#2241 - Engine rebuild

quote:

Originally posted by LIV1S:

I think he relocated the oil pressure sending unit to the port next to the fuel pump. I did the same thing to mine for a cleaner look.

Aha - But that's very close to the oilpump, ofcause, and the pressure will maybe be higher there ? Isn't it better to have it in the rear of the engine ?

quote:

Aha - But that's very close to the oil pump, of cause, and the pressure will maybe be higher there? Isn't it better to have it in the rear of the engine ?

Maybe. Pressure is pressure and if you take readings off the FRONT of the engine, they will be 10-15 psi higher than from the rear, and not relate to what most of us get for oil pressure.

Note also that stock gauge readings are ALWAYS wrong- usually low- due to a mismatch between the Italian gauge and the U.S. sender. I use my console gauge to tell if there's ANY oil pressure; I have a mechanical gauge permanently mounted on a tee fitting in back along with the sender when I want to know how much pressure I have with 2% accuracy.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to reinstate the Ford "idiot" light on a small led on the dash.

It will turn on when there is less than 10psi in the system.

Racers use "idiot" lights all of the time since it's difficult to focus your eyes even momentarily on a gauge when you are at triple digits.

Some use a big red light mounted to the steering column that flashes at the driver. I'm sure that in some cases that's not even enough.

Maybe a monkey that comes out of the glove box and slaps the driver into consciousnesses?

So that's why Michael Jackson had a monkey!? I thought it was for something more nefarious.

I feel the same about the sending unit location. On my Mach 1 I have it in the port behind the intake. I've always read about the poor oiling, so wanted the measurement as far from the pump as possible. As much as I don't want it visible in the back for the Pantera, I will do the same again. My $0.02.....

quote:

Originally posted by Bosswrench:

quote:

Aha - But that's very close to the oil pump, of cause, and the pressure will maybe be higher there? Isn't it better to have it in the rear of the engine ?

Maybe. Pressure is pressure and if you take readings off the FRONT of the engine, they will be 10-15 psi higher than from the rear, and not relate to what most of us get for oil pressure.

Note also that stock gauge readings are ALWAYS wrong- usually low- due to a mismatch between the Italian gauge and the U.S. sender. I use my console gauge to tell if there's ANY oil pressure; I have a mechanical gauge permanently mounted on a tee fitting in back along with the sender when I want to know how much pressure I have with 2% accuracy.

yes... but at what pressure are you gonna pull the engine and have a rebuild ??? Knowing=measuring is knowledge but when to decide something ? OK, we don't speak of adding oil, change visco etc...what pressure is alarming ?

posted January 17, 2014 10:15 AM

quote:

yes... but at what pressure are you gonna pull the engine and have a rebuild ??? Knowing= measuring is knowledge but when to decide something ? OK, we don't speak of adding oil, change visco etc...what pressure is alarming ? Wink

Qualifiers: taking pressure from the back end of the engine using a calibrated gauge, below 10 psi hot at idle usually means a rebuild is in your near future. Pressures ABOVE 100 psi (cold) usually means you got sales-talked into some sort of 'special' oil pump that wastes horsepower and rapidly wears distributor drive gears- again pointing to at least a partial refurbishment soon.

This side of LeMans, a std plain-vanilla 351-C oil pump in a nice tight engine will give 15-25 psi (hot) at idle and 70 psi (hot) at 2500 rpms. For decades trouble-free, if you pair the pump with a fully baffled 10-qt oil pan. I personally like Aviaid's pan. Most engine overhaul shops in the U.S will no longer warranty a Pantera engine with a stock pan.

I've run my Autometer mechanical gauge from both locations and got the same measurement.

I wouldn't sweat it.

With a stock pump pressure shouldn't drop below 15psi at idle. You don't need 100 psi at idle.

I like the high volume pump as a compromise. Mine gives me 80 psi cold and will drop to about 45 to 50 hot.

The old racers adage about pressure is that all you need at idle is 10 psi and 10 psi per 1,000 rpm. That would translate to 70 psi at 7,000 rpm.

An extra capacity pan like the Aviad is an excellent idea. It is not difficult to out drive the ability of the stock pan capacity in a Pantera. In fact it is pretty common.

It is a high performance vehicle. You need at least a high performance oil pan.

Nice info about oilpressure. This is one of my biggest concerns when builing my engine. Don't want my new bearings and crank to look like the parts that I got in hand, when pulling the engine apart !!

Still thinking about what parts I will use for my new build. But so far my list is like this:

D2AE-CA 4 bolt main block
Scat 408 stroker crank
Probe forged dished pistons 0.020" (9.8:1 @ 64cc )
Clevite 77 bearings
Scat I beam rods
D0AE-N Closed chamber 4V heads (62.8cc)
Manley Stainless valves
Scorpio roller rockers
Crane Guideplates and studs

Lunati roller cam kit ‪#‎20320712K‬
RPM Range: 2600 - 6600
Lift with 1.6 Rocker: .611"/.611"
Duration @ .050": 231/239
Advertised Duration: 282/290
112/106: 110/106

Lunati Roller lifters (In Kit)

Holley Ultra Double Pumper Carburetor 0-76750BK
Performer RPM Air Gap, Dual Plane or Weiand X-CELerator, Single Plane (Don't know what would be best ?)
Mallory Unilite ignition
Aviaid Oil Pan

Do You Guys think it will Work ?

Pulled my heads apart, and delivered them to the engine shop. They are not bad, but will be recieve new bronze bushings and stainless steel valves




Also bought a new suspension kit from Maserati Source, so I started to take it all apart. The Rotors, hubs, bearings and balljoint is brandnew, so no need to replace that. But the bushings are dry and worn out.




A Little tap with this fork and a hammer does the trick


Ready for some hard Work removing the bushings. And then it's off to the blaster.

Next step is a treatment with KBS Coating in the rear Wheel wells.

That should protect me from rust in a long time, I hope !

With the suspension control arms taken out, do you spot any axial "misalignment" in between the two bushing "tubes" of each individual A-arm?

Took mine apart a while back, and was baffled by the way mine were "aligned"... I did expect the both tubes to be perfectly in line with each other

An impression:

WOW !! That seems odd !! I haven't checked if mine are like that. I hope not.....

Hmmmm...that does seem undesirable. Would seem logical that this would cause premature bushing wear.

I would hope some one here would have the drawing dimensions for suspension components

Counting pixels, i show both ends are about 4 degrees

are you showing both sides of the car the same?

I have found some frame dimensions (not the best nor clearest) that might help by giving the spacing between the two frame brackets

Awesome work Heine! Great to see the car so rust free.

Thanks for sharing.

-William

Nice information, JFB !

I'm started sanding the engine compartment. All the spotwelds have to be invisible. So bondo and sandingpaper is now my new friends



And ofcause my 17" sanding board




With Dire Straits on the stereo and the lightbars turned on, it's not that big a deal to sand.

My handbrake cables where strating to crack. The cable is working fine, but to avoid Water etc. to enter, I had to figure out how to repair it.



So solution was to fix it with Flexible insulating sleeves. Now they will last for many years, I hope...

Looks like a great part list for your new motor. I have had a couple of 408 stroked motors and have been very happy with power and reliability.

@Rapid: I hope that it will Work better than the engine I pulled. I bought some Trick Flow heads for it though, instead of using my close chamber iron heads.

Some updates on my engine/enginebay tune-up

Masking the Whole car up - With the cheapest I could find - Old newspapers. Works fine



And then it's time for Etch Primer


After the primer, I spray on the Black filler


Sanding the filler is next, and then a coat of semigloss Black paint.

And with that done, I can start reassembling the rearend. New bushings etc. ofcause...



Reinstalling the gastank - Painted with POR-15



Transmission steamcleaned and painted with some special aluminum paint. Only sprayed on a VERY thin coat of paint.

Heine - looks great! Keep the pictures coming!

Rocky

Great progress Heine! Lookin good....!!

Thanks Guys !

A Little update on the engine rebuild

Build Sheet:

4-bolt main block – 0.020″
408 Scat Stroker kit…
Probe dished pistons
Scat I beam rods
Lunati hyd. roller cam #20320712
Lunati hyd. roller lifters
Scorpion 7/16″ roller rockers
TFS Powerport 225 CNC ported heads, 60cc Chambers
TFS Trackheat Intake 3000-6800 rpm
Mallory Unilite
Melling blueprinted oilpump
Holley 750 Ultra DP
Cloyes Double Rollerchain
Pioneer Balancer
Tim Meyer “Restrictor” cambearings
Aviaid 9qt. oilpan
Wilkingson headers

Expected output: 550-575 HP and 650-700 NM



Engine bored .020 over and decked.


Care package from Summit Racing - GOOD STUFF !






Installing the Spiral Locks in the pistons from Probe. What a pain in the butt ! But I got good at it....


Fresh balanced 408 Stroker from Scat.


Ready to put in the crank. Pre Lubrication is the keyword here !


Rubber seal mounted as it should be. Many does this wrong ! Rememeber to put some gasketsealer at the ends of the seal.


Trying the endplay of the crank before putting on the maincaps. And after installing then, try Again.


Adjustable pushrod, so I can fugure out the correct lenght to use. I figured out that 8.1" would be the right lenght to use, instead of the stock 8.4"


Testfit....


Looks right on target. Rolls over the middle of the valvestem

I like it. Very nice. Needs great headers.

Trans looks great. Wish mine were that clean

Heine,

That engine is looking spectacular! I am eagerly awaiting the final result with the finished engine bay and that beast nestled inside you will have the most amazing Pantera in Denmark and probably northern Europe! Keep up the posts and great work!

Mark

quote:

most amazing Pantera in Denmark

Hhmmm!

Well Mark, you're probably right

And I appreciate Heine is aiming for 550-575HP, that's the HP everybody living near me should aim for

Thank You all for Your kinds Words - but the most beautyful Pantera in Denmark.....??? Naaaa, I know several that are better looking than mine. But it's getting there, step by step.

Hopefully the engine is back on it's place later this month. Can't wait to hear it roar Again.

More engine update.
Today my son and I got the TFS heads installed, among a few other things.




Installing the Aviaid oilpan


Starting to look good


Holley 750 DP Ultra


Bought new wires just before I took the engine apart. But now I see, that blue cables don't Work for my new build. Have to change then to Black later !

looks great! Its nice to see another Stray Cats fan on the board!

@Tajon

Yeah, I'm a huge fan of Brian Setzer and Stray Cats. So naturally I have their logo tattooed on my skinny arms

quote:

Originally posted by danishcarnut:
@Tajon

Yeah, I'm a huge fan of Brian Setzer and Stray Cats. So naturally I have their logo tattooed on my skinny arms

Sorry to derail the thread....he's one of my favorites too
can you tell me about steam cleaning the ZF?

Lookin great Heine! The one shot looks like Christmas morning in your garage with all the presents any boy could want..all spread out on the floor.