quote:
Originally posted by sonny 4233:
what makes the value of a pantera...?

The Buyer!

I have been following your other post and know where and why the question. I just could help trying to be a little witty this morning.

I too have been questioning why your Pantera has not sold? the problem I have deciding if it would be a good deal 'for me' is that I have not found the one ad that gives all the details.

BTW, I have a wishful 30K collection of pieces that I might be better off selling and taking my 50K budget and purchasing a car like yours (except I don't have a clear ideal of what your car has other than it is yellow)
giving I don't have the photo's of an assembled car, I can not gain the coveted access to Prova Mo. My comments about being able to find the information about your specific car was just my observation and maybe something to consider about getting more people aware of its availability.

for my demographis as a possible new owner, Horsepower and tricked out engines would actually be a negative with drivability being positive. But I could see that being the opposite with some one a few decades younger OR someone wanting to show with a greater finicial base

BTW, I like the few photos I have seen, I have just be hesitant about making that known. I suspect I will hear similar should I share the results of my interior redo currently in progress.
Chuck's Provamo registry is a great resource, and cars for sale advertizing is free, but given that the 'for sale' section isn't open to everyone, nor does it show up in search engines well, I would use other means to supplement that.

As they always say "you get what you pay for" so free advertizing will not necessarily get you to the masses. In my opinion eBay is the cheapest form of advertizing there is, gets your care Worlwide exposure for a few bucks and something like $125 if it sells.

Hemmings is a good resource too, online and printed advertizing for less than $100.

That coupled with a comprehensive photo package and descriptors of history and mods etc. to fire off to anyoen who enquires.

Good luck,
Julian
I think presentation is HUGE. Quality pictures, concise selling points and timely communication with a potential buyer. Spend about $400 and advertise in Hemming's, Old Cars.com, Old Cars Auto Trader, simultaneously. (You will get a ton of brokers wanting to sell your car. 9 out of 10 don't know anything about a Pantera. Be prepared to disregard those calls) I always sent about 50-75 pictures (lo res) to potential buyers. Presentation! And study the market.
quote:
where does the value of a pantera start and come from?

Value comes from the market, what a willing buyer will give a willing seller in an arms length transaction. And overall, Pantera values have definitely been on the rise in the last year or so. Much of this arguably stemming from recent positive press for the marque from such sources as Jay Leno's Garage review on his "new" Pantera, favorable articles in Hemmings and other magazines recently, and featuring prominently on various lists of the most desirable, collectible, or under-valued collector cars lately.

As for the perceived value of your car for sale... It's all about presentation. Creating an ad on Chuck's site is NOT presentation or marketing. About the only people who can/will access Chuck's for sale site are those who already own Panteras and who have contributed info to his site to gain access - probably the poorest site in the whole internet on which to advertise your car if that's the only place you posted a complete ad. List it in the Cars for Sale section of this board, WITH a complete description AND pictures. You're much more likely to reach potential buyers shopping for a Pantera. And, as other's have suggested, list it on other venues - Hemmings, Ebay, Autotrader Classic, Classiccars.com, etc. Again, each ad should have complete information and pictures! You might even try posting an ad on Craigslist.org in your nearest major metropolitan area (and a few other major metro areas - LA, SF Bay Area, New York, Dallas, etc).

Also, put a simple text ad in the Pantera Owners Club of America newsletter (very inexpensive) with your contact info and a link to one of the online ads with details and pictures. Many prospective buyers join POCA in their search for a car.

Last, values seem to favor very clean well executed cars, with a shift toward stock or stock appearing cars lately. There was a time when modified cars (wings, scoops, big engines, tasteless mods) were favored over stock, but all the recent rage over "barn finds" and originality has trickled down to Pantera values as well. That means that visual modifications that are strikingly different from the stock appearance may negatively affect the value of your car. For my money, if I were shopping for a Pantera today, I would automatically deduct the cost of un-doing someone else's modifications from the asking price in order to return a car to an original appearance - this would include the cost of items such as wheels if the original Campy's weren't included, re-doing the interior if it's been reupholstered with bright colors and/or embroidered logos everywhere, etc.

So, post a complete ad on this site with as much detail about the car and it's history, and a bunch of pictures (you can create a "gallery" or just post different pics in separate posts immediately following the detailed information. If you check Ebay's 'ended auction' history, you'll find that vehicles with more complete details and better pictures (quantity and quality) ALWAYS sell for more money. Better pictures means clear crisp pictures, without artsy closeups or photoshop effects (I actually avoid cars with pictures that show ANY photoshop effects), and lots of pictures from different angles, interior and exterior, trunk and engine compartments, undercarriage, and close ups of any flaws, etc. And if you have a book of receipts for any parts or work done on the car, all the better; that gives buyers peace of mind that they're getting a sound car and will pay more.
quote:
Originally posted by JFB #05177:
giving I don't have the photo's of an assembled car, I can not gain the coveted access to Prova Mo.


You're not required to have photos of an assembled car. For that matter you don't even have to have a car. There are postings with just a picture of a "For Sale" ad from 40 years ago! Of course the ad does include the VIN. Having a VIN is the "golden ticket".
I think "Value" comes from three places in a Pantera:

1. Original Unmolested Car - If you have one of these especially an un-restrored example this today is a top dollar car.
2. Design - Since most of our cars are modified some are modified in such a way as to detract aesthetically. I have seen some real weird stuff out there especially in So. Cal. Lets face it not everyone has an eye for design, color, proportion, and scale. I find it comical that some guys think they can design something better than Tom Tjaarda.
3. Build Quality - Its amazing how many cars I have seen where the body parts just don't fit right. The doors don't close well, panel gaps are all over the place etc. A properly restored car that has attention to detail is definitely worth more.
In my Opinion, #"1","2","3", would be... Condition of body & frame.

A rust-free, straight frame is the prerequisite for ANY car !!!

Engines can be built, interiors can be installed, tires & rims can be changed.

A body panel & frame can ONLY be "straight & original "1" time.

For myself what sells a car?!

The car on a lift, wheels removed, bright lights illuminating the undercarriage & inner wheels wells.

A video showing the entire body being gone over with a magnet.

A picture is worth a thousand words, minimize the prose & descriptive exaggerations, show via pictures the condition of the car...Mark
quote:
minimize the prose & descriptive exaggerations, show via pictures the condition of the car

Amen brother! I can't stand when someone fills a full page of ad text describing the history of DeTomaso and the Pantera (usually incorrectly) rather than actually describing the car for sale and it's features. If I wanted the history of the marque, I'd get it elsewhere!
Body, sub frame, rockers, floors all in the #1 category.
2nd has to include the condition of the ZF. It is the most expensive component of the car and if it needs rebuilt, it going to cost you.

Then we have to determine who is your buyer and who you are going to market to.
Europeans don't seem to care much for wide body mods, built or heavily modified engines and interior. They trend toward wanting a more original car with original wheels and a matching numbers car or at least more original appearing.
Americans trend toward being more forgiving and understanding of taste full body mods, engine mods and aftermarket wheels.
Just my 2 cents
As a new owner (3 weeks) I feel I should comment here. I agree with most of the comments above. When I was looking I went to e-bay, Hemmings and this board primarily. Once in a while I looked at Craigslist but with the exception of Roger Sharps "snow white" I didn't find many good candidates on cl. I have to admit I did miss seeing Sonny's car.

I ended up with a stock car, but really liked some modified cars as well. For me the main issue with many of the modified cars is documentation. Unless you are a well seasoned mechanic who really knows Panteras or have one you can hire, trouble shooting a problem on a modified car can be a real headache. If your "built" engine develops a problem and you don't know what's inside, how do you, or your mechanic know where to start? If you scratch your candy apple muave metallic paint and don't have the formula, how can you get it fixed? If you have electric mirrors, a kick ass stereo and other electrical mods then tracing electrical problems might be a challenge.

For sellers with modified cars, having as much documentation on the changes or mods you made as possible with build sheets, names of people who did the work, receipts etc. will really help sell the car IMO.

As for color, I think the stock colors are my preference, but it is really an individual thing. Some like yellow, some don't, but judging by the number of yellow Panteras there are and the original marketing material, I think yellow should not be a negative at all.

Just my 2 cents here.

Dennis
Extremely easy to keep an existing "Matching numbers engine" DeTomaso Pantera.

Remove the existing #s matching engine, fog the cylinders & place in a dry, non humid location.

Then spend $500.00 for a bare 4 bolt main block & build the engine to your specifications...Mark
so everyone kind of agrees that a good frame.good body is the main concern to look for any type rust or any other body failure. matching engine numbers ok but not necessary, color not an issue except to buyer,a good driver better than a high modified engine,what else we are almost there
quote:
Originally posted by JFB #05177:
quote:
Originally posted by sonny 4233:
what makes the value of a pantera...?

The Buyer!


To me, I agree, it just comes down to JFB's opinion...

I often see very well maintained rust free cars, a lot of money is spend on, I wouldn't even consider for a second to buy, because they are just not "my cars". On the other hand, I now and then see cars even though some of them might be far from flawless, I'd immediately buy, even at a much higher price than asked for.

You only need one person, who just wants the car you sell.

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