White Australian Pantera ?

Hi grtz Arno, Google Paul Halstead Pantera
Pantera Bianca.

Joe

Try this -- http://www.go2hal.com/pantera/bio.html

Crazy machine. Fantastic build. Awesome price of only $575,000.

Watch the car race - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...BSWIuB7k66SrZ4U_iP0A

I agree with David, this is a awesome car. Every Pantera guys wetdream.
It raises a question though. This is a awesome price too. Even more then one of the factory racecars with history.
Now would it be possible to build a Pantera more valuable then the most expensive original car?
I mean this a beautifull car nicely build and probably at a high cost. But in my experence every racecar you build looses a lot of his valuable as soon it has driven his first race. Unless you have a Micheal Shumacher winning twice at Les Mans or something.
You can buy a Ferrari 575LM racecar for less with only one race under the beld.

Maybe if you have your Pantera rebuild by Chip Foose or Troy ( radrides.com ) it would justify a high price. But even then it must be really hard to build a Pantera worth more then a original factory racecar. ( even gold plating will not work )

So maybe exclusivity will do the job. This is a one off. But there are many more one off Pantera's.
I can not imagine that there are Pantera's worth 500.000$

But again it is a awesome car. Big insperation for a new project. ( must be possible for a fifth of that money )

Grtz Arno

quote:

Originally posted by Dago: I agree with David, this is a awesome car. Every Pantera guys wetdream.

That is a beautifully executed race car, but I’m sorry guys, even though it vaguely resembles one, calling it a Pantera is more than a little stretch. It’s as much a Pantera as the NASCARs are to the production cars they are supposed to represent.

quote:

I can not imagine that there are Pantera's worth 500.000$.....But again it is a awesome car. Big insperation for a new project. ( must be possible for a fifth of that money ) Grtz Arno

There is not a chance in the world that car could be built for $100k. As far as it’s worth, that will be established by what it sells for, not what it’s advertised at. There are multiple man-years of labor into building that car and the type of work that must be done by highly skilled people. That kind of skilled labor doesn’t come inexpensively and I wouldn’t at all be surprised at it actually costing that much to duplicate it. Halstead himself said it cost $400k to build in 1985 and I find that completely believable. It doesn’t mean it will fetch that much though.

Maybe some wealthy Australian with an attachment to that car and racing era will lay down that kind of scratch. Happens all the time with other historic cars, but let’s face it, they’re buying the story not the car unless they are actually going to campaign it.

As an aside, 1760 lbs is a significant accomplishment in itself. I bet it flies. The price also include drawings, patterns, and spare parts in addition to the car.

Best,
K

I believe that the car was build for around 400K. But that was in 1985. But now we know what to do and what not. I can design a tublar frame on my home computer in Solidworks. I can simulate all the forces acting on the car. By now we know the right geometry for the suspension etc.
There after I hook my computer up to a CNC bending machine, and up with an airfix box of tubing ready to weld. It will be a sure fit. Sorry but this is 2012 Technology available for everyone.

By now we know how to build an engine. The day's of trial and error are mostly gone. Also the materials you need to make molds are widely available for less and less money. Also the quality and handling of those materials are easyer and more effective then in 1985.

It will not be easy, but it must be possible to make a simular car for 100K if you know the way around.

But that was not my point. I hope for him he sell the car for 550K. My question was, would it be possible to build a Pantera more worth then a factory race car. We all invest so much money in old cars without race history. Is there a way to restore or build a Pantera making money at the end?

Arno

quote:

Originally posted by Dago: It will not be easy, but it must be possible to make a simular car for 100K if you know the way around.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on that Arno because I don’t think you can buy the sourced parts on that car for $100k. If one values the labor to design and fabricate at $0, I suppose you can get there, but if that’s the case, I’ve got plenty of work for you at that hourly rate.

quote:

But that was not my point. I hope for him he sell the car for 550K. My question was, would it be possible to build a Pantera more worth then a factory race car. We all invest so much money in old cars without race history. Is there a way to restore or build a Pantera making money at the end? Arno

That is a different matter. It’s can be an emotive subject but to me, race cars are just machines built for purpose. I started a debate over at GT40 forum about value of historic cars. Superformance make GT40 replicas that are pretty faithful recreations and I postulated that anyone paying tens of millions of dollars for original cars was buying the story not the machine. I went on to suggest the proportion of price paid for the story was equal to the purchase price less the cost of recreating the machine. This of course suggests that almost the entire purchase price in these instances is for the “story” not the actual machine and people paying these prices seem to think it somehow connects them with the feat of winning LeMans or the creation of the car, when in fact, all they have done is written a large check.

Later in the thread I went on to suggest the ridiculous prices paid for some of the historic race cars was only possible due to the existence of people with more money than sense and likened it to people paying exorbitant fees for artwork or even Michael Jackson’s glove or locks of Elvis’ hair, which of course didn’t go over very well.

Anyway, in reference to your question, I think you get the point I’m making; one method of establishing value is what it takes to duplicate the machine and the other is the price someone will pay…….and that’s market price.

Best,
K

I agree.

I was talking aboud building a car for myself in my garage, on a non profit base, time no issue

But Talking aboud emotional value. We have a kind of a grown out of proportions hobby workshop. We only work
on histroric race cars like Bizarinni's , Ferrari's and shelby's. ( and one of the original factory grp4 Pantera's ) Many people buy these cars for investment. But when I look around the bar on the Friday afternoon I am by far the youngest around. I am 45. these " old " man look at their cars and dream aboud the day's they were young. They tell old story's how they have seen their car beiing driven in The Targa, or how they watched it as a little kid starting at Les Mans. These man are willing to pay a lot of money, because they are forfilling their childhoods dream. Many of us know that when they were young and saw a Pantera for the first time, they new that that is the car they ones would own.

Bud the young people from this time are not really intrested in old cars. There is a car trader next door, selling Lambo's Porsches and merc's Ferrari's etc. These kid's will stand at the gate and drule all over theirselfs.
If I show them a Les Mans Bizarinni, the just look past it, and admire the Merc SLR at the other side of the fence. This are the cars they ream aboud.
So how good is a car as an investment. As long as there are people around who have seen them when they were young it is ok. But when they are gone, will the next genration be willing to pay that amound of money for old cars? Look what happens with cars from before the war.

Excuse me for the Englisch, it is hard to concentrate after three Cuba-Libres. First beautifull day in Holland this year, and there is already a five at the clock. ( somewhere )

Arno

One of my best friends uncle still owns it, Paul Halsted, he used to own the Toy Shop in Sydney, a famous exotic car shop which he used to import Lamborghinis and DeTomasos into Australia. Ill get ya some pics ...

Paul Halstead's Le-Mans style Pantera. This thing is wicked, i know him, he is a good bloke, i can get you all the specs, it is a real quality build spared no expense race car.

it is going in a race early this year in Melbourne and apparently it will blitz everything out there ...

Driven by Larry Perkins, this Pantera qualified 6th today at the Phillip Island Classic ... less than 1 second behind a Porsche 956!


Results posted here: http://www.adaps.com.au/wp-con...03/PI_Qualifying.pdf

Should be an interesting race!

Dave

This may be the tube chassis Pantera that I remember from the '80s?

Interesting vehicle.

WOW! That is an awesome race car. There is something about watching a Pantera on the track that is very exciting. I have driven my street cars on the track and that was fun, but all my race cars were small bore cars mostly RX-7's. I have not ever run a big bore car fender to fender where you had the power of acceleration. Small bore cars like RX-7's you have to maintain your momentum around corners, keeping your speed up or when you come out of the corner everyone leaves you in the dust. I am working on my Pantera race car now and looking forward to running it on the track, but it is hard to compare to that car which is purpose built. Great car!

Update for Pantera race fans:

Seems the Halstead Pantera didn't make the Sun race, but reportedly will make it's next appearance at the F1 weekend in Melbourne.

They've even managed to recruit the original ex-McLaren engineer/designer, Barry Lock, to help w/the car.

I also noticed two other (sometimes) deTomaso pilots in the qualifying line up posted above; Rusty French and Lilo Zicron. Small world!

Dave