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17" Tires: Options getting fewer & and your opinion on 285/40/17 size?

rbarkley671rbarkley671Member
The 17" tire options in our sizes are getting slim! Neither TireRack.com or onlinetires.com show any 335/35/17 tires. The Kumho ecsta XS is, depending who you talk to, either discontinued or "on back order". They had a 315/35/17 (with a matching 235/40/17) tire that I was planning on getting but haven't been able to find any. It is rumored that they are being replaced with the new v720 model (due out this month) but the current V700 and V710 are track tires, so who knows, and in what sizes they'll be available.

So I started looking for options. The only other non competition option in those sizes (or any other for that matter with a 315/35/17 rear) are the Nitto N05 and they aren't that far from being a competition tire and terrible in the wet.

So, looking for other options I started with 285/40/17 with a matching set of fronts (245 or 235/40/17 or 225 or 215/45/17). There are not a whole lot of choices there either. But there is a good one: Continental ExtremeContact DW which gets great reviews from the Porsche, Corvette, and BMW crowd, and TireRack and Car and Driver. A friend with a chevy (600+ HP) powered Porsche has the 285/40/17s on the rear and thinks they are great. I've heard that Mad Dog has them in the 285/40/18 size on his Pantera and really likes them. The Conti's come in 245/40(24.7") , and 225/45(25"), 215/45(24.6") and 205/45 (24.3" but they are recommended for max 7.5" wheels) sizes. While not a primary concern, the cost of the Conti's are pretty reasonable at about $175 and $120 (for the 225/45). A complete set at TireRack is $586 +~$70 shipping(no tax), online tires $664.57 w tx+shipping (local warehouse $11 shipping). Our local America's Tire store is $727.18 "out the door" which includes instal & lifetime balance and a prorated road hazard guarantee.

While I want a tire that handles well, I'm not looking for ultimate performance, and dry/wet balance and ride/noise quality are important to me. I'm coming off MICHELIN Pilot SX MXX3 in the 335/35 and 235/40/17 sizes. Given that the MXX3 design is close to 20 years old, I wouldn't be surprised if the Conti's are close to their equal in dry performance and much better in wet and ride quality.

Any thoughts, opinions, or options are welcome.
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George PGeorge PAdmin.
I've been considering the 285/40r17 tire myself, paired with the 225/50r15 up front. Available as a matched set in the Pirelli P Zero model. In my opinion the 285/40R17 (26" diameter) is too small in diameter to pair with any front tire larger than 24.3" diameter.

The chart details options where you can acquire the same make and model for all 4 corners, with good availability, correct diameters, etc.

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rbarkley671rbarkley671Member
quote:
Originally posted by Joules:
Tirerack is showing Michelin PS2 in 335/35-17, admittedly less than 11 available, but you only need two!

Julian

Hmm, I thought I checked that yesterday and found none. Anyway, now there only 9 left. Someone must have seen your post Wink. Or maybe I didn't mention them because a set would cost $1,472.34, more than twice as much as the DW's $638 and the matching front is a 235/45 (listed as NA dia but probably about 25"). I'd prefer a slightly smaller dia 245/40(24.7").

Also the Conti DWs out scored them on the test track: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...Display.jsp?ttid=140
tajontajonMember
I have a hard time with the final results of many of these tests. When you look at what made the tire score low, most often its because it doesn't represent what the tire is intended for. Take for example the Kuhmo tire (keep in mind I'm biased as they are on my car) but it scored lower than others based on the poor / wet weather traction. Who cares I say!! My car is never intentionally driven in the wet and if I do get caught in inclimate weather I drive so slow it doesn't matter. But what does matter is that it was the only tire to pull more than 1.0 Gs of lateral excelleration. That should make it the winner.
With that said and my rant over, I'm bummed that they are on back order, hopefully I can find some more.
rbarkley671rbarkley671Member
quote:
Originally posted by George P:
I've been considering the 285/40r17 tire myself, paired with the 225/50r15 up front. Available as a matched set in the Pirelli P Zero model. In my opinion the 285/40R17 (26" diameter) is too small in diameter to pair with any front tire larger than 24.3" diameter.

The chart details options where you can acquire the same make and model for all 4 corners, with good availability, correct diameters, etc.


George, Yes but.... I'd like to get at least one or two more tire cycles out of my 17" front and rear wheels. I understand and agree with your ~2" F/R size difference preference but, I doubt if I (or most people) would notice the 0.2" in radius difference between 24.3"(205/45) and a 24.7" (245/40) tire. But I'm sure they'd notice the 9.8" vs 8.4" section width. Eeker And I think the handling difference would be substantial as well.
rbarkley671rbarkley671Member
quote:
Originally posted by tajon:
I have a hard time with the final results of many of these tests. When you look at what made the tire score low, most often its because it doesn't represent what the tire is intended for.....


I totally agree. That's why I always look at the detailed test results and do my own weighting. What I usually see are relatively small differences. Also, when the test is of a tire size you may not be buying, they are somewhat questionable. Also, while the test results show measurable differences (in tests like lap times, cornering g's etc.) many of the scores are subjective (steering response, braking modulation, etc.).

The Kumho XS's scored 1st in two of the 18 tests: skid pad g's (by 2%) and cornering stability by 1%. You'd think that would give them the best track results but you'd be wrong: they lost slalom by 1.5% and lap time by 0.05%. The point here is not that the Kumhos are not great tires, but that all the tires in the test were pretty darn good and almost everyone (including me) would be hard pressed to tell the difference in a "blinded" test.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...Display.jsp?ttid=118
George PGeorge PAdmin.
I'd like to share two bits of experience:

When I installed the 18"/20" tire combo on 6018, the front tires were 245/35r18 (24.8" OD) and the rear tires were 325/25r20 (26.4" OD). The front tires had a slightly taller sidewall than the rear tires, 3.4" high sidewalls up front verses 3.2" high sidewalls in the rear. The 0.2" difference in sidewall was noticeable with the naked eye. And having rear sidewalls that were shorter than the front sidewalls didn't look right to my eyes. But my point has nothing to do with sidewall heights which would only be a consideration for someone using wheels that are 2" different in OD front to rear. My only point is that 0.200" differences in wheel/tire dimensions were discernible with the naked eye. This was unexpected, like you I didn't think such a small difference in dimension would be discernible. If the difference had only been 0.100" I don't think it would have. This is admittedly a minor point, I don't intend to be contentious in sharing this.

A major point is to keep the front/rear tires equally spaced within the fender arches while maintaining the proper chassis "stance" (i.e. a level chassis). When I purchased 6018 it was equipped with 245/40r17 front tires (24.7" OD) and 315/35r17 rear tires (25.7" OD). There was only 1" difference between front and rear tire diameter. To prevent the car having a "nose-up" attitude, and to correct the altered axis of the control arms, the previous owner (or the shop that did the work) lowered the front of the car on the suspension using the adjustable shocks until the chassis was level. The result was the front tires were no longer centered within the fender arches, instead the fenders sat "over" the front tires; i.e. the tops of the front tires were hidden up inside the wheel houses. It just didn't look right to me. This is why I warn about keeping the difference between front & rear tire diameter within 1.7" to 2.3".
Last edited by George P
rbarkley671rbarkley671Member
Here's a pretty cool tire calculator. http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/tirecalc.php

First, lets look at the original tire sizes: 215/70/15 and 185/70/15 Those are the sizes for the cars that came with Pirelli tires (mine). (AFAICR the Michelin equipped cars had 225/70/15s on the rears). I plugged the original size:
http://www.tacomaworld.com/for...=215-70r15-185-70r15

So the OEM sidewall height difference was 0.83" with a 1.65" diameter difference (or larger for the Michelins)While different tires may vary a bit from these numbers, they are probably "typical".

I put in the "recommended" 335 - 235 17" sizes.
http://www.tacomaworld.com/for...=335-35r17-235-40r17
As you can see, the sidewall height difference is almost an inch (0.92)! or ~20%! Yes, that would be apparent to the naked eye but very similar to the OEM tires! The diameter difference was 1.83"

For anyone interested, in the 285/40/17 match-ups, the 245/40s come in at 0.63 sidewall with a 1.26 diameter difference. Dropping down to 225 or 215/45s doesn't change things much. While maybe not ideal from George's perspective, I doubt that the casual observer (i.e. folks admiring your car) would even notice Eeker
B bdudMember
quote:
Originally posted by George P:
I've been considering the 285/40r17 tire myself, paired with the 225/50r15 up front. Available as a matched set in the Pirelli P Zero model.

Great minds think alike! Just got my P Zeros mounted on my freshly powdercoated wheels.
The rears are 17" x 11" from Republic Wheels who I would never recommend.

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George PGeorge PAdmin.
Thumbs Up! Looks good Brian, how about a straight-on side view? When you get a chance, no rush.

One aspect I'm interested in seeing is how well the clones match the oem front wheels.

In regards to Republic wheels, its a shame they have the custom sized Campy clone market to themselves. A business which treats its customers poorly will eventually go out of business. Custom size Campy clones will cease to be available if that happens to Republic Wheels.
Last edited by George P
George PGeorge PAdmin.
quote:

Originally posted by 73 l:

... does your daughter ... design engineer or both. and can they do custom wheels ...



April engineers parts (including wheels) based upon customer specification, and she engineers the custom tooling to manufacture them.

Her employer (Advanced Structural Alloys) prefers to supply the component parts to the end manufacturer, and allow them to perform the finish machining. But they do manufacture finished parts as well. However, their minimum production run is 40 units. If your requirement is different sized wheels for the front & back, that would be 40 front wheels and 40 back wheels.


PM me if you're still interested in contacting her.
Last edited by George P
B bdudMember
George just for you. I cannot get a good picture of the side of the car, this was at a MustangUnlimited car show last weekend. It almost looks like the wheels are a different color but they are both powder coated the same color. Let me know if you want me to try again. Smiler
My engine is out at the moment, ah..

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rbarkley671rbarkley671Member
Update on 17" tire choices. Earlier this year Kumho announced a new Extreme Performance Summer tire, the ECSTA V720, but did not say what sizes would be available. They are now available at TireRack and the news is not good. They are only available (at least currently) in six sizes, the two largest of which are 245/40/17 and 245/40/18.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...partnum=245WR7V720XL
It seems unlikely that they would design a new tire and only produce 6 sizes so I searched for any info on possible additional sizes but didn't find any.

There is some good news for fans of the ECSTA XS which have been discontinued. Although the 315/35/17 size seems to be unavailable everywhere I looked, the guy I chatted with at TR said they are expecting one last shipment in June and there will be a very limited number. If you have to have them, you can pre-order them and they will be reserved for you when they arrive (assuming you are near the front of the line). The matching 235/40/17 size is still listed as available, but who knows if they will be in June.

I also asked his opinion of the Conti Extremecontact DW in the 285/40/17 size and told him that I didn't have any "Track Time" planned. He said that was an excellent choice for HP street use. Their price is $174 while the 245/40/17s are $126. There is quite a selection of other suitable large sizes in the 18, 19 and 20" sizes.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...DW&partnum=84WR7ECDW

The Kumho ECSTA SPT is also available in the 285/40/17 size with the matching front of either 215 or 225/45/17. Both will work with 8" rims and are 24.6 and 25" dia respectively.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...PT&partnum=84WR7KU31
jimlahjimlahMember
Richard,

If you want to see a few other views of a 285 width tire, I have some from this gallery post late last year. I went with the Conti Extreme Contact DW and I am very happy. I have them in a 19" rear, but they should look similar. My only complaint is that they are so sticky that its hard to do a nice smokey burnout.

These photos were taken before I removed the spring spacers.

http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/...0042044/m/9401046356
rlee63a4rlee63a4Member
quote:
@rlee63a4, what are you running on the fronts?


@rbarkley671, Picking the front tires was a challenge since M/T doesn't make a matching Street Comp tire for the 16" wheels that I'm running on the front. So, the best I could do was look for a tire with a similar asymmetric tread pattern and tread wear rating (for what that's really worth). I ended up with a 225/45-16 Nexen N’Fera SU1. Not really what I wanted but figured the tire is Z-rated. So, how bad a tire can it be for street use.

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rbarkley671rbarkley671Member
I'm afraid that's the situation (different front/rear tires) most of us may be in soon if not already. I'm pretty content with my choice of the Conti Extremecontact DW and that the 285/40/17s on the back will look good and drive well. However, I haven't actually bought them yet as it will be three or so months before my car is back on the road.
rbarkley671rbarkley671Member
About time for an update!! I'm committed to getting ZONKEY back on the road this year (hopefully in time for the POCA Monterey Fun Rally!!). So tires are back on my mind. If you look back in this thread, I'd sort of settled on the Continental EXTREMECONTACT DW in the 285/40/17 and 245/40/17 in front.

So, time to check what's available now (last check was in May of '15). Not much has changed AFAIKT, except that Conti is retiring the EXTREMECONTACT DW and replacing it (Feb 2017) with the new "EXTREMECONTACT SPORT"
http://www.continentaltire.com...coming-february-2017 and "including 17 new sizes, ranging from 15” – 20” " (no mention of old sizes they are discontinuing!)

Sounds great! So I called TireRack to see what they know. Sadly, not much at this time: no pricing or sizing info, at least that they would tell me.

Meanwhile the old DW's are on sale! The 285s are $155.55 and 245s are $112.45 for a $536.00 total. This seems like an incredible deal. The alternative in this size pairing is the Pirelli ZERO SYSTEM at $1,362.40 and they don't rate nearly as well!!

So, what to do? I'm strongly leaning toward the "known known" (as good old, should be dead by now if there were justice in this world, Rumsfeld would say) as I realistically, at age '72, won't be pushing things to the limit or noticing performance differences at the few % level.....
panterachrispanterachrisMember
I like the new
PZERO
quote:
Originally posted by George P:
I've been considering the 285/40r17 tire myself, paired with the 225/50r15 up front. Available as a matched set in the Pirelli P Zero model. In my opinion the 285/40R17 (26" diameter) is too small in diameter to pair with any front tire larger than 24.3" diameter.

The chart details options where you can acquire the same make and model for all 4 corners, with good availability, correct diameters, etc.
rbarkley671rbarkley671Member
Thanks for the reminder!

"That DW pricing sounds excellent BTW. Are there any left?"

Well, apparently not too many. I just ordered a set of 4 (285 & 245/40/17) from TireRack. At least for my west coast zip (90277 so the Reno warehouse) there were less that 4 left of the 245/40s (so now less that 2). The good news is that both sizes are $112.45 + $20 shipping and no tax. The bad news is that the 285's have a mid '13 date code (TR said they should be good for ~5 years). At that price, I can live with that.

I checked other sources and most didn't have them. Amazon does and at about the same price (w free shipping with Prime) but probably add tax (8%+ in CA). They showed on 7 left (245) and 4 left (285). So, if someone wants some, they better move now.

I checked other options on TR and P Zeros are available in 335/35ZR17 and 245/40ZR17 sizes. the 335s are $632.00 each!! Michelin 335s are available for $406.70 but the closest to a front tire is 225/45ZR17 (don't know if that fits).

As for the R888's and other track/autocross tires, as I said before, those make no sense for my needs.
O otisMember
quote:
Originally posted by rbarkley671:
I checked other options on TR and P Zeros are available in 335/35ZR17 and 245/40ZR17 sizes. the 335s are $632.00 each!! Michelin 335s are available for $406.70 but the closest to a front tire is 225/45ZR17 (don't know if that fits).


I have Michelin 225/45ZR17's on the front and they fit fine. My car is a fall of 73 build and the fenders are partially rolled from the factory but not completely and the fronts never seem to hit when steering. I have the 335/35/17's on the rear.
rbarkley671rbarkley671Member
quote:
I have Michelin 225/45ZR17's on the front and they fit fine.


Good to know. BTW, for all searching tire options, this is a great site:
https://tiresize.com/comparison/
As it shows (seamingly) all available tires and where to buy them. TireRack is good, but only shows that brands (and sizes?) that they carry.

The 225/45's are about .3" larger in diameter that the 245/40's. Of course, as George and others have pointed out, width can also be a factor.
rbarkley671rbarkley671Member
The Continental EXTREMECONTACT SPORT tires I mentioned above are now available. The 285/40/17 & 245/40/17 are available as before. I think this is a complete list of the sizes that are (will be?) being made:
https://tiresize.com/tires/Con...emeContact-Sport.htm Tire Rack does not list all these sizes.

Here's Conti's listing (tiresize.com seems to be the same)
http://www.continentaltire.com...ort-28540zr17-100w/?
Pick a size from the popup and scroll down and click view more to get the specs.

In the 18" size for the rear there is a 295/35ZR18 (26.1" dia) and 285/40ZR18 (27" dia) and a number of other possible options in the 19" and 20" sizes.

Prices about the same as the EXTREMECONTACT DW (before going on close-out)and quite reasonable at $203 (285/40/17) and $262 (295/35ZR18). The 285/40ZR18 size doesn't seem to be available yet.

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