A better way?

There has got to be a better way to change out the clutch master cylinder than what I have been through. No I don't have a service manual, if it was not full of pictures it would be of little use anyhow. Almost a full days work and it is still not right. I have done full on pantera engine swaps in less time and with less agrivation. I have been upside down in that little "toe hole" so long I have lost feeling in half my body. There is a pin that goes through the linkage that requires a clip on each end that is simply impossible to get on when the pin is in position. What kind of Devil worshiper would have concieved of such a design that you can not even put a clip on a pin when it is in position.
It would have been far easier to have pulled the entire peddle box out of the car.........infact I still may have to do that.
I almost have it now, except the linkage has somehow doubled back on itself (hard to explain) cant get the pin in, and yes the new master cylinder seems to leak fluid when fully depressed.
Never in a million years would I have guessed it to be this difficult. Is there a better way?
My next pantera will be a automatic roll on floor
Original Post
Its a real PITA, I did it once on the side of the road and we ended up pulling the clutch master off and IIRC doing it through the hole or the clutch master removal made it easier, can't recall exactly.

Julian
quote:
Originally posted by jb1490:
Some owners have cut a hole with a hole saw on the side of the foot box to gain access. Then used a snap-in plug or made a plate and attached it with screws so that it can be removed for the next time.

John


Great idea, I think I might just do that, Thanks for the tip
Jay
...I'am the Guy who drilled a 2.0" Hole with a HoleSaw! Directly opposite the 'Pin' on the Passenger Side of the 'PedalBox'. Now You can reach in 2 inches, with NeedleNose Pliers and Just Slip the Clip In!! It's Right In Front Of You! I covered the Hole with a 2.5" Square of Polished Stainless Steel Plate with 4 Stainless Sheetmetal Screws; one in each corner. The 'Extra Added Bonus' IS: You can also reach in with Your Wrench and Hold the Mounting Bolts from turning, when You try to loosen and Tighten the Outside Nuts!(an otherwise 'Two Man' Job) Save Yourself some Pain and use Your Head instead of Your Anger!...
I did mine just before Christmas. I tried for about three hours to get it in and then walked away. Came back later and it went straight in. The split pins were pretty difficult to get in, but I managed and I have hands that would put King Kong to shame!!

It can be done, just walk away for a while if it gets you down.
I changed the clutch master cylinder in a parking lot in France in 2010 (Le Mans Classic trip). It took less than an hour, with a friend. I was on the inside, he on the outside. It was easy I thought, except for some scraped elbows.

I'm not posting this to sound smart, but I don't see the problem, and I'm trying to help. Take of the pipe outside, loosen the two bolts (need a person on each end), remove the clip (took 1 minute with a set of pliers or a screwdriver, don't remember). When installing, it's easy to get the holes to align for the clevis, just move the pedal. If it's not, then I'd say your clutch master thingy is out of adjustment, maybe too long? Maybe that somehow reduces the leak? Just guessing.

Hope this helps. Confused
Thanks guys,
I am not angry, just not having the best of luck with this project. I do appriciate your support, it does help.
We all have those special little jobs that we dont even think twice about, have it done in a flash. Then....WOW!! Never expected it to be this tough.
As it sits now, I have pulled it back out of the car, I tore the rubber boot and am doing a little repair. Will try to install again on Friday.
I will make sure I breath deep, relax, think happy thoughts and if I have any trouble, I will call a flat bed and send it to a mechanic Big Grin
Here is my idea---Made a new pin from a bolt. Turned it to size in a drill press with a file. Left one end long for something to hold on to. Drill a hole thru it and use a hair pin clip. If you look closely @ the date stamp on pic you will see a small piece of square stock bent into a C. It has the bolts for the clutch master welded to it. Call it a "stud plate"

Mike

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Mike,
Good thinking.
Thanks for the pic. One thing I noticed, your linkage is different than mine, which might be contributing to my difficulties. I might try to get a pic of mine on Friday.
Seems a good many of us have had trouble with this little bugger of a pin.
Yeah I did this job a few months ago as well, and I'm roughly 6'3 215lbs, and trying to lay on your back in that awkward position, its just a royal pain. I'm lucky my wrists aren't that wide so it was easier. But I'll be honest, at one point I think I had my neighbor on the outside while I was on the inside getting it aligned. I think I got my girlfriend in there once as well since she had smaller arms/hands, but think I just gave in and took a break, then finally got it snugged up. It should go though, you just have to get your hands in the right spot. I unhooked the spring as well I think to get a little more room while I did it.
quote:
If you look closely @ the date stamp on pic you will see a small piece of square stock bent into a C.


Mike,

Is that the black curved piece that passes "underneath" the "0" in "02"?

You don't have the clutch pedal effort reduction kit installed, so that makes it a little easier to install the pin and clips.

Here is a pic of the "kit" installed. The pic was taken from the right side with the entire pedal assembly removed from the car.

John

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Hey QuickKitty, I laughed at the 'what kind of devil worshipper' comment.

My linkage actually dropped the pin out while driving and the next thing I knew my clutch pedal 'bound up' and wouldn't push at all. A pain.

Anyway, not sure if this helps, but I put the circlips back on the far end first, then

used a clamp to 'pull' all the pedals toward that end. (A bungee would work. Just something to compress and so you don't need 4 hands).

Then used hemostats with that stupid pin to guide it in. I'm way smaller than you, so that was a bonus, but still, once lined up, it went right together.

Hope this helps. Best wishes.
Hi Guys,
I think I got it now, its in. I definatly have the "effort reduction linkage" kind of a oxy moron if you ask me. Took twice the effort to install. Anyhow, just waiting to see if it leaks. Now the clutch does not enguage the flywheel until the peddle is almost fully released, not sure if that is good or not.
Quickitty, adjusting the Pantera clutch is not the most fun part of ownership. And tolerances are smaller than on most other cars. And if you have effort reduction kit, tolerances are even smaller. Below is a paste of my experience on this, hope it helps:
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FWIW, here’s a summary of how to adjust the clutch on the Pantera. Being used to automatic transmissions for decades, it was a new and complicated world that opened up to me when I bought a Pantera with a hydraulic clutch and especially how to adjust it. Having bought all the literature I soon found inconsistencies. I’ve read many sources including the Instruction Manual, the TSB, PanteraPlace and others. And they were quite different. I think now I finally understand how to do it, and if it can help others, below is the short simple (?) method I’ve used

First, the basics have to be right: A good master, slave, pipe and line. And a proper Pantera clutch, not just a Mustang clutch. Some recommends a long-throw slave, and that will make getting the right adjustment easier. But it’ll also increase clutch pedal effort, something you don’t want (except if you want to discourage the wife from driving ). And the fluid has to be free of air.

1. Master: pedal should be adjusted so at rest it’s between 0-½” closer to the driver than the brake pedal. Then test with a friend that with the pedal fully pressed down, there should be at least ½” gap to the firewall/carpet
2. Clutch axle arm: the almost vertical arm from the ZF to the slave rod end. Imagine a straight line from the clutch axle on the ZF up to where the clevis pin is. That line should be 90 degrees towards the slave. Ideally it should be 90 degrees when the clutch pedal is half pressed down. Any other angle will result in that the slave rod movement translates into less movement of the clutch axle. Maybe you should move it a notch? Also check that there’s free movement, when the clutch pedal is fully depressed, does the arm or the bolt/nut perhaps rub on the ZF? And get a proper size clevis pin, previous owner had just used a bolt that was 0.3mm less in diameter
3. Slave return bolt: Temporarily remove the spring. Use your hands or a tool to move the clutch axle arm rearwards, and feel for when it hits the resistance of the clutch. Should be easy to feel. While holding the arm in that position, turn the screw so that it almost touches the bracket, leaving a 2mm gap. This will ensure that a. there’s no wear on the clutch release bearing when the pedal is not pressed down, and b. that you get as much movement of the clutch as possible. Reinstall the spring
4. Slave rod: Some suggest that the rod is used to position the resting position of the clutch axle arm and that the return bolt should be thrown away. And some say this is not good, because the slave should not bottom out. I think the best is to use the return bolt as described in 3., and then adjust for almost maximum slave piston travel on the rod. Almost, so with no bottoming out. With the system at rest, take out the clevis pin and by hand press the slave rod all the way up in the slave. And then release 1mm. Do the holes now align so the clevis can be put back in? If not, adjust the length of the slave rod, so that they do

With all this done, you should have a clutch that neither slips nor grinds teeth. And of course you must press the clutch pedal all the way down every time. Happy shifting!
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Yeah, you wish for that automatic Wink
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