Big 10 Spoke Wheels on Pantera!

Hi Will,

Thanks.

Im not sure, but I suppose (in theory) you are governed by the fixed shape and positioning of the flare (and width of it) against bodywork, so i thought that they would have to be put on first and then work out the wheel size/offset afterwards. Then you shouldnt have to alter the flares or bodywork (they should remain stock - in the case of these fiberglass bolt on ones)?

Im not sure how it can work the other way around in this case, if you order the wheels first, i guess you need to get a fiberglass guy to alter the flares (cut them up etc) and make them fit over the wheels? I suppose you would be assured of a better fit, and that's what ended up happening with my first GT-4, but i really thought that if you bought the flares, you shouldnt need to go to all this trouble to alter them but instead get the wheel offset right?

Dont know how to solve the problem this time around because, as you can see on my new Pantera they are already bolted on and everything is already all painted up nicely? - anyone got any ideas on how i can get it exactly right this time? (Last time i had the old wheels on and tried to measure how much further out they had to be to fill out the flare)

As for the A-arms, i had washers in the lower ones which they removed/added to align the rear wheels. On my previous (red) Pantera, i had adjustable rose joints made (on the top a-arms) which was a good set-up to give the adjustment.

Hi Laslo. Makes sense to me. Put the flares on first and then order wheels to fit perfectly. I don't know why people would order wheels first. Maybe thats why so many have required spacers and longer studs.
Will

quote:

Originally posted by 4NHOTROD:
Hi Laslo. Makes sense to me. Put the flares on first and then order wheels to fit perfectly. I don't know why people would order wheels first. Maybe thats why so many have required spacers and longer studs.
Will

Most vendors fit flares around the selected wheels. Quella did my body work and he buys wheels and selects offset pretty much based upon experience but hangs the flares around the wheels with car fully weighted and suspension set at desired ride height. Most of the variability in placement is height but there is surprising variability fore and aft. Varaibility in body panel placement on a Pantera? Who'd have thunk it ;-)

Kelly

You would need the wheels (any wheels) for the placement of the flares in terms of height and fore/aft placement to ensure the opening was centered and even all the way around.
Incorrect backspacing however would force unneeded modification to the flares to adjust the amount they stick out. This really applies to fibreglass and not metal because metal flares are completely modified anyway.
In my case and Laslo's, wheels with proper backspacing can now be ordered without modifying the flares or the need for spacers or longer studs.
I just spoke to someone who ordered wheels from Byers and his rear BS is roughly 6". Don said they would be "perfect".
My rear BS is 4.35". He will be installing Hall flares like mine.
You can imagine that he is pretty upset after finding out that he has to modify his flares or adjust otherwise. I have spoken to many in the same scenario.
Will

As my friend Kelly mentioned, Pantera bodies are very often asymmetric. Whether this is due to variation in the several factory welding jigs used when the cars were created, or accidents and sag with time, I dunno. Quite a few cars have been 'clipped'- the entire front end has been replaced- often skillfully enough that new owners never realize it until they try maxing out the front wheels. But by measuring from both sides of both brake rotor faces out to a piece of plywood stood vertically against each fender opening(s), you can get a rough idea of how bad your car is. Some are fine; most aren't. On such Panteras, expect the right front suspension to stick out up to 1" MORE than the left, on a completely stock, undamaged '71-'76 Pantera. I have no info on wide-body cars made after Ford destroyed the original stamping dies and welding jigs.
By doing more measuring, you may find the welded front crossmember slants downward rather than being perfectly horizontal. This affects the entire front end but especially the right front fender opening.
A poor reproduction of the original factory body blueprint measurements was on the back pg of original Tech Service Bulletins (not in current reprints), but Euro engineers apparently did not adhere to ANSI specs in making such drawings, so it requires a bit of study. The pencil lines are impossibly thin (pre-computer dwg) so this pg does not reproduce.

quote:

Originally posted by DeMopuar:
Michael, those rims and tires are sick -- I love it!

Mark

Thanks Mark, I share your sentiments! How is your Pantera coming along? Do you have an update and some progress pictures to share with us?

quote:

Originally posted by wildpantera:
Michael (Cyboman): - your GT5-S is unreal mate!!! ... i wanna see more pics! ive always loved the GT5-S bodywork, a lot of the 5-S cars sit really good and the wheels fill out the guards nice.

LA

Laslo,

Here's another picture. I'm not sure what the distance difference is (if any) between GR4, GT5, and GT5-S flares from the frame rails (or other common point). Years back I posted some threads about how I measured for the backspacing on my Pantera, which of course had existing flares (guards). Do a search and maybe something there can prove useful to you.

Pictures of my Pantera are strewn throughout these PI forums. The 'Wheels Sticky' has one or two. If you can't find enough, I'll put together a quick album and post it in the 'Pictures' forum. Needless to say, I share your enthusiasm for my 5-S, mate!

Michael

thats awesome!!! ... i like it better than mine

cool, will look out for more pics ...

OMG!!

I have only just noticed that Panteras By Wilkinson sell the 15" diameter campy 10 spoke wheels in 13" and 10" wide!

I suppose these are reproduction, has anybody seen these in the flesh? what are they like? Has anybody bought them and put on their car, if so please show us pics!!

I wish they could also make 14" wide campys for our GT-4 cars, do you know where we could get any?

Are the front tyres still available, does anybody make them - 285's?? Also can you still easily get the rears 345's?

Too many questions i know, but it would be awesome to build an exact GT-4 replica!

Laslo

What are the specific make of wheels on your Black GT-4 and what tire make and sizes are you running. I understand these to be 16" front and 18" rear? Any data would be great.

Many thanks

quote:

Thanks Mark, I share your sentiments! How is your Pantera coming along? Do you have an update and some progress pictures to share with us?

Nothing to show right now. Car has been in same state at Wilkinson's for some time. I was just there not too long ago, and Steve has assured me that work will continue soon. I am still waiting patiently.

Later,

Mark

quote:

OMG!!

I have only just noticed that Panteras By Wilkinson sell the 15" diameter campy 10 spoke wheels in 13" and 10" wide!

I suppose these are reproduction, has anybody seen these in the flesh? what are they like? Has anybody bought them and put on their car, if so please show us pics!!

I wish they could also make 14" wide campys for our GT-4 cars, do you know where we could get any?

Are the front tyres still available, does anybody make them - 285's?? Also can you still easily get the rears 345's?

Too many questions i know, but it would be awesome to build an exact GT-4 replica

345's are readily available for 15" wheels. The fronts are hard to get.
Also, keep in mind that large brake systems can't be used with a 15" rim.
Will

I was able to fit Quella's Willwood calipers and rotors under 15" campys. Just a bit of grinding on the edge of some calipers.
Mark

Panterapatt
What are the specific make of wheels on your Black GT-4 and what tire make and sizes are you running. I understand these to be 16" front and 18" rear? Any data would be great.

---------------------------------

YES, I HAD 18x14" REAR AND 16x9.5" FRONT, CUSTOM MADE TO FILL OUT THE WIDE GT-4 FLARES. TYRES WERE MICHELLIN PILOT SPORT CUP 345/30/18 AND FALKEN 245/45/16. NEXT TIME I WILL GET 18x13.5" SO THAT 335'S CAN FIT.

quote:

Originally posted by ehpantera:
I was able to fit Quella's Willwood calipers and rotors under 15" campys. Just a bit of grinding on the edge of some calipers.
Mark

Little off-topic I know...but if allowed to:
Any pics of hat conversion - did you need adaptors of any kind?
I really want to stick with the 15' wheels I have now (and I love the old style balloon tires), but like to get some more modern brakes.

Kid, no adapter is needed for Wilwood Superlite 2s in front- just a thin shim to center the pads, but there are complications. The hole pattern in the Wilwoods is spread wider apart than stock Girling calipers. You can use the upper stock hole and bolt, and drill/tap a new hole at the correct location for a stock bolt. It's been a decade since I did this, but I think you'll have to ream out the Wilwood mount holes a bit for stock Pantera metric caliper mount bolts.
When you drill/tap a 3rd hole, it often gets dangerously close to falling through the steering arm bottom. The steering arm is forged steel, so a little judicious welding and filing on the bottom of the arm near the new hole will build up the area so it won't crack. Don't attempt to speed up cooling of any welds here. In any case, braking force is mostly upward so not much force is added to this area but if the new threaded hole gets close, I think its still a good idea to reinforce it a bit. And obviously, the stock french-lock plates won't fit the new bolt spacing either; I safety-wired the bolt heads together and have had no trouble.

Thanks Bosswrench

I've been searching the forum for what's possible in combination with 15' wheels, but not too happy with the results so far.

I sooner or later will start my own topic in regard to 15' wheel brake upgrades instead of hijacking this one I guess...