PANTERA MARKET ?

I just sold my 72 to a fellow in the UK. I had 5 times the inquiries from the UK over North America. I think most people want to spend $40k max on a narrow body P-car. When you get close to $50k, it gets tough, no matter how nice it is.
Just my 2 cents.
Will

Hello everyone,

I just signed up today as a member of this website, and I cannot think of a more timely question for someone to have asked, i.e., what is the current state of the Pantera market.

Last month I suffered a minor heart attack and purchasing a Pantera is now the one and only item on my "bucket list".

I remember visiting Mayberry Lincoln Mercury in the LA area as a teenager and drooling over the row of new GTS's that were lined up in a row and wishing that I could have afforded to purchase one of them.

The time has come for me to fullfill my dream. However, I have also noticed that "nice" cars presented for sale on ebay are not making the reserve. What do these cars eventually sell for? Or, do these cars simply get taken off the market and the owner hangs on to them and try to market them at a later date?

Thank you for the question, John Kazlo.

quote:

What do these cars eventually sell for? Or, do these cars simply get taken off the market and the owner hangs on to them and try to market them at a later date?

Depends on everyones situation. In my case, I had a few offers that were 10-12% below asking that I did not accept. I knew that it was a quality car and I wasn't in need of a mortgage payment. Some others might get anxious or need the money and let it go for less than it's true value.
Most guys get what the car is worth if they wait. But how long is one willing to wait?
It amazes me that most don't want to pay a premium for a quality car. They'll spend 7 grand less for a car that is going to need $15 to $20k in the next few years.
Will

Things are way down but it isn't just Panteras. There are some screaming deals on Vipers, Vettes and Porsches too. Anyone seen how cheap pleasure boats are right now? My good friend picked up a new ZO6 with very low miles for $50,000 a few weeks ago. What do you think that does to the price of everything else thats cheaper than that. The situation isn't helped the fact the Pantera is being forgotten. You rarely ever see one any more and there are side issues like the magazine going away the transaxle prices. There is no more publicity for the car and what there is can be bad. A Pantera is a luxury item. You don't need a Pantera. I think we all know that a car that costs more to start will be cheaper in the long run but most guys can barely scrape together the $30,000 or so it takes to get their first Pantera and there are a lot of good alternative cars at that price point. I've been drinking the Pantera / Ford Kool Aid since they came out but if I could get $40,000 or so for my car today I would turn around and get a Vette, Viper,or something else where the prices are in the toilet tomorrow.

Korina, are you saying your car might be for sale? Any info/pics?

A German dude bought my orange car right on the spot. Seems they have more money overseas than here. Was sad to see it go out of the US, but if that happens more often I figure that helps the rarity here in the US. The cars are nice bang for the buck, but I think the general public still sees them as ancient overheating rustbuckets. I agree, once you get over $40K or $50K you enter into areas with more options, such as Vipers, Vettes etc...you know, all those common cars that will depreciate. Its the same with any collector car, 55 Chevy or whatever. In general, the other common cars are just daily drivers, but ours are more like collector items.

I see the PURE GOLD car sold already (link below), so I don't think we can say that cars are not selling. I am sure that went for a nice price.
http://www.pim.net/puregold.html

quote:

A German dude bought my orange car right on the spot. Seems they have more money overseas than here.

I doubt they have any MORE money, it is just that now their money is worth more in US dollars.

A couple of years ago, a European buyer who had 30,000 Euros to spend could get about a $31,000 USD car.

Today, that same 30,000 Euro is worth about $46,000 USD.

As for eBay pricing. About six years ago I found - didn't buy - 2511 on eBay. No offers were made. Found out his reserve had been $50,000. After an inspection visit and about four months of back and forth telephone dealing, I bought it for $42,000.

It is a good time to buy as some owners are upside down on other financial aspects of their life, and the 'toy' car has got to go. But in an international market, those European shoppers are now at a HUGE advantage to a US buyer.

Larry

I first started seriously looking for a Pantera in 1999. At that time, I found price range to be about $20-30k. Sure, there were cars priced above and below but this seemed to be the trading range. I actually visited six cars in person, usually coordinated with business travel, before I bought a local (amazingly) car in 2000. In the lower end of that range I found decent drivers that were usually a little on the ratty side cosmetically. On the upper end, I found very good cars from very original to modified that needed little to nothing if you were satisfied with their presentation and how they were set up.

The car I bought was a very low mile 74 GTS in excellent condition. I paid $22.5k and based upon my year of patient searching, I viewed it as a car that was upper end of the quality range for lower end of price. –An easy decision especially considering it was only 60 miles from home and I didn’t need to incur either cost of a plane ticket or transportation of the car, I felt it was a greater deal yet.

Collector car prices today are somewhat depressed at the moment but it’s undoubtedly a temporary condition related to the broader economy.

For Panteras, it’s hard to say, because as noted, asking isn’t getting, but seems to me that the comparable trading range today is $30-$45k (maybe $50k tops?). If that’s so, Panteras have participated in collector car appreciation perhaps on the order of 50% over the last 8 years, no doubt somewhat more recently aided by the weak dollar as previously noted in this post.

So Panteras have appreciated but not to the extent of some of the other US muscle cars. I doubt they will see US Pony car appreciation because as Korina rightfully states, they just never had the following or notoriety, thus participate less in the collector car market run up.

None of this was a deterrent to me. It wasn’t an investment decision and I’m keeping it boys. -What a great car.

Kelly

quote:

Originally posted by DOES 200:
A German dude bought my orange car right on the spot. Seems they have more money overseas than here. Was sad to see it go out of the US, but if that happens more often I figure that helps the rarity here in the US. The cars are nice bang for the buck, but I think the general public still sees them as ancient overheating rustbuckets. I agree, once you get over $40K or $50K you enter into areas with more options, such as Vipers, Vettes etc...you know, all those common cars that will depreciate. Its the same with any collector car, 55 Chevy or whatever. In general, the other common cars are just daily drivers, but ours are more like collector items.

I see the PURE GOLD car sold already (link below), so I don't think we can say that cars are not selling. I am sure that went for a nice price.
http://www.pim.net/puregold.html

I do not know how long that anyone can count on the European "gravy train" to continue.

http://www.forbes.com/markets/2008/01/04/eurozone-infla...tml?feed=rss_markets

Four,

Lucky you only have one thing on your list. It's the same dream we all had - and acted on sooner or later.

Forget about investment. The return is in driving it, playing with it, just sitting in it. Heck, just opening the garage door and looking at is worth all the money I have spent on it.

I got my 1973 in the early 1980s. I paid $22k for it back then. I spent about $20k on it over the years and sold it for around $50k in 2000. I bought the 1982 GT5 in 1987 for around $55 and have been spending money on it ever since. And will do so as long as I can.

It is a better investment than any stock or bond or business that I invested in. In a life filled with problems, stress, aggravation and effort - the return on this cat is my happiness. A great investment and worth every cent.

If a Pantera has been on your mind since Mayberry, then Dude, it's time to act.

Spend as much as you can afford and you will get as much cat as you can pay for. If you have a lot to spend you can buy someone else huge investment for a lot less than they spent. Probably half.

If you have a little, you can still buy a decent car for $35k and improve it as you go.

I for one have never bothered looking at the "Pantera Market." This is a keeper. It will never be a daily driver. And as such, there is nothing else I would rather have.

Vipers, Vettes and Porches are all nice but they are in more of the daily driver category. And unless you're a young single guy, probably too small for the family and dogs.

When my time comes I won't ever be sorry that I didn't have a prancing horse or snorting bull. I am a happy Pantera owner. One of many.

David,

What does the French qoute on the bottom of your license plate say?

Michael

Hello David,

Your post is well taken.

What I do not know is if I will keep the vehicle for 2 months to get it "out of my system" or that I will like the car so much that I will keep it for 10 years.

That is the financial consideration that I need to be cognizant of.

To be honest , as a non owner when you are looking at a car from 35 to 60 big ones the world is your oyster. Yes I do want/ need a wide body car but at that price range one must wait and gather alternatives. Take for instance that 5s for sale now, this car is less than an hours drive from my door and I haven't even gone to see it. If the seller was even remotely reasonable I would have bought it within hours of its listing. At the seller's ludicrous price of 80gs I could put myself in a well bought Aston Martin, Countach, Z06 or whatever and still come away with a warranty in most cases. You have to really love the Pantera or any car for that matter to part with that kind of loot and it is still a crapshoot in the end. What gets me is in this case when did a car that basically sat for a few years unattended to suddenly appreciate 20-30 grand just for rotting away?? These are the kind of attitudes that keep me Pantera-less and admiring from a distance.

Cybo - "Je me souviens" means, "I remember." They must be talking about gas prices!

Four - Well, if you waited 40 years to get this dream car and then it's out of your system in two months, it probably is not the car for you.

D&D - I don't know which car you are referring to, but you can get a great Pantera for 80k - not some dejected cat that's been idle for years.

I had several cars on my want list when I decided to pull the trigger and buy my dream car. The Pantera was the first car to ever make it to my dream list. Along my journey in life several others made it to that mental list. So I listed all those exotic cars, went out and looked at them, investigated the club scene on the internet and narrowed my choices to two, the NSX & the Pantera. The NSX was the logical choice, the Pantera the emotional choice. Then one day by chance a NSX pulled in front of me and I followed it for several miles. The fact that a NSX was in front of me did nothing for me, it didn't stir my soul. Right then I decided the Pantera was the car.

I bought one, and haven't regretted the "emotional" decision. This car IS NOT a monetary investment. It is an investment in yourself. You are telling yourself you deserve this dream, that you have denied yourself long enough. That you love yourself.

If you love the car, it becomes your Italian mistress. Every once in a while it will bust your balls, but you'll keep coming back for more, because you can't get it out from under your skin. Because when you are behind the wheel on an open road, there's not quite anything like the thrill it gives you. These are the signs that you bought the right dream car.

DO NOT buy a Pantera as a financial investment. It is a hobby. A very good looking, very fast hobby.

cowboy from hell

I know what you mean, George, that's why I have both.

I too am of the mind — as David, George and others note that buying a Pantera as a financial investment is not a wise idea. However, buying a Pantera as an hobby car/passion outlet is, IMHO, safer financially than a Corvette or a Viper. Those are dropping like rocks in value and are soon just low-priced used cars where a major repair could end up costing the value of the car.

As far as collectable value goes, that GT5S in NY is one of the original (vs cloned) 120 or so produced by DeTomaso and I think it is quite reasonably priced based on the collector market for low-volume sports cars. I doubt the buyer of that car would come out behind much in 5 years—especially compared to a Vette. On the other hand, if you find an $80K Countach that doesn't need $50K in rebuilds, that would also be a solid investment (if ANY investment can be solid).

Buy the best you can, drive it and have fun now. Let your estate worry about how bad an investment it was "later".

quote:

Originally posted by David B:
Cybo - "Je me souviens" means, "I remember." They must be talking about gas prices!

David,

I guess the word we use 'souvenir' (a reminder) is derived from that word. Thanks.

Do any Canadians know what is being 'remembered'? (Besides the gas prices, of course!)

Michael

I believe that the market has been effected by the economy. I see a lot of different businesses that are in the dumps right now. While my business is hanging in there, alot of the subcontractors that I deal with daily are really slow and hurting. I see alot of people that had nice vacations planned making changes. I still think that that things will get better, hopefully after the election. Election years always seem a little hard on the economy, and then you add in the fuel prices. I sure hope we are able to rein in the fuel prices some how. I am paying 4.59 for diesel and have three trucks filling up every morning.

quote:

Originally posted by Cyboman:
Do any Canadians know what is being 'remembered'?
Michael

The general pop consensus is that the French remember getting their asses kicked on the Plains of Abraham (Quebec) spelling the end of French rule in NE America.

Properly, IMHO, the slogan should read "Je me souviens partiellement" (I partially remember), as the graciousness of the English allowed Quebec to exist as a largely French centre maintaining its language, culture, religion and traditions.

We are going thru somewhat of an economic slowdown here in Europe too, but confidence is much higher than in the US. The Euro buyers will continue to take advantage of the weak dollar as long as the exchange rate is favourable.
I have just bought my second Pantera in the US, and it has cost way less than a comparable car here, and I personally know of two mangustas that have also made their way here recently. It will in the medium term only reinforce the value of the cars that remain in the US.
Steve

http://www.pim.net/puregold.html[/QUOTE]

I do not know how long that anyone can count on the European "gravy train" to continue.

http://www.forbes.com/markets/2008/01/04/eurozone-infla...tml?feed=rss_markets[/QUOTE]

Great thread.

I bought my dream car a few months back and have put about 1400 miles on since. If it's not raining, I can't let a day go by when I don't hit the road. I agree with David (the guy who convinced me that "life's too short" NOT to have a Pantera) that owning, driving and looking at my cat has been entirely worth it alone.

However, I am not so sure that the Pantera is NOT a good investment. It all depends on the circumstance, I suppose. If you do your homework and make a good, non-emotional buy ... I think you've made a great investment. Maintenance fees and mods will add up over the years, but I cannot forsee that the value of our cats will doing anything but increase as they becoming increasingly rare in the market.

In driving about, I get a kick out of seeing the plethora of Porsches and Corvettes on the road - none of them any different from the rest. So plain, boring. The Pantera, on the other hand, is so unique that no two cats are the same. And they (currently) cost WAY LESS!

I seriously thought that it was going to take me more than a year to find a cat and to save the additional $$$ that would be required to pull the trigger. Well, due to the slumping US economy and the strong Canadian dollar, I was able to achieve my dream sooner. The stars simply aligned as there is no way I would have been able to get the same value for money a year ago - or perhaps in the future.

I would have paid double for my cat if that's what it would have taken. I would have had to wait a few more years, but I would have owned one eventually.

Bottom line is that now is an excellent time to be looking for your first Pantera.

quote:

Originally posted by four walling:

What I do not know is if I will keep the vehicle for 2 months to get it "out of my system" or that I will like the car so much that I will keep it for 10 years.

I had that very same thought - a few times, in fact. As I flew in to Phoenix to inspect and test drive her for the first time ... just before I picked her up ... and sometimes (still) after a few rainy days of not driving her.

You know what? EVERY single time I sit in the car, I KNOW why I did this. I don't even have to fire her up to know that I made the right decision. I just have to walk in to the garage. And, let me tell you, when I do fire her up and pull out on the highway ... pure bliss.

There are few things in life that can provide a similar experience.

My question is where is the best place to advertise a Pantera for sale, I just put an ad in the cars for sale section first, since my thought was that people who visit this site have a better idea of what the cars are worth and what it takes to build a quality Pantera.

Any suggestions who be appreciated, although everytime I look at the car, I want to keep it.

I bought my Pantera a couple years ago, but after about a 10 year Pantera "absence". I actually thought I had it out of my system.

I just got the hots for a nostalgic, fun, romping car. I had a 996tt (and no intention to get rid of it) so that was my 'comfortable, reliable, trip car') but started looking at Panteras.

Honestly, you'll NEVER know if you'll keep the car 2 months or 10 years, but do you know that about anything? So buy a good to great one (please avoid the 'bad' unless you've some streak of masochism in you) and try it out.

I paid $31k for my one owner car and have put about $25k in it. A ridiculous amount of money and I DEFINITELY could've 'saved' money by buying a done #1 condition car. Fine. But I've actually ENJOYED (capitalized for a reason) the redo. Met some great folks, have some stories to share, and have a very fun, reliable car.

Honestly, I enjoy driving my Pantera around more than my other sports cars because of how unique it is.

People ask about it all the time, and in a pure beauty contest, it's a flat out winner. This board will set you straight on what to do, what NOT to do, and how to extract maximum enjoyment. (There's that word again.)

Just pick a good one and go for it. I mean, really, who cares if you own it, have fun, spend some money, and IF you decide to sell you break even or lose a bit? If you learned something, had a good time, and have a memory that no one can ever take... was it a loss?

But if you come out ahead financially, like many believe you will, it's just a bonus.

I agree with Hudson. I love the Pantera because it is unique, especially the widebody. I have a silver Porsche that looks (almost) like every other silver Porsche (but with much cooler wheels) and people could care less when I drive by. But take the Pantera out, and people have questions every time I get out of it.

I wonder what will happen to the value of our cars as they slip from the public consciousness. There are only a few thousand of them, and we don't drive them enough to get a new generation interested. The economy will continue to go up and down, but supply and demand is the battle we face long term...increasing demand is the challenge.

I hang out with two groups of people that will be future Pantera owners...young exotic owners, and import tuner street racers. Is that typical for you guys? More of a hot rod crowd? Most of my friends drive Lambos and Ferraris - and one of them is thinking about getting a Pantera!

R.

quote:

Originally posted by RobertVegas:

I wonder what will happen to the value of our cars as they slip from the public consciousness. There are only a few thousand of them, and we don't drive them enough to get a new generation interested. The economy will continue to go up and down, but supply and demand is the battle we face long term...increasing demand is the challenge.



R.

I might be biased as an owner, but the great thing about the car is the way the car looks. It is timeless not trendy. It is one of the few cars that look good from any angle and that is rare. That's the reason the has been so popular and will continue to be.

Just my 2 cents.

We got our car just a year ago, we found it for sale in a trader type publication. I will never forget getting home from work that day and Kim told me that the Round Up had got there today. Then she told me I need to look at page 64. Thats what it took to start the trip we have been on for the last year with 1717. Just a note Kim and I tend to race to see who first gets to browse throught that mag.
I feel the Pantera prices have stagnated somewhat but not gone done. This I feel is in realition to the economy. Has long as there is gas to burn these cars should rise at a slow but steady value.

quote:

I might be biased as an owner, but the great thing about the car is the way the car looks. It is timeless not trendy. It is one of the few cars that look good from any angle and that is rare. That's the reason the has been so popular and will continue to be.

I so agree. While in the Smokeys our car was so WELL received. 90% KNEW what she was. Anywhere else well you know how many people know what our cars are.
A few Harley riders would wave, but the sport bike crowd would ALWAYS wave or give us a thumbs up. This made us feel very welcome. We got out of the car on one trip through the Dragon and one guy yelled at me that he was freaking jealous...I asked him why??? and his response was " you have FOUR contact patches, and I only have TWO". We ended up talking about bikes and cars for almost a hour. He was on a I dont remember but his wife was on a Ducati Monster, such nice folks and it was a pleasure to have the time we spent together!!
Jeff

quote:

I have a silver Porsche that looks (almost) like every other silver Porsche (but with much cooler wheels) and people could care less when I drive by.

Bring it to Germany. Porsches are all-weather autobahn machines.

Amazing cars.

A very good question indeed!I live in Australia and have been watching the market both in Europe and the US for some time.I hope to purchase a Pantera very soon.Whilst I was hoping to buy a right hand drive, the price in the UK is very expensive after we allow for the conversion rate. So I have decided to purchase from the US. One reason is our dollar is close to parity with the US dollar. Another reason, which is probably not obvious to you guys in the US, nobody does so many modifications and does them so well as you guys. You have such a large market and obviously so many talented restorers.This means a lot more cars are probably going to go over seas.This will only raise the profile of these awesome cars and I believe is a great compliment to the guys who spent so much time restoring these cars.As long as markets all over the world struggle more toys will be sold and the price will inevitably fall. I guess its a buyers market!

Well thats my humble opinion anyway!

quote:

Originally posted by JOHN KAZLO:
HI ALL. I have been watching EBAY lately and it seem's that a lot of seemingly nice car's are going un-sold. Is the PANTERA market in a
slump due to the economy being what it is?
Seem's like a large number of the NEW MEMBER'S are from oversea's & CANADA are they the only one's buying these day's due to the exchange rate? What kind of money are these car's bringing these day's [say for a NICE driver pantera?] vs. a well restored example and a project car? What is the general concensus?
THANK'S JOHN

The Pantera market has all the signs it's in a slump. It's amazing the number of nice cars that have just lingered on the market. Last week the highest price a factory GT5S and a factory GT5 could muster on ebay was a high bid in the forties. That black GT5s on Long Island has been for sale for what seems like forever. Include the high number of quality cars listed on Melton's site, the PI and PIM website and all signs point to a depressed Pantera market and lower prices.

I've been watching prices for about a year now...there definitely seems to be more cars on the market and prices are all over the place. There doesn't seem to be much consistency in the pricing which may be another indicator the market is soft.

Patience is a virtue....insert "JAWS" theme.

quote:

Originally posted by DeLoreans and DeTomasos:
Patience is a virtue....insert "JAWS" theme.

I hope so...there are a few now that look really attractive, but I don't think they're The One.

quote:

I hope so...there are a few now that look really attractive, but I don't think they're The One.

I am looking for "the One" also. It sucks when you are ready, willing and able to purchase a vehicle and nothing seems quite "right".

There are a lot of cars to choose from. I haven't quite yet found the right combination of upgrades, cosmetic condition, location (to SoCal) and price that would "blow my skirt".

quote:

Originally posted by dmjung:
I've been watching prices for about a year now...there definitely seems to be more cars on the market and prices are all over the place. There doesn't seem to be much consistency in the pricing which may be another indicator the market is soft.

I'm not to sure about a "soft" market... I think the prices are directly related to the quality of the cars.. Yes, lots of good opportunities out there for sale

quote:

Originally posted by four walling:
[I am looking for "the One" also. It sucks when you are ready, willing and able to purchase a vehicle and nothing seems quite "right".

There are a lot of cars to choose from. I haven't quite yet found the right combination of upgrades, cosmetic condition, location (to SoCal) and price that would "blow my skirt".

Don’t rush the “hunt”, It is ½ the fun…

to: Shotgun,

hhhmmmmmm...

my favorite color is blue...

you are located in SoCal...

the vehicle looks to be in excellent cosmetic condition...

quote:

Don’t rush the “hunt”, It is ½ the fun…

But don't wait too long if the right one comes along. I see nice ones finally selling Nice restorations & modifications don't really come along that frequent.

It took two years of driving..looking..hoping before I found my Pantera.
Really don't care what the current prices are...
After 3 years of ownership...its still damn near better than great sex...
You'll have to get mine by prying it from my dead cold hands....

quote:

Originally posted by four walling:
to: Shotgun,

hhhmmmmmm...

my favorite color is blue...

you are located in SoCal...

the vehicle looks to be in excellent cosmetic condition...

Indeed... Excellent condition, But, better than that - It halls ASS !!!

To fourwalling:
Don't listen to these guys they are full of it. There ain't no such thing as a Pantera that isn't for sale. Brad will sell you his car, but better have a dump truck to haul all the cash you will need. They are all for sale, just some are WAY more expensive than others. Even Tim would sell if you waved enough cash under his nose. I would sell anything I owned for the right price. Heck, make me an offer, you never know, I might sell you 4903.

Or if I was living large in LA this is the one to buy...
http://www.hobbycar.com/GroupC.html

That is the Ultimate Pantera ever built.

quote:

Originally posted by DeTom:

Or if I was living large in LA this is the one to buy...
http://www.hobbycar.com/GroupC.html

That is the Ultimate Pantera ever built.

Not demeaning its racing heritage or the great job the Adlers did restoring it, or even "ultimate" status... but man, that is certainly not the prettiest Pantera ever built.

That has to be the ugliest Pantera ever made. I don't have the Pantera book they're talking about. Did it ever win anything? $250,000 is a lot of coin for a butt ugly car. I always thought I had the ugliest Pantera. I guess I was wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by korina:
$250,000 is a lot of coin for a butt ugly car.

I thought I saw it for $399,999 some time ago.

Michael

I suppose I would sell my Pantera, for a certain price. Lets see...its just a nice driver..some upgrades..a spare NOS transaxle...mmmmmmm....damn...guess I really don't have a price.
I believe Panteras are a BARGAIN...even at 50K..and I know their are guys out there that would laugh at such an offer.
The Pantera market is what it is..like any classic car..its what a buyer is willing to pay..and a seller willing to let it go for. When I bought mine 3 years ago.. I paid the asking price..it..in my eyes, was a deal. As long as we have gasoline, they will continue to rise in value. Think about it..most guys don't really care what the price of gas is when it comes to their classic car. Most collector cars HAVE NOT dropped in value, maybe they have tapered off. I think most guys will go after their dream machines. I did..and let me tell you..my heart is stirred EVERY TIME I hear that big V8 roar behind me and I am pressed into the drivers seat.

quote:

Originally posted by Mark Charlton:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DeTom:

Not demeaning its racing heritage or the great job the Adlers did restoring it, or even "ultimate" status... but man, that is certainly not the prettiest Pantera ever built.

This will probably be the only Pantera allowed to race at the Monteray historic races. So if you are a rich guy and want to play vintage race car driver with your rich buddies and happen to be a Pantera fan, well then she just might look right pretty to ya. In other words beuty is in your eyeball. Er, or, utility is only skin depp, no wait, that ain't it, pretty is as pretty does.
Damn, why do I always mess up in the wisdom department????

Most other car clubs think there driving in the most Bitchen Cars ever to hit the streets.

Pantera Owners sound like there driving around in a modified pinto or some sh@t.

If you look at the price of recreation,cobra's, gt 40's, retro mustangs and who know's what else Pantera owners are selling themselfs short.

I think a Pantera sitting next to a dime a dozen Mustang, fake plastic cobra's & GT 40's speak for them self's.

I've noticed owner's get into financial trouble & let there Pantera's go for a song and the vulture's are circling.

Hopefully this won't continue but as far as I'm concern'd I'm driving a rare exotic that eventually will come into it's own and command a price above the mass produced Corvette's, Mustangs, plastic recreation also known as kit cars etc.

Of course this will never happen as long as the owners continue to sell below the other's mentioned above.

Frick! I have a new Corvette sitting in the garage, big fricken deal!

quote:

Pantera Owners sound like there driving around in a modified pinto or some sh@t.

Did you mean to insert "some other car make" here?

quote:

Originally posted by SICK CAT:
Most other car clubs think there driving in the most Bitchen Cars ever to hit the streets.

Pantera Owners sound like there driving around in a modified pinto or some sh@t.

If you look at the price of recreation,cobra's, gt 40's, retro mustangs and who know's what else Pantera owners are selling themselfs short.

I think a Pantera sitting next to a dime a dozen Mustang, fake plastic cobra's & GT 40's speak for them self's.

I've noticed owner's get into financial trouble & let there Pantera's go for a song and the vulture's are circling.

Hopefully this won't continue but as far as I'm concern'd I'm driving a rare exotic that eventually will come into it's own and command a price above the mass produced Corvette's, Mustangs, plastic recreation also known as kit cars etc.

Of course this will never happen as long as the owners continue to sell below the other's mentioned above.

Frick! I have a new Corvette sitting in the garage, big fricken deal!

I think you have a good point here. I have seen what people pay for Cobra kit cars and what they seem to get for them also. I have taken the Pantera to a few of their meetings and the car is accepted very well. What seems to add to the value and their interest is that the Pantera is a rare production car with features that were ahead of its time. Maybe we are our own worse enemies when it comes to the value of the Pantera. How many other 37 year old cars are there on the road today that can get as many looks and questions as a Pantera?

I was sitting with a bunch of Corvette guys yesterday at an outing and they were just about crying about their "investments". Is there really any guy here who bought his Pantera as an investment? It's not just Panteras that are down, everything is down. Boats, airplanes, vacation homes,and mistresses. Of course we all think a Pantera is the greatest car and undervalued and all of that. That's why were here on this board. Welcome to the Pantera circle jerk. Most of the rest of the world has forgotten about us. Certainly the younger guys have no idea what a Pantera is or what the story is behind it. I think that's okay though. We can enjoy our cars for what they are. Panteras are a great value if you can get over their kinks. The most frequent question I get is if my car is a Delorean but my car is silver. If you think Panteras are down,you should see my 401k statement. I will be eating dog food in retirement. Yum yum.

Hello JFFR,
Thanks for the support after my rant,
Last night I went down to the Escondido Cruisen Grand, This a large Fridaynight cruze all summer & in the back yard of the San Diego Pantera's.
I was the only Pantera at the show, well I cruzed a while and then parked in a lot in the middle of no less than 20 corvette's. the Pantera was surrounded by folks & stood out in the middle of that crowd and received alot of attention and I answered alot of question's.
Alot of question s on how much would you sell it for!
Well my standard answer is the price of a new corvette but it's not for sale.
I have to say is that if you want to sell a nice Pantera, do it in the middle of a crowd of corvette's .
Getting back, I remember the time before the Pantera that I own, I thought this is the most bitchen Hot Rod a person could conceivably own, a step above the laundry list of mass produced muscle car's & still not a sell out to the sports car scene of guky wearing grownup geeks.
These Italian designed and built Pantera's and there American V8's, were just the coolest thing to hit the streets, they just made you say WOW. I've since the first of seeing and hearing a Pantera have been sold out on these machine's
Now that I have own'd one for a number of years now, have struggled in,on,under, spent many hrs extra at work to afford new parts or repair parts, waxed, buffed, bled and sweated on it, it really erks me to read these non enthusiest diminish what I regard as something to have in a life time, as just something else to have done.
Aston Martin, Countach,Delorean, give me a break, imagine a well cared for grunting & growling Pantera pull's up beside one of these on a freeway anywhere, they'd just pee there pants, no comparison.

Just got done wiping down the Pantera after last nights show.
Time for a beer and a couple of Taco's and a movie. Life is good !

quote:

Originally posted by korina:
I was sitting with a bunch of Corvette guys yesterday at an outing and they were just about crying about their "investments". Is there really any guy here who bought his Pantera as an investment? It's not just Panteras that are down, everything is down. Boats, airplanes, vacation homes,and mistresses. Of course we all think a Pantera is the greatest car and undervalued and all of that. That's why were here on this board. Welcome to the Pantera circle jerk. Most of the rest of the world has forgotten about us. Certainly the younger guys have no idea what a Pantera is or what the story is behind it. I think that's okay though. We can enjoy our cars for what they are. Panteras are a great value if you can get over their kinks. The most frequent question I get is if my car is a Delorean but my car is silver. If you think Panteras are down,you should see my 401k statement. I will be eating dog food in retirement. Yum yum.

I agree that many younger guys don't know what a Pantera is. After they see it and hear it, they get things figured out pretty fast and can't believe how old the car is. I bought mine in 1977 and I can remember that in those days it was mistaken for a VW kit car on more than one occasion.

I live in a semi rural area and what seems to amaze me is that people that see the Pantera seem to think it is worth much more than the current market value of the car indicates. The point that I tried to make earlier is that, we tend to underate the car more than we should. I have been going to the rally in Las Vegas since 1989, so I have heard my share of stories about the value of the car.

There is no doubt that there are upgrades and improvements that the Pantera needs to make it a top notch driving machine, but many cars of the same time period can use some help also.

I see one major problem with the Panera market.

The problem is that other makes and models are easier to place a value on. Panteras are one of the few cars (and I really can't think of any others) that can be heavily modified and supposedly not lose value. Other cars are valued based not only on condition, but also on originality. For instance, an original K-code Mustang GT Fastback will have an established value. Anyone with any sense will leave it original or restore it to original. A Shelby, Ferrari or Corvette is the same. When any of these cars is modified, the value typically drops. How much of a drop depends on the degree of the modifications and how easy and expensive they are to reverse. Organizations have sprung up around certain models for the purpose of rating a vehicle, tracing its history and by extension establishing its value. NCRS Top Flight Corvettes, the Shelby Registry, The K-Code Registry, PHS for Pontiacs all spring to mind.

The market has a tougher time with Panteras because there is no established benchmark for value. The low value placed on originality probably hurts the overall value of the car. No one can say what makes a $30K Pantera a $30K Pantera and a $50K Pantera a $50K Pantera. The market errs on the side of conservatism.

There are other problems too, like the respectability of the company (low), the perceptions of low build quality and poor engineering (whether deserved or not) and the flaky (my opinion) vendor network.

I don't see anything in the offing that is going to change this.

Just one man's opinion.

I don't see the Pantera market down. Seeing great cars getting great money myself. Of course if you put $200K into your car you can't expect to get the $200K back, just like any fine restored hot rod. Becides "down" is all relative, what did they sell for new compared to now?

I agree with Korina...check my Intel and Starbucks stocks, now that is dog food. Hey SICK CAT, nice Crystal Cove photo, now Irvine C&C.

quote:

Originally posted by DOES 200:


I agree with Korina...check my Intel and Starbucks stocks, now that is dog food. Hey SICK CAT, nice Crystal Cove photo, now Irvine C&C.

I was watching the Barrett Jackson auction this year and saw a resto mod 58 Chevy go for close to $100K. This car had upgrades to make it a good driver, which it did need. It seems that if people took a different view of the Pantera and would be accepting of upgrades and improvements to the original design, perhaps values would be more in line with what the car should be worth. Maybe we also need a group of people within our community that can set values and standards for the Pantera.

Since values seem to be down for Panteras, then I will declare that any decent Pantera shall have a minimum value of $75,000.00 and tricked out cars can get all of what their owners put into them as long as the car can be driven at least 500 miles at one time without any problems.

quote:

Originally posted by Joe6pack:
I see one major problem with the Panera market.

The problem is that other makes and models are easier to place a value on. Panteras are one of the few cars (and I really can't think of any others) that can be heavily modified and supposedly not lose value. Other cars are valued based not only on condition, but also on originality. For instance, an original K-code Mustang GT Fastback will have an established value. Anyone with any sense will leave it original or restore it to original. A Shelby, Ferrari or Corvette is the same. When any of these cars is modified, the value typically drops. How much of a drop depends on the degree of the modifications and how easy and expensive they are to reverse. Organizations have sprung up around certain models for the purpose of rating a vehicle, tracing its history and by extension establishing its value. NCRS Top Flight Corvettes, the Shelby Registry, The K-Code Registry, PHS for Pontiacs all spring to mind.

The market has a tougher time with Panteras because there is no established benchmark for value. The low value placed on originality probably hurts the overall value of the car. No one can say what makes a $30K Pantera a $30K Pantera and a $50K Pantera a $50K Pantera. The market errs on the side of conservatism.

There are other problems too, like the respectability of the company (low), the perceptions of low build quality and poor engineering (whether deserved or not) and the flaky (my opinion) vendor network.

I don't see anything in the offing that is going to change this.

Just one man's opinion.

Interesting points that you are making here, but what and who is there to stop us as Pantera owners from setting bench marks and values for the cars? I have a good friend that is into the old two seat Ford Thunderbirds and is also considered an expert (within their club) on the model. It seems that he has told me that in their group, not all upgrades to the car are considered bad and reduce the value.

I am sure that if we as owners continue to bash our own cars, then the automotive public will continue a dim view of the car, which in many cases they have. There are Pantera vendors that may be questionable as to the service and products that they provide us, but that is also true of other speciality vendors that deal with other makes of rare cars. There are also Pantera vendors that provide with good parts and service, so I don't think that everything is that bad. You can also still get a lot of the parts for these cars and that has to be a plus considering the age and limited production of the Pantera.

I am just as guilty as a lot of owners that have told people about the design problems with the Pantera and the upgrades that I have had to do to my car. Perhaps we are our own worst enemy when it comes to pointing out the problems with the Pantera.

Excellent discussion here guys on our cars and their real value. I have 2 quick points to add here. BJ prices don't really count. Those prices aren't consistent for any other car prices either. A good chunk of those guys aren't like us. Those are the real speculators and investors. Some of them are having their day in the sun on television and they're paying for that. $250,000 on a car is the same as dropping that much coin on a Sea Ray or a Fountain.
As far as us breaking bad on the cars, the history of the Pantera has already been written. Everyone knows they were over heaters and rust buckets. As far as us putting a value on the cars, thats really a function of supply and demand. You can ask anything you want for your car. You probably won't get it but go ahead and try. Where my mom lives in Florida condos that were bought 10 years ago for a few hundred thousand were up to almost a million a few years ago. Now they're back to under $500,000 which is probably where they should be anyway. There are still people asking old prices for their real estate. Is the guy who did the bell curve price study on Pantera prices still on the board here? It was probably a year or so back. He did a pretty good statistical analysis of Pantera prices a few years ago. I think his point was don't count the real high sales and don't count the real low sales and most of the prices fall into a fairly narrow range. Panteras never really took off in price like a lot of other cars. I think we can all agree that a Pantera is a very under rated, beautiful sportscar. They might be one of the best values going. For a price, I can't think of anything that beats it. I bought my car and I've spent a boatload of money on it that I'll never get back and I'm completely okay with that. If I understanding my Panters brothers here, most of us agree.

Great thread, I agree.

Having just returned from not one, not two, but three solid drives today ... I am always grinning at a few things while on the road, namely:

- how my Pantera ALWAYS turns heads and how everyone always asks about this unique ride. What is that?!

- on that note, I giggle at the plethora of Porsches, Corvettes, Mercedes and other supercar wannabe's ... how many times do those drivers get asked what their car is???

- I don't think we're being fair to our marque. We are not comparing the Pantera to cars of its own era, especially those that are still on the road and driven often.

- lastly, and I have been having a blast proving this final point (at least to myself). I love it (I mean I REALLY LOVE IT) when I pull up next to a Corvette, a Porsche or even a Ferrari ... and they want to try their luck off the line. As many of you know, it's not even close (in most circumstances). There is an F355, an F430 and a big block 'vette in my neighbourhood - and they've all taken a crack. There's no comparison: my '72 Pantera often kicks the shit out of cars that are only a few years old. That's good old fashioned torque, my friends.

Those are just a few of the reasons I feel that we drive a very special car ...

quote:

Originally posted by EA #3528:
when I pull up next to a Corvette, a Porsche or even a Ferrari ... and they want to try their luck off the line. As many of you know, it's not even close (in most circumstances). There is an F355, an F430 and a big block 'vette in my neighbourhood - and they've all taken a crack. There's no comparison: my '72 Pantera often kicks the shit out of cars that are only a few years old. That's good old fashioned torque, my friends.

Yea, hang their tails between the legs. Not to put other cars down, those F355 & 360 & such are real nice cookie cutter beauties that depreciate once you drive them off the lot and year by year. But for speed, the only thing that got me so far was some little red thing, said Ducati on it. I went home shut the garage door and hung my head in shame

I came up beside an open tube frame chassis that said Ariel Atom. It looked dangerous so I pretended to be busy with something else. Good thing I just let him go. He disappeared quickly and I avoided the embarassement.

I got smoked by a kid on a bike the other day. (I wonder what that does for the value of my Pantera?) I guess it's time to fix that clutch!

Michael

This is what I'm talking about!

The only competition for the P-cat is a motorcycle or a 1200-pound (300HP) custom rocket.

You guys crack me up ...

By the way, I sheared the pin in my distributor gear last week and my total cost to repair was $0.15 (for the pin - actually they gave me two for free) and about 5 hours of my time.

What would a Ferrari or Lambo owner have paid?

There are so many benefits to owning a Pantera. Self-maintenance is a huge one.

the only competition to your pantera is a bike or 1200 pound car? Sheesh, I've got a 65 Nova (street legal and registered) that will smoke my Pantera. Yours too, guaranteed. (Wanna bet?)

...as long as there are no curves in the road.

thought he said "try their luck off the line". oops. that is what he said.

he sure did... I guess it was just my defensive auto-response activating on its own