ask anything you want for your car. You probably won't get it but go ahead and try. Where my mom lives in Florida condos that were bought 10 years ago for a few hundred thousand were up to almost a million a few years ago. Now they're back to under $500,000 which is probably where they should be anyway. There are still people asking old prices for their real estate. Is the guy who did the bell curve price study on Pantera prices still on the board here? It was probably a year or so back. He did a pretty good statistical analysis of Pantera prices a few years ago. I think his point was don't count the real high sales and don't count the real low sales and most of the prices fall into a fairly narrow range. Panteras never really took off in price like a lot of other cars. I think we can all agree that a Pantera is a very under rated, beautiful sportscar. They might be one of the best values going. For a price, I can't think of anything that beats it. I bought my car and I've spent a boatload of money on it that I'll never get back and I'm completely okay with that. If I understanding my Panters brothers here, most of us agree.
As far as us breaking bad on the cars, the history of the Pantera has already been written. Everyone knows they were over heaters and rust buckets. As far as us putting a value on the cars, thats really a function of supply and demand. You can ask anything you want for your car. You probably won't get it but go ahead and try. Where my mom lives in Florida condos that were bought 10 years ago for a few hundred thousand were up to almost a million a few years ago. Now they're back to under $500,000 which is probably where they should be anyway. There are still people asking old prices for their real estate. Is the guy who did the bell curve price study on Pantera prices still on the board here? It was probably a year or so back. He did a pretty good statistical analysis of Pantera prices a few years ago. I think his point was don't count the real high sales and don't count the real low sales and most of the prices fall into a fairly narrow range. Panteras never really took off in price like a lot of other cars. I think we can all agree that a Pantera is a very under rated, beautiful sportscar. They might be one of the best values going. For a price, I can't think of anything that beats it. I bought my car and I've spent a boatload of money on it that I'll never get back and I'm completely okay with that. If I understanding my Panters brothers here, most of us agree.
Great thread, I agree.
Having just returned from not one, not two, but three solid drives today ... I am always grinning at a few things while on the road, namely:
- how my Pantera ALWAYS turns heads and how everyone always asks about this unique ride. What is that?!
- on that note, I giggle at the plethora of Porsches, Corvettes, Mercedes and other supercar wannabe's ... how many times do those drivers get asked what their car is???
- I don't think we're being fair to our marque. We are not comparing the Pantera to cars of its own era, especially those that are still on the road and driven often.
- lastly, and I have been having a blast proving this final point (at least to myself). I love it (I mean I REALLY LOVE IT) when I pull up next to a Corvette, a Porsche or even a Ferrari ... and they want to try their luck off the line. As many of you know, it's not even close (in most circumstances). There is an F355, an F430 and a big block 'vette in my neighbourhood - and they've all taken a crack. There's no comparison: my '72 Pantera often kicks the shit out of cars that are only a few years old. That's good old fashioned torque, my friends.
Those are just a few of the reasons I feel that we drive a very special car ...
Having just returned from not one, not two, but three solid drives today ... I am always grinning at a few things while on the road, namely:
- how my Pantera ALWAYS turns heads and how everyone always asks about this unique ride. What is that?!
- on that note, I giggle at the plethora of Porsches, Corvettes, Mercedes and other supercar wannabe's ... how many times do those drivers get asked what their car is???
- I don't think we're being fair to our marque. We are not comparing the Pantera to cars of its own era, especially those that are still on the road and driven often.
- lastly, and I have been having a blast proving this final point (at least to myself). I love it (I mean I REALLY LOVE IT) when I pull up next to a Corvette, a Porsche or even a Ferrari ... and they want to try their luck off the line. As many of you know, it's not even close (in most circumstances). There is an F355, an F430 and a big block 'vette in my neighbourhood - and they've all taken a crack. There's no comparison: my '72 Pantera often kicks the shit out of cars that are only a few years old. That's good old fashioned torque, my friends.
Those are just a few of the reasons I feel that we drive a very special car ...
quote:Originally posted by EA #3528:
when I pull up next to a Corvette, a Porsche or even a Ferrari ... and they want to try their luck off the line. As many of you know, it's not even close (in most circumstances). There is an F355, an F430 and a big block 'vette in my neighbourhood - and they've all taken a crack. There's no comparison: my '72 Pantera often kicks the shit out of cars that are only a few years old. That's good old fashioned torque, my friends.
Yea, hang their tails between the legs. Not to put other cars down, those F355 & 360 & such are real nice cookie cutter beauties that depreciate once you drive them off the lot and year by year. But for speed, the only thing that got me so far was some little red thing, said Ducati on it. I went home shut the garage door and hung my head in shame
I came up beside an open tube frame chassis that said Ariel Atom. It looked dangerous so I pretended to be busy with something else. Good thing I just let him go. He disappeared quickly and I avoided the embarassement.
I got smoked by a kid on a bike the other day. (I wonder what that does for the value of my Pantera?) I guess it's time to fix that clutch!
Michael
Michael
This is what I'm talking about!
The only competition for the P-cat is a motorcycle or a 1200-pound (300HP) custom rocket.
You guys crack me up ...
The only competition for the P-cat is a motorcycle or a 1200-pound (300HP) custom rocket.
You guys crack me up ...
By the way, I sheared the pin in my distributor gear last week and my total cost to repair was $0.15 (for the pin - actually they gave me two for free) and about 5 hours of my time.
What would a Ferrari or Lambo owner have paid?
There are so many benefits to owning a Pantera. Self-maintenance is a huge one.
What would a Ferrari or Lambo owner have paid?
There are so many benefits to owning a Pantera. Self-maintenance is a huge one.
the only competition to your pantera is a bike or 1200 pound car? Sheesh, I've got a 65 Nova (street legal and registered) that will smoke my Pantera. Yours too, guaranteed. (Wanna bet?)
...as long as there are no curves in the road.
thought he said "try their luck off the line". oops. that is what he said.
he sure did... I guess it was just my defensive auto-response activating on its own 