434 Dyno

Good luck!

Dan

Gary, good luck and Godspeed my good man. Remember always, you are the proud owner of the ONLY big block Cleveland on the face of the planet.

Thanks guys, I thought there had been at least some one else with a 400 but I don't know who.

No sir Gary. No one else had the vision and the balls you got. So we just sat here and watched while you took all the risk. Now you deserve your reward. The man who made the big block Cleveland. Enjoy your new found fame. You deserve it.

LOL, it takes less balls when you find the right bellhousing!

Go Gary ..... would love to see it on the Dyno... but Indiana is a little far from NY .. LOL



Ron

Well Ron, the engine is in MN and frankly, well, It's a long way from Indiana too! especially the southern tip!

Gary

best wishes Gary......hope that motor kicks butt!

> Thanks guys, I thought there had been at least some one else with a 400 but
> I don't know who.

I know of one other that belonged to a guy I met when I lived in Atlanta:

"Well, here's the info most of you have been waiting for....I took the Pantera
motor to Cobra Restorers, in Kennesaw, GA, after getting fed up w/not being
able to tune the carbs up properly, and then had it dynoed by my engine
builder, when he got up above 4000 rpms I left the room b/c I was afraid
what might happen. Here are the results:

RPM HP TQ
2000 158 415
2500 212 445
3000 274 480
3500 352 527
4000 431 566
4500 500 583
5000 543 571
5500 567 541
6000 577 505
6500 567 458

Here are the engine parts:
Ford 400 FMX block, bored .030", 4-bolt main (Pro-Gram caps)
Stock rods/crank
Arias forged pistons
351C 4V heads, ported, 2.19/1.76 SS valves, 11:1 CR
Comp Pro Magnum 1.73 intake/1.8 exhaust roller rockers
Hall Pantera manifold
PME intake spacers
Weber 48 IDA's, 45mm chokes, Inglese needle/seats/circuits
Comp 32-771-8 Magnum roller cam
GTS Equal-length 2" headers"

----------------------------------------------
Part Number 32-771-8
Engine 1970-1982 Ford
351ci-400ci
351C, 351M-400M,
8cyl.
Grind Number FC 288R-10
Description
----------------------------------------------
Intake Exhaust
Valve Adjustment 0.02 0.02
Gross Valve Lift 0.623 0.623
Duration At 0.015 288 288
Tappet Lift

Valve Timing At 0.015:
Open Close
Intake 38 70
Exhaust 78 30

Specs For the Cam Installed at 106 Intake CL:
Intake Exhaust
Duration At 0.05 244 244
Lobe Lift 0.3666 0.3666
Lobe Separation 110

Recommended Valve Springs 929-16
150 lbs @ 1.90"
434 lbs @ 1.23"
437 lb/in

Dan Jones

Geese 577hp. I am not expecting that much out of mine. We went for a moderate but torqy cam. Our whole key was power without rpm for durability. It makes you wonder why anyone would mess with the complexity of turbos.

Gary

Gary, have you thought about changing gear ratios? With that much torque, way down in the rpm scale, you are going to go through the gears faster than a hot knife through butter. You may need to widen out the gear to gear ratio.

Not yet. One thing at a time. DQ re-built the trans about 2 years ago so it doesn't need anything. I am balancing 4 cars right now. I am finishing up a restoration on an MGB with a V6 conversion. I have a 73 TA which I am tweeking. I have this Pantera and 1280 which is next up for a nut/bolt restoration. I just have to put things in order and take them one by one.

Gary

Holy Cow Gary. You got way too much goin on all at once. I had no idea. I knew abot the MG. There is a Alpha Remeo local I have been toying with picking up to drop something in. The guy want $200 for it and I am sorely tempted.
I used to have a 75 TA. Those used to be kinda cool cars.

I am just about done swapping rear end gears in the TA. It had 3.73's and I couldn't hardly stand it. The 455 has better heads and cam then what was original. Going down the highway 60mph at 3200rpm was driving me nuts. I put in 3.08's. When you have a Pantera, who would want to go around cones in a TA. This is the "Drive Inn" car for taking the family on short trips.

Rear end gear changes suck!

Gary

> Geese 577hp. I am not expecting that much out of mine. We went for a
> moderate but torqy cam.

Yes, he was running a big solid roller cam. I was surprised he made that sort
of power with the 48 IDA's and GTS headers. The 48mm Webers start to become
restrictive around 480 HP (Shelby ran them on 289's but 58mm Webers were used
on the 427's). I don't recall if Bill put a larger collector on the headers
or not.

Dan Jones

Dan are you going to do this with your FMX block?

Gary

Tell me about it. I had a 68 firebird 400 and it came with 2.88 rear end. Yeah that isn't a misprint. That was back in the day when the speed limit on the interstate was 75. I had a college buddy who wanted me to goose it at 75 mph. Well I downshifted to third and just walked away from his dodge swinger like it was parked. He was amazed.
So is your 455 the SD?? I am just a tad jealous, I must admitt.

quote:

Originally posted by DeTom:

So is your 455 the SD?? I am just a tad jealous, I must admitt.

No just a 455. When I was 17, I had a $500 car. Dad said I could get another one. I found a 73 just like the one I have now. I told him about it. He asked what engine. I said 455. He said "Son, ain't no way in hell your getting a car with a 455!". It was imprinted ever since. I finally fgot it. Back then is was about $2200. Now it was 10x that much:

Ahhh, it looks a lot like my old car. Same color scheme. I had thsoe Doug Thourly show tubes with side pipes on mine. Kept falling off in the snow. I got my first real girl friend with that car. She didn't marry me though. She had her chance and blew it. The memories that brings back.

High school cars. You know I had a 77 Cutlas. I would love to have another one just like it. Who in their right mind would want a 77 cutlas (other then me). It is the charm of the TA too. I get the same smells and feelings when I hop in.

Gary

Yeah I was a little bit older when I bought mine I guess. I bought it as a new car for $5,400 bucks. That was a lot of money back then. But I had a real good paying job after I had graduated college. I made over $8,000 bucks a year.!!

quote:

Dan are you going to do this with your FMX block?

Probably not. I've got the Fontana as a primary and the XE as a backup. Can't see ever using the FMX.

Dan

quote:

Originally posted by comp2:
I am just about done swapping rear end gears in the TA. It had 3.73's and I couldn't hardly stand it. The 455 has better heads and cam then what was original. Going down the highway 60mph at 3200rpm was driving me nuts. I put in 3.08's. When you have a Pantera, who would want to go around cones in a TA. This is the "Drive Inn" car for taking the family on short trips.

Rear end gear changes suck!

Gary

3200rpm at 60 with 3.73s doesn't sound right with the tires pictured, sure your tach is correct? What diameter are the tires? My Yellow Boss302 car runs the stock 3.91 and 255-60-15 tires, yep, it buzzy on the highway but doesn't turn quite that high. The GT350 with 225-60-15s and and 3.89 doesn't turn that high in 4th either, but thank god for that .63 5th in the T5Z, makes for a great driver.

Woo - that's the same gearing as my Rapier.
I has 3.89 and 195-60-15.
Very glad of the overdrive on 3rd & 4th otherwise 80mph is a bit loud

Thanks Jonk, yea it's pretty close. My spedo is off because it originally had 3.42's. 60 actually shows about 2900 but I think 3200 is pretty close to 60. I think 3rd is one to one; no overdrive. It is wailing and the gas gage swings as fast as the second hand on the clock! It takes off and will do burn outs from 2nd a little over half throttle! It's only a 3speed.

Either way I think 3.08's will be a lot better. I'll get the oil in this weekend and see how she runs. Then I got to get it to the transmission shop to get it adjusted. He had a shift kit in it. Not only does it shift hard but it's shifting down to soon.

Just normal tweaking!

Gary

Hooking it up. Looks like thursday right now:



Gary

I bet you're as excited as a 6 year old on Christmas Eve!!!!.

quote:

Originally posted by johnk:
I bet you're as excited as a 6 year old on Christmas Eve!!!!.

You can say that again. With a 12 hr drive to get there I'll be trying not to drive like a madman to get up there.

Gary, I got some kind of bad news. I don't think that will fit under your engine screen. It looks a might too tall.

Now you tell me!:



As I ssaid before the owner used to have Webbers. Evidently he made this box to mount the webber air breathers. With that thing gone I figure my rearward vision can only improve.

Gary

Well if you want to sell the Weber air cleaners I might be interested. Did he butcher the air cleaner bases?
Incidentally pretty car. Do you know what red that is. I'm trying to pick a color to use.
Well there's #500.

They are bolted on the box and are intact. The plan is to change this to webbers. I have the webbers already but not till I get the bugs out. Actually, I want to get this runing again and sort out the oil cooler and a few things, do a nut bolt restoration on 1280, then dive into a full re-do on this car. It will probably be 3 years before I am ready to do a full work over on this car.

As far as the red, the pictures are probably not the best to judge the color by. In fact, the picture looks by far better then the car actually looks. If you are looking for red I would sugest going to the paint store and looking at there "pure red" chart. Many reds such as "Viper red" "Ferrari Red" are pure reds and all fall on the chart some where even though they may have a seperate chip. This is my MG I painted. The red is one very slight shade brighter then Vipper red:
http://www.rc-tech.net/MGB/paint1/webered.jpg
http://www.rc-tech.net/MGB/homestretch/carjan06.jpg
http://www.rc-tech.net/MGB/

Pictures still are not a very good representation.

Gary

Hey Gary,

If your serious about putting Webers on your 400, I may be able to help out with the intake. I may have a set up part from which that you could potentially make a 3-piece intake. Cnc'd runners. You'd just have to make a valley pan. I'd maker ya deal.

Kelly

I would deffinantly be interested! The 400 would have the same set up as a Cleveland only a wider valley pan. I might need high ise opening with these heads. I have the Webbers and the Hall intake with adapter plates right now:




COOL CNC! Gary

Initial run:

http://www.rc-tech.net/cars/panttransam/1905/firstdyno.jpg

This is a conservative run. Timing retarded to 25 degrees, carb a little lean and headers on dyno too small. Probably make another run Monday. Deffinantly more power to be made!

Look how flat the TQ is! This is a low rpm engine; designed to be so.

Gary

Gary, that is a bitchen torque curve my friend, 498 ft/lbs average! Groovy. Not bad for a 1rst run, it'll get better too. Congrats.

your friend on the DTBB

Thanks George, about the same weight as a cleveland with aluminum heads (maybe a touch lighter), mild but torqy cam, low rpm power flat tq curve. All without the complication of turbo. Low rpm will limit bottom end problems and eliminate most valve problems along with creating an engine with great drivability and one that produces power in a wide rpm range.

Gary

Really nice Gary.
The curve looks just like a stroked 427 Ford.
Torque right off of idle. Kinda like a desiel has.
To me these engines are always a trade off. The cars always spin the tires off idle and wanna go sideways. Great Boulevard stop light kick ass personalities. Your tire dealer will be your best friend now.
Strictly strait line stuff now. No more curves for that baby.

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
Really nice Gary.
The curve looks just like a stroked 427 Ford.
Torque right off of idle. Kinda like a desiel has.
To me these engines are always a trade off. The cars always spin the tires off idle and wanna go sideways. Great Boulevard stop light kick ass personalities. Your tire dealer will be your best friend now.
Strictly strait line stuff now. No more curves for that baby.

Oh yea, there will be curves!

Gary