2011 DeTomaso Automobili Pantera

A Targa top is a must for me!

In this day and age of carbon fiber tubs, space age polymers, and hand tickled aluminum components, I don't see why the main structure couldn't be engineered for a removable roof from the outset.

A twin supercharged engine would also be nice!

(While I'm ordering, I'll take some fries with that too.)

Michael

quote:

While I'm ordering, I'll take some fries with that too

Mike, go with the salad, Bro
Not trying to hint at anything..
Will (short AND fat)

If the "New" Pantera looked like the "Panthera" concept, we could have a discussion about wants and needs and price would be less of a consideration. If it looked like that bloated silver thing that was floated a while back, you wouldn't be able to park one in my driveway even if you were coming over for dinner.

I agree with Mike that a Targa would really add a huge level of desirability to the package. Supercharging seems like a pretty good idea as well for a modern Pantera.

I also agree that Will should order the salad instead of the fries.

Mark

All I want is this thing to resemble the lines, attitude and concept of the actual DeTomaso Pantera. I have for one, ZERO interest in an exotic engine. Carbon fiber is OK too. At the end of the day I wouldn't be looking for a refined car, I would be hoping for a modern day kick you in the gut, balls out supercar that isn't afraid to spit in the face of the thoroughbred overengineered, nervous on the brink ballerinas that the competition puts out.
I'd love to see a no excuses, no apologies, sideways at the merest blip of the throttle, fat tired, loud as F@ck, in your face Italian equivalent of the corvette. Capisca???

Oh yeah..... and a wing!!!

I didn't do the poll, but only because my spending limit has nothing to do with what I would like to see in the car. For the car to be everything I want, it will be out of my current price range.

One thing I know for sure, I don't want it to compete in the same price range as our cars. For this to raise the Pantera brand, the car will need to be great, and priced above $100k. That means it will need to be perceived as more advanced, of higher quality and at least equal in performance to the ZR1.

It should be Ford powered, an Italian hot-rod, and the US price should be no more than the price of a Z06 Corvette. Realistic horsepower, nothing more than 500 BHP, and keep the weight under control. I'd rather have a 2400 pound car with 400 BHP than a 3000 pound car with 500 BHP; both have 6 pounds per horsepower. Six pounds per horsepower would be an excellent target, by the way; 7 pounds per horsepower isn't bad either. On the subject of coach design, the car should at least be as good looking as the original Pantera, but I'm always open to having my socks knocked-off by a new design. However, besting the original design is a tall order.

-G

The next car on my list is an '06 Ford GT, which I like because of the resemblance to the classic ... but with the obvious modern technology improvements.

I would strongly consider a new Pantera if it met or exceeded the performance specs of the GT. Of course, it will have to remain unblemished in terms of design as it is the best looking car of all-time, IMO.

I am also in the market for a new SUV and would LOVE to add another De Tomaso to my garage!

Thanks for the info, Dave.

EA

quote:

The next car on my list is an '06 Ford GT, which I like because of the resemblance to the classic ... but with the obvious modern technology improvements

I'm actually actively looking for a twin turbo Ford GT. Business was really good for me and I made alot of sales this year. My Boss has promised me a big bonus and I'm looking to add to the stable. I'm also thinking about a Gallardo. Tough choices....
Will

Well my wife mentioned that there was mail that came in and yes, my bonus cheque came in. Looks like I won't be adding to my collection....

quote:

Originally posted by DeLoreans and DeTomasos:
All I want is this thing to resemble the lines, attitude and concept of the actual DeTomaso Pantera. I have for one, ZERO interest in an exotic engine. Carbon fiber is OK too. At the end of the day I wouldn't be looking for a refined car, I would be hoping for a modern day kick you in the gut, balls out supercar that isn't afraid to spit in the face of the thoroughbred overengineered, nervous on the brink ballerinas that the competition puts out.
I'd love to see a no excuses, no apologies, sideways at the merest blip of the throttle, fat tired, loud as F@ck, in your face Italian equivalent of the corvette. Capisca???

Oh yeah..... and a wing!!!

Don't hold back now, Harry. Let us know what you really think!

Michael

Just build it wide, low, lotsa HP, and no jellybean shape stuff so that it doesn't look like a VW Bug on steroids like most modern cars now. Otherwise, give me the old school Pantera any day.

Nice Bonus Will

Hey Will, at least you got a bonus cheque, sure it isn't gonna impress the lambo sales guy when you slap that on the desk as down payment, but maybe if you set your sights lower you'll get some respect - I hear Malcolm Bricklin wants to start importing cars from China (seeing as his supply of Ladas dried up).

As for the new DeTomaso's, can't wait to see some more 'official' shots of what they're thinking of. I agree with the other posts that the new cars have to stand out from the pack, it should take queues from the original design and have a good blend of old school sound and attitude, with modern safety and conveniences (a cup holder for David would be good).

Will,

It's refreshing to hear someone had a positive year anyway...

On a Ford GT note you may already be aware that Canadian delivered Ford GT's are different than US delivered ones and hence the US ones are inadmissible to Canada. I think there were about 500 Canadian cars, which makes the search a little more challenging.... a twin turbo conversion even more so...... but I like your thinking. As I grow in years I often consider selling most of my cars to get a modern Supercar and the Ford GT is right up there, along with a Lamborghini. I keep migrating to the later Diablo's though, still something about the V12's.

Julian

My opinion.........
1--It should be styled to be a modern takeoff on the original Pantera design, something along the lines of the "Panthera" concept.
2--It should be Ford powered for reliability and ease of maintainace. 5.4l supercharged or IR EFI would be nice.
3--Nice interior styling. Don't use off the shelf plastic knobs and switches as they did in the Guara.
4--It should be priced at least 25-30% below it's direct competition (Ferrari,Lambo)
5--Finally and most importantly, it has to be well engineered and thoroughly tested before released. Not hastily introduced to the market..............Could you see the new Pantera having cooling system problems, for example............The automotive press would have a field day!

I guess what I am saying is that it has to be what what the original Pantera should have been; A budget supercar that is on par or surpasses it's peers in performance, styling, reliability and price.

Ian

I have to consider withdrawing my vote, as here in CA any post 74 car has to deal with the smog cops. Supercars and CA smog laws don't seem to go over well here, which is why I won't buy a real 5S car and then have to live with a somewhat whimpy engine compared to other exotics. But if this new DeTomaso has a real strong stock engine that needs no mods to beef it up and it will pass smog easily, well then maybe. But I buy for value too, and most new cars anyway depreciate year by year, even the super cars.

quote:

Originally posted by Cyboman:

quote:

Originally posted by DeLoreans and DeTomasos:
All I want is this thing to resemble the lines, attitude and concept of the actual DeTomaso Pantera. I have for one, ZERO interest in an exotic engine. Carbon fiber is OK too. At the end of the day I wouldn't be looking for a refined car, I would be hoping for a modern day kick you in the gut, balls out supercar that isn't afraid to spit in the face of the thoroughbred overengineered, nervous on the brink ballerinas that the competition puts out.
I'd love to see a no excuses, no apologies, sideways at the merest blip of the throttle, fat tired, loud as F@ck, in your face Italian equivalent of the corvette. Capisca???

Oh yeah..... and a wing!!!

Don't hold back now, Harry. Let us know what you really think!

Michael

Are you kidding me??? I have been dreaming about a Pantera for years!!!! I was actually holding back!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by DeLoreans and DeTomasos:

quote:

Originally posted by Cyboman:

quote:

Originally posted by DeLoreans and DeTomasos:
All I want is this thing to resemble the lines, attitude and concept of the actual DeTomaso Pantera. I have for one, ZERO interest in an exotic engine. Carbon fiber is OK too. At the end of the day I wouldn't be looking for a refined car, I would be hoping for a modern day kick you in the gut, balls out supercar that isn't afraid to spit in the face of the thoroughbred overengineered, nervous on the brink ballerinas that the competition puts out.
I'd love to see a no excuses, no apologies, sideways at the merest blip of the throttle, fat tired, loud as F@ck, in your face Italian equivalent of the corvette. Capisca???

Oh yeah..... and a wing!!!

Don't hold back now, Harry. Let us know what you really think!

Michael

Are you kidding me??? I have been dreaming about a Pantera for years!!!! I was actually holding back!!!!

If you hold out just a bit longer, you could be the first on the block with a brand spanking new 2012 (or so) Pantera! That would be freakin' sweet.

Michael

Sports cars have become very soft-edged and luxurious. There was a time when a sports car was nothing more than a street legal car you could buy off the show room floor and take amateur racing. I like the idea of something a little more "hard-edged" than the current crop of psuedo sports cars. If you look at the big picture, sports cars, even super cars, have become cookie cutter copies of one another, differing only in details and styling. And there are some Japanese and South African sports cars that will put Italy's super cars to shame for a lot less money.

Something with the engineering of the KTM X-Bow, but with Italian styling, might shake up the sports car world. The X-Bow weighs 1600 pounds, it's available with 220, 260 or 300 horsepower (7.27 pounds per horsepower, 6.15 pounds per horsepower or 5.33 pounds per horsepower respectively). It costs around $50,000 USD. Colin Chapman would approve.

-G

It's a numbers question:
I want the new Pantera to be (compared to FerLam):
110% in looks
95-100% in performance
60-70% in price
Max 50% in hassle and maintenance
Just like my current Pantera

While I am excited about the forthcoming DeTomaso models and news, this would have to be one hell of a car to make me not want a a 5S. I hope it is though, as I have always been the underdog type of guy. I am more into the... it's an Italian musclecar than it's like a Ferrari sort of thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Cyboman:

quote:

Originally posted by DeLoreans and DeTomasos:

quote:

Originally posted by Cyboman:

quote:

Originally posted by DeLoreans and DeTomasos:
All I want is this thing to resemble the lines, attitude and concept of the actual DeTomaso Pantera. I have for one, ZERO interest in an exotic engine. Carbon fiber is OK too. At the end of the day I wouldn't be looking for a refined car, I would be hoping for a modern day kick you in the gut, balls out supercar that isn't afraid to spit in the face of the thoroughbred overengineered, nervous on the brink ballerinas that the competition puts out.
I'd love to see a no excuses, no apologies, sideways at the merest blip of the throttle, fat tired, loud as F@ck, in your face Italian equivalent of the corvette. Capisca???

Oh yeah..... and a wing!!!

Don't hold back now, Harry. Let us know what you really think!

Michael

Are you kidding me??? I have been dreaming about a Pantera for years!!!! I was actually holding back!!!!

If you hold out just a bit longer, you could be the first on the block with a brand spanking new 2012 (or so) Pantera! That would be freakin' sweet.

Michael

To my mind, there are two sayings that go to the heart of what a Pantera is:

1.

"Panteras are easily the baddest ride you can buy. No quirky purists either. These aren't toys to impress the boys at the golf club, these are evil machines meant to be driven, spanked and put away with the aroma of burnt rubber, high octane gas and a pair of panties on the floor.”

2.

"Driving a Ferrari is like being married to a prima ballerina. Driving a Pantera is like dating a hooker."


As long as any new Pantera were to be true to this testosterone-soaked philosophy, it would always have its own niche in the marketplace and succeed. The car should be raw, rugged, head-turning gorgeous and, above all, it should pull like a freight train throughout the power band. The top speed wars are good only for bragging rights at the golf club; a Pantera is all about real world performance which means it should have a world-beating 1/4 mile time and excel as a true Grand Touring sports car.

A big Ford V-8 would be a logical choice in the De Tomaso tradition, maybe built by Roush, although building the car on the Ford GT chassis and using its drivetrain would be the easiest solution (in the unlikely event that Ford would be willing to cooperate).

It should also remain true to the original concept as described by Tom Tjaarda, which is that it should look like a haunched panther, with the hips emphasizing the mid-engine arrangement. It should be timelessly beautiful in the Italian tradition of design. Just don't make it a characterless aeroblob. We have enough rolling suppositories clogging up our roads as it is.

From what I have read about the new owner of the brand, however, I sincerely doubt we will see anything like a new Pantera anytime soon. It's fun to dream, though...

It is satisfying to know that we all like the Pantera for the same reasons. It would have to be a hell of a car to keep me from wanting a 5S though.

If the new Pantera was every bit as good as the recent Ford GT in terms of beauty and performance, would $150,000.00 for the new Pantera simply be out of the question? This may be the direction the next car is heading. Your reaction?

quote:

If the new Pantera was every bit as good as the recent Ford GT in terms of beauty and performance, would $150,000.00 for the new Pantera simply be out of the question? This may be the direction the next car is heading. Your reaction?

I think that something in that price range would be great, but it would be nice if it could be priced under $100K. That would make it available to a different crowd

The magazine ads could say "Priced around $100,000" just like the original "priced around $10,000" ad's did in the 70's.

quote:

would $150,000.00 for the new Pantera simply be out of the question? This may be the direction the next car is heading. Your reaction?

It took me thirty years to fulfill my dream.

Most of that waiting time was the money issue.

A $150K dream wouldn't be a new dream, it would be a total fantasy.

The name De Tomaso may be revived.

But the magic and appeal of the Pantera is unique and will remain so.

Bring on all the new cookie-cutter DT cars the world can handle, but I sure don't see me buying one.

I've got mine.

Larry

quote:

A $150K dream wouldn't be a new dream, it would be a total fantasy.

The name De Tomaso may be revived.

But the magic and appeal of the Pantera is unique and will remain so.

Bring on all the new cookie-cutter DT cars the world can handle, but I sure don't see me buying one.

I've got mine.

+1
Well said Larry.

The Pantera remains the best value of any high performance sports/GT period !

quote:

Originally posted by LF - TP 2511:

quote:

would $150,000.00 for the new Pantera simply be out of the question? This may be the direction the next car is heading. Your reaction?

It took me thirty years to fulfill my dream.

Most of that waiting time was the money issue.

A $150K dream wouldn't be a new dream, it would be a total fantasy.

The name De Tomaso may be revived.

But the magic and appeal of the Pantera is unique and will remain so.

Bring on all the new cookie-cutter DT cars the world can handle, but I sure don't see me buying one.

I've got mine.

Larry

I am in the same boat as Larry, I love my Pantera and would not want to change it for a 'modern' one, modern cars simply do not appeal. However, even if I wanted to, there is no way I could ever afford a new 'modern' Pantera, especially in Denmark with 180+% registration tax. My guess is that a 'modern' Pantera is probably going to be something for a whole different group of people than those that are fascinated by the original Panteras. Perhaps drawing an analogy with the Ford GT, Audi A8, etc is appropriate, and looking at the people that buy those cars as the potential market.
Cheers, Tim.

Hey! - don't forget - The pricer and more exotic they make the new Pantera , the more valuable and pricier our "vintage" Panteras become....

Its an obvious fact of life, the higher they price the car, the fewer people around here could ever afford it. Its a bit disappointing the $150,000 question was even asked. Makes me wonder if anyone is even listening. Or do they only hear what they want to hear. Will it be Ford powered? Most people here have blood that runs Ford blue. With few exceptions these Pantera folks are not Italian car dilettantes. They are good old American muscle enthusiasts. They are Mustang guys who didn't want a "me too" Mustang, they wanted something a little different, something that performed a little better, they wanted to stand out from the crowd because they are individualists who march to their own drum. The dual persona of the original Pantera, the throbbing Ford V8 wrapped in Italian coachwork is what appeals to these guys.

Here's where the North American competition is at:

The Chevrolet Z06 is currently $74,000 USD. $150,000 is twice the price of a Z06 'Vette. The Z06 weighs 3175 pounds, 300 pounds lighter than a Ford GT. The Z06 has 6.28 pounds per horsepower, the Ford GT has 6.33 pounds per horsepower. 0 to 60 comes up in the Z06 in about 3.5 seconds, 60 to 0 happens in only 104 feet, lateral acceleration is 1.05 G and it will do the standing quarter mile in 11.5 seconds. Most of these specs are identical to the specs of the Ford GT except the braking spec, which is better, no doubt owing to the fact the Z06 is 300 pounds lighter.

DeTomaso, keep your new sports car light, imagine a KTM X-Bow chassis & drive train wrapped up in Italian coachwork penned by Tom Tjaarda, give it enough of Ford V8 power to achieve 6 pounds per horsepower (about 330 BHP). Imagine Z06/Ford GT performance in a car weighing perhaps 2000 pounds. Be bold, be imaginative, don't follow the crowd. The Pantera wasn't the first mid-engine sports car, but they weren't very common in 1971. A vehicle like the X-Bow wouldn't be new, but such vehicles aren't very common at this moment in time. The trend is towards smaller, lighter, greener, less expensive cars. There are already articles in the media declaring expensive, exotic, Super Cars as a thing of the past.

-G

Hold on a second. I do not recall reading anywhere that the new DT saviour is going to produce a "sports car."

All I have seen in PRs worldwide is that Rossignoli is resurrecting the brand with a big SUV type vehicle. I see no official plans for a modern version of our a two-seater Pantera.

As George indicates, there are certainly enough supercars around for 100k or less. Why would a fledging new brand, in a difficult economic climate, try to build something in a category cluttered with great performing, great looking cars?

And how many 2011 Panteras do you think a new manufacturer could sell in the best of times?

I'm sure Signor Rossingnolo has his sights set on building cars that he can sell in enough volume to avoid losing money. Which leads me to believe the whole question re pricing strategy is moot.

Maybe we should be asking ourselves what, if any impact, will there be on our cars, once a new DeTomaso hits the streets a) if it's a hit and b) if it's a dud.

I really like my Pantera and can’t imagine parting with it. My car is in a constant state of evolution, in my mind and in fact. Aside from driving it, that's one of the things that makes it fun. If I put my feelings aside for a moment and am a business pragmatist:

quote:

"Driving a Ferrari is like being married to a prima ballerina. Driving a Pantera is like dating a hooker."

Yes but I must say, if you’d like to roll with a very naughty girl, you should take one of the street going component/replica/kit cars like the GT40 or perhaps the RCR SL-C for a ride. Any power plant you can a put in your Pantera you can stuff in them and in street trim they weigh in at about 2300-2400 lbs.

On the price issue, these component cars can be bought turn key built to your specs for <$125k. The pre-owned market is developing [Not SL-C) and now slightly used they can be had for as little as $70k. There’s probably something to be learned from the comparison I just made, similar to the lesson in buying modified Panteras. They are not GT cars but anyone that wants a max performance street machine they can track really needs to take a hard look at these cars. They are a great value in this respect.

I joke with my friends that driving my 40 is like being stuffed in a 50 gallon drum with a little oil and fuel in the bottom, set out in the sun, while someone beats on the side with a wrench. –Man it’s fun. My Pantera actually seems civil afterward.

Back to the potential for a new DeTomaso super car, on the first go around Ford offered the Pantera at twice the price of a Corvette. Everyone knows the various gaffs that were made along the way but from a business perspective it was not a success, at least for Ford. Today the field is much more crowded for such cars, and the entry costs, level of regulation, and the performance bar set much higher. Entering this market with a car at 2x the Z06 today?

For reasons mentioned earlier in this thread about the present Pantera following, and the fact that it’s not a recognized brand/marque I can’t see there being much of a pull from it in the market for those who buy high end sports cars as status symbols. Would they boast to their friends about their new DeTomaso? If so it would be on the merits of the car itself not the past.

Sorry fellas don’t mean to be a killjoy but all sentimentality aside, if approached I’d have to pass on that investment (that being bringing such a car to market).

K

[QUOTE]Originally posted by David B:
Hold on a second. I do not recall reading anywhere that the new DT saviour is going to produce a "sports car."

I'n my humble opinion there is NO WAY that the marque can be ressurected without the Pantera!!
What value would it have without the Pantera being their halo car?? The only thing that I am aafraid of is that it is going to be such an outrageous performer that it is going to be priced accordingly.

These are good times as far as performance cars go. Everything on the street today for the most part can outperform the supercars of yesterday, so why not another supercar? It doesn't have to be a 200 MPH car either, it just has to hit the right notes and stand out from the crowd.

Me personally, I would mind if were an Italian vette competitor. I would endeavor to say that many here wouldn't either.
Good times are coming, I just hope I can afford them!!

The new DeTomaso SUV is something more for European tastes where these type of vehicles are currently, very popular. The Pantera is on a fast-track though.
Possible options will include an electric engine with as much as 1,000 pounds of torque. The folks involved with the DT marque have a large production facility already making engines like this.
I can't compare the new Corvettes at all to what is planned for the new Pantera. You can see a 'Vette on every corner. With only about 500 Panteras or so coming to the U.S., it will be a very exotic automobile. Also, I know at least six Pantera owners who have Ford GTs and were willing to lay down over 100K for them even with larger production numbers then the planned Pantera output. With a few thousand Ford dealers in this country, I wouldn't be surprised if most of them wouldn't want to have a show piece like the all aluminum Pantera in their showroom to generate a buzz. I would be very surprised with such low production numbers if the new Pantera is a dud.

Wow, Dave. If a Pantera is really in the works; looks like some of the radical new designs we've seen here; and will be a limited production, all aluminum number, with something as exotic as a 1,000 ft lb torque electric motor - well, then that would certainly have no trouble selling out here in North America. And $100k would be a very lo cost for a supercar of this type. Such a car would likely impact our original cars in a very positive way!

I think the new Pantera will be around $150K. It seems like a small fortune but everyday, people throw down that kind of money for fancy Mercedes, Maseratis, Porsches and Ferraris. If a small percentage of those consumers shift over to the Pantera, they should be all snapped up.

An electric anything other than windows Pantera is a travesty and I would NEVER consider it in the least!!!!!!!! Dreams die hard these days I guess..... I was soooo looking forward to this car.

quote:

Originally posted by David B:
Wow, Dave. If a Pantera is really in the works; looks like some of the radical new designs we've seen here; and will be a limited production, all aluminum number, with something as exotic as a 1,000 ft lb torque electric motor - well, then that would certainly have no trouble selling out here in North America. And $100k would be a very lo cost for a supercar of this type. Such a car would likely impact our original cars in a very positive way!

100% Electric motor with a 1,000 ft lb of torque might be cool? But, Nobody ever talks about a road trip? with type of car. Couple hundred miles? Now what? Recharge where, how long?