500 BHP 351 Cleveland

A 4" stroke??? Isn't that just a tad extreme????

quote:

Originally posted by DeTom:
A 4" stroke??? Isn't that just a tad extreme????

Its the longest stroke you should stuff in a Cleveland, but not extreme. The wrist pin hole in the pistons shall slightly intersect the oil ring groove, and therefore some oil burning shall result.

cowboy from hell

Would it be like when James Bond lets go his smoke screen???

Doesn't seem like a whole lot of info to me. Shouldn't there be some brand names, specifications, and build tips?
Lots of parts around. Which ones you choose seems to be kinda important...unless you're building a 500hp grenade.
Mooso

I only intend for the post to be a teaser. I've preached the stroker crank & hydraulic roller cam formula for 500 bhp. There's lots of posts where the details were laid out. Notice TL made the 500 bhp at or below 6000 rpm.

But I'll make it as easy as I can for you, just write these folks a check for $6K:

http://www.mmeracing.com/mmeracing/FeaturedPackages.aspx

I doesn't get any easier than that.

cowboy from hell

6K seems pretty darn reasonable for what you are getting. Now I have something more to save for.

That IS good. I've read every engine post by George and Daniel and the quirks and excentricities of a hypo Cleveland build have had me worried about doing one locally.
I've read that McKeoun has a good reputation. I'd sure feel better with one of their builds than a local hot-rod guy.
I assume, at that price, that they rebuild my engine...or do you think they provide the whole thing?
Mooso

Hi George, wanted to let you know I took your advice and went with 3.85 stroke for my Clevor build. (Just don't tell anyone it won't really displace 427, bore will be 4.125). I am also about 95% on the Hilborn EFI as Jeff with the GTS says his worked out really nicely. I will keep you posted. Dave Ferrato #5972

Great hearing from you Dave, keep us posted. I'd like to do a story on your Pantera when all is finished, you up for that? I'm sure others would like to read about your motor & car.

Are you still racing that Snortin' Norton?

George

Many of the Racing pistons (like drag racing pistons) have the wrist pin going through the oil ring. you see it alot on stroker motors. On my blue car I had the Ross racing pistons, and on the road courses you would see some smoke, in fact it might look like your valve stem seals were leaking, or something like that. Not so much on acceleration, but more when down shifting for a corner, etc..

I may be an old fuddy-duddy but IMO a Pantera shouldn't have a drag racing type engine. It should have an endurance racing type engine. Not that my opinion matters any, but there it is.

Here is a picture of a piston like we were talking about. You can see the ring groove is down in to the wrist pin area.

That's what I thought Mark. I sure hope so. I never saw the pistons go in but I looked them up at http://www.cppistons.com/Catalog.htm and it could well be. There are several pistons that meet the spec and look just like that.

Here's what I have.

Scat 4.00” Stroker Crank
Crower 6.00” Steel Connecting Rods
CP Pistons – Forged Flat Top 4.030” Bore
Speed-Pro Moly Ring Set #R9343-35

But going through 1/2 quart of oil (or more) per hour on the highway sounds pretty excessive. Can that much be forced out the exhaust valve without being burned?

If it was burning I would see it. I see black smoke for a second when I put the hammer down but never blue smoke.

Yes,

the pistons of a 4" stroke crank using a 6" rod will intersect the oil ring groove as in Kevin's picture, and it will cause "some" oil burning, but David's is way excessive. The last I had heard David you were going to use non synthetic oil in an attempt to seal the rings.

Here's something to consider. Another Pantera owner recently resolved an oil burning issue that had been busting his balls. It was a brand new motor, professionally built & they could not locate the source of the oil burning. Turns out that while the builder machined the heads for adjustable valve train, they employed a tapered tap to extend the threads further down the rocker stud bosses. The tapered tap has a pointed end. That pointed end of the tap actually broke through and put pin size holes into the intake ports. Even though these bosses had studs & guide plates tightened down inside them, they still allowed oil by and into the intake ports. The final solution was pipe sealant on the rocker studs, the oil burning has been resolved.

cowboy from hell

Thanks George, have not raced recently and I am afraid the bean oil may have the Norton gummed up. (although I have been putting the final touches on a Vincent Rapide for EBAY auction) I am still jamming trying to get back in the house from the Katrina damage. We will be back in Dec 1 regardless of whether it is ready or not. That is also the excuse for the lack of car progress, as our furniture is stacked all around it in the shop and all I can do currently is write checks and collect parts. Not to say this is not also fun, just frustrating. Hoping to come back from PRI with some more stuff (efi). The car will, I believe, be worthy of some edit, mainly because the guy I got it from had done some exceptional work and collected a ton of top shelf parts prior to selling me the "project". I 'm not sure who I am going to get to build the motor. I talked to Roush recently and they have built two Clevors recently so they are up to speed on the particulars. the McKeown guys also seem like a good prospect. I have a guy here who would be absolutely precise, but without Ford experience. Originally I had planned to have James Lyle in Georgia put it together. He is a Ford guy and spent time with Ernie Elliot. Anyway, I will keep you posted. Thanks as always for your contribution to the forum. Dave Ferrato

George and Mark,

Thanks for the efforts.

In the case that Geroge refers to, with oil getting into the intake ports, the oil would burn and would be visible as blue smoke. Correct?

Mine is blowing out - or by - and is unburned. No smoking ever.

It was suggested that my motor was still new and hadn't seated yet and the synthetic was too thin during break in. Possible, since I hadn't done much mileage. But now it's got at least 2,000 miles on it.

When I used the synthetic I had tiny clean droplets of oil on the rear window glass and across the rear face of the car above the bumper. Since I changed to non-synthetic I get no dropslets, just a thick dark yellow, dry, oil film evenly across the rear, edge to edge above the bumper. And consider this, it is not evident on short trips or stop and go driving. Only during long runs (2+ hrs) on the highway.

When I put my foot down, guys behind me have said they see a puff of black. But only for a second. After 2 hrs on the highway, I have a nice thick black sooty collection on top of the bumper just above where the exhausts exit. I know I am running rich (I don't see the downside there) but don't want to confuse the two issues. The inside tips of my exhaust pipes are black and soooty but not oily or greasy.

I'm still stumped.

I am running a stroker, but only a 3.7 inch stroker. Still the wrist pin is pretty close to the oil ring. The pistons are wiesco and are the narrow low tension type. I do have some oil consumption after 15000 hard miles but expect it due to the narrow rings. I have also had some rich fuel conditions which may have contributed. No real blue smoke or oil on the back of the car. I go throug about a quart after about 3 hours on the highway but the oil consumption reduces after it gets a quart low to about a quart every 5 hours.

I do have turbos and this puts an extreme load on the engine. I believe some of my oil consumption is from the turbo inlet seals.

BTW, I am at about 600HP at 4000 rpm right now. Hope for more once my crank trigger problem is figured out.

quote:

Originally posted by deeb:
I know I am running rich (I don't see the downside there)

Just untapped power wasted

I know conventional wisdom is to put a stroker crank in to get enough flow to let the cleveland heads work for you, but I still think maybe just spinning a couple thousand r's higher to get the flow may be a better deal overall. That way you don't have to change gear ratios to get over the magic number.