quote:Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
I don't understand your post. Is Mass Flow the name of a company that makes a unit like this?
Mass-flo 351c System
Check it out.
Mass-flo 351c System
Check it out.
Mass-flo 351c System
Check it out.
OK. Got it now. Thanks.
...and thanks GP. That would tend to explain why I can't find a listing for the CHI heads intake gaskets.
...and thanks GP. That would tend to explain why I can't find a listing for the CHI heads intake gaskets.
quote:Originally posted by Corey Price:quote:Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
I don't understand your post. Is Mass Flow the name of a company that makes a unit like this?
Mass-flo 351c System
Check it out.
The picture in their 351C ad is a Windsor engine.
I thank everyone for their input here.
I understand that a lot of these things are about taste. The Mass-flow is just not my taste. To me that type of set up is pure street rod or more correctly a rat rod, which in my eyes a Pantera is not.
I think that the reason people were attracted the the Australian manifold was because of the appearance of sophistication on a sophisticated looking vehicle.
How the manufacturer can justify $2500 just for the manifold is beyond me. I'd build a sheet metal manifold before I would go there.
The chances are that Edelbrock is never going to go to the expense of tooling for a Cleveland for their new series. A 351w probably yes.
However in my own particular case I'm not pushed into a corner on this. I'm already set up to go with a Weber 48ida manifold and planning on converting the carbs to throttle bodies.
Personally I like the comp/retro look of the Gp.3 and 4 cars. This all fits right into those plans.
It is disappointing that the Australian unit is so expensive but the fact that he has one in stock is probably significant. It's probably the only one ever made. He certainly has no grasp on the fact that there might be a market and that there might be other products available, at least eventually. That's not my concern though nor am I his.
Oh well. Thanks for everyones input.
I understand that a lot of these things are about taste. The Mass-flow is just not my taste. To me that type of set up is pure street rod or more correctly a rat rod, which in my eyes a Pantera is not.
I think that the reason people were attracted the the Australian manifold was because of the appearance of sophistication on a sophisticated looking vehicle.
How the manufacturer can justify $2500 just for the manifold is beyond me. I'd build a sheet metal manifold before I would go there.
The chances are that Edelbrock is never going to go to the expense of tooling for a Cleveland for their new series. A 351w probably yes.
However in my own particular case I'm not pushed into a corner on this. I'm already set up to go with a Weber 48ida manifold and planning on converting the carbs to throttle bodies.
Personally I like the comp/retro look of the Gp.3 and 4 cars. This all fits right into those plans.
It is disappointing that the Australian unit is so expensive but the fact that he has one in stock is probably significant. It's probably the only one ever made. He certainly has no grasp on the fact that there might be a market and that there might be other products available, at least eventually. That's not my concern though nor am I his.
Oh well. Thanks for everyones input.
Ohhhhhhhh Doug ......
Tease, tease .....
That my friend is a modified Wieand tunnel ram.
Tease, tease .....
That my friend is a modified Wieand tunnel ram.
At least three Pantera owners have successfully modified an EFI base from a 351W to fit the Cleveland block, and have thousands of highway miles on the assembly. The key is to find a really patient TIG-welder with a band-saw and lots of time, and mock up on a spare block & heads. They also started with an aftermarket assembly that fits under a stock engine screen. The tops can be shaved a little for clearance.
This is an example of what Jack is referring to ....
This work was done by Jim Murch. He employed a Trick Flow EFI manifold (upper and lower), the lower half has been modified to fit onto 351C 4V heads. The work required was extensive, much more extensive than modifying a tunnel ram. The manifold bolt holes of a 351W are all verticle, only the 4 center manifold bolts are verticle on a 351C. The 351W manifold bolt holes must be re-drilled to work on a 351C. The rear valley rail must be modified. Material had to be welded around the flanges for the larger 4V ports and then milled flat. Jim also spent time opening up the manifold runners to make them closer in size to the 4V ports. Jim's work looks absolutely first rate, the finished product doesn't look like a modified manifold, it looks like it was out-of-the-box.
Keep in mind, Trick Flow has developed a 351C 2V EFI manifold lower that makes all this work unecessary, its a direct bolt-on. And it mates with Trick Flows 351W EFI upper manifolds. Hopefully Trick Flow will make the flanges tall enough that the EFI lower will work with both 2V & 4V heads; this is what Edelbrock did with their new RPM Air Gap intake.
-G
This work was done by Jim Murch. He employed a Trick Flow EFI manifold (upper and lower), the lower half has been modified to fit onto 351C 4V heads. The work required was extensive, much more extensive than modifying a tunnel ram. The manifold bolt holes of a 351W are all verticle, only the 4 center manifold bolts are verticle on a 351C. The 351W manifold bolt holes must be re-drilled to work on a 351C. The rear valley rail must be modified. Material had to be welded around the flanges for the larger 4V ports and then milled flat. Jim also spent time opening up the manifold runners to make them closer in size to the 4V ports. Jim's work looks absolutely first rate, the finished product doesn't look like a modified manifold, it looks like it was out-of-the-box.
Keep in mind, Trick Flow has developed a 351C 2V EFI manifold lower that makes all this work unecessary, its a direct bolt-on. And it mates with Trick Flows 351W EFI upper manifolds. Hopefully Trick Flow will make the flanges tall enough that the EFI lower will work with both 2V & 4V heads; this is what Edelbrock did with their new RPM Air Gap intake.
-G
No doubt 2500 is a hefty sum, at that price I would rather have Hogans build me a custom sheetmetal intake.
quote:Originally posted by Cowboy from Hell:
Ohhhhhhhh Doug ......
Tease, tease .....
That my friend is a modified Wieand tunnel ram.
These are all nice. The Wieand is my favorite. It really is a cheaper and therefore to me at least a better way to go. I don't see where a front or rear exit is going to fit under any kind of screen in the case of the Pantera, the Mustang style center mount throttle body would be the way to go.
I thought Edelbrock had mentioned they were going to make a lower for a Cleveland about two years ago?
In my case GP, to adapt a 4v intake to a "Motorsport" head, the lower portion of the intake ports needs to be filled on the intake manifold. Those heads all are missing material to the head that would make filling the ports necessary. I suppose you could make an adapter plate? I think I have those still hanging on the wall in my shop?
I still love my A3's and whenever I read Dan Jones comments he still compares the flow of new heads to his C302B's and A3's. Interesting to me that I have never seen the B351 heads mentioned anywhere.
I guess those must be the rarest of the series? They were supposed to be bolt ons for 351 size engines.
Thanks for the info on the Chi heads. It has been hard for me to find tech info on them.
For me my plan still remains to switch the Webers on my A3 Weber intake to throttle bodies. It has just been sidetracked by lack of capital but will get there eventually.
Actually that isn't all bad because it enables small improvements in technology to appear and be developed by someone else and saves a lot of re-inventing the wheel
stuff.
$2500 for just the manifold is just ridiculous. It isn't a perfect manifold at all. It is still kind of unfinished on the top where you can see it on the Pantera. Someone should get a grasp on reality. Maybe it should be me?