Big 10 Spoke Wheels on Pantera!

quote:

Ive only just joined and have never been on any forum before.

Well Laslo, we are glad you are now here.

Surely your ears were burning when your car came out in the P.I. magazine. Much discussion. I, along with others, really liked that way that car came together.

While my 2511 is a stock bodied car (I highly prefer that over the wide-bodies), I've always had a second-lusting for a GRP 4 body, and yours had just the right rake and proportions.

If you stick around this forum, I think you'll find us to be having a good time and sharing and helping each of us to more easily keep maintaining, and improving, our cars.

And in Alejandro's Neighborhood Pub, we toss away the car-talk and just have some good times, too.

Welcome!

Larry - Did your car stay in Oz, or perhaps come to the States where we might see it in person?

Hi Laslo,

You've got to tell us why you sold the black GT4 and are building another. What did you learn on the first GT4 that you would change on the latest build?

Also, what tire size and rims are you going with this time around? Wilkinson is doing my car in California, and we went with 19 inch 10 spokes in the rear and 18 inch 10 spokes on the front. As the car has steel flares going on, modifications were going to happen anyway, so..... why not?

Anyway, I did take a look at your website and your third car is coming along nicely. I will follow your progress; would love to know more details about your build and when you think it will be put together.

Cheers,

Mark

Welcome to the board Laslo! Love your cars! The new build looks amazing so far. Can't wait for updates. I would love to know more about the engine for it - cam specs., etc.

Laslo, you just joined? What took you so long?
Just wanted to say that pictures of your car from your website are all over my garage as well as part of my "Babes with Panteras" wall. Your car looks awesome. Keep us posted on your next build. And keep the pics coming!

Thanks guy's!

Only sold the GR-4 (traded it for the project car) to fund the hemi-challenger and hemi-cuda builds ... anyway, this GT-4 will be even better (the bodywork and paint is incredible)but i gotta finish the mopars first and also house renovations ... aarrrgghhhh!!, so unfortunately the new Pantera is going to sit there like that for a long time

Anyway, gotta figure out how the hell these things go back together ... haha! *laughs nervously* and will need to source some new parts and get some stuff made along the way.

The first (red) Pantera was 1971 #1217, the black GR-4 was 1971 #2059 and this new one is a 1974 #6943, it has a new engine build with edelbrock aluminium heads a re-built gearbox and lot of other new bits

Havent decided 100% on how this new car will look, maybe re-paint red/black and have brushed wheels and make it look closer to the factory GT-4?

Cant wait to check out all your cars some more ...

Show us the Mopars,
Big love for Challengers and Cudas here

The Pantera used repetitively in the back ground of the forums pages is Laslo's 2nd Pantera, the black group 4.

Welcome aboard mate.

-G

Are the flares on the new car standard GP4 ??
Where did you get them?

Thanks,
Ron

Hiya!

The flares on the new car are also fiberglass hall pantera flares (unmodified this time), im gonna have to be careful when i get my next wheels made so i dont stuff-up the offset this time ... !! (what sizes and offsets can you get with off-the-shelf ten spoke wheels nowadays?)

(cant wait to learn stuff about panteras off ya'all, im gonna need to know how this goes back together)

you can see the mopars on my website (The challenger is almost finished and the cuda is getting assembled):
http://wildpantera.com

these new tyres look cool but are really soft (and not high speed rated), they are BF Goodrich G-Force drag radial 345/30/18s and look great on a mucle car (you can also see the new flare here) ... you will notice on my previous GT-4 the top of the rear flare sits higher than the unmodified one, this happened because i widened it (this also possibly gave the car the appearance to be lower coz the flare sat higher up the bodywork)

previous pantera rear flare ...

Welcome to the 4UM LASLO.

Always admired that last car of yours. Can't wait to see what you do with this one.

Maybe a little more radical or less?

Warm Alohas

Did your car stay in Oz, or perhaps come to the States where we might see it in person?

STAYED HERE IN OZ, I WONT EVEN GET TO SEE IT, ITS ACROSS THE COUNTRY ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE OUTBACK DESERT ... LOL!


You've got to tell us why you sold the black GT4 and are building another. What did you learn on the first GT4 that you would change on the latest build?

DIDNT WANT TO SELL IT, JUST NEEDED MONEY FOR MY OTHER CARS, ANYWAY, IT WORKED OUT GOOD COZ I TRADED IT FOR THE NEW ONE AND IT WILL BE EVEN BETTER BY THE TIME ITS FINISHED AS IT WAS A BARE METAL RESTO. WILL TRY AND SORT OUT A FEW MORE THINGS THIS TIME, TRY AND SET IT UP SO AS NOT TO FLOG OUT REAR AXLES/BEARINGS AS MUCH AND ALSO IMPROVE BUMP STEER IF POSSIBLE?


Also, what tire size and rims are you going with this time around? Wilkinson is doing my car in California, and we went with 19 inch 10 spokes in the rear and 18 inch 10 spokes on the front.

PROBABLY 18x13.5" AND 17x9" STILL WANT IT TO BE AS WIDE AS POSSIBLE BUT TO BE ABLE TO USE 335 TYRES. HEY, WHERE CAN I SEE MORE SHOTS OF YOUR GR-4 CAR, HOW WIDE ARE YOUR 19'S AND 18'S??


I would love to know more about the engine for it - cam specs., etc.

AS SOON AS I FIND OUT, WILL POST IT, IT GOT BIULT BY THE PREVIOUS OWNER ...


Can't wait to see what you do with this one. Maybe a little more radical or less?

IM GOING TO HAVE TO TOP THE LAST ONE AGAIN, ITS GOING TO BE HARD - SO WILL HAVE TO SEE, IVE GOT MANY IDEAS IN MY HEAD, IT WILL BE REALLY COOL AND JAW DROPPING ... JUST NEED MORE MONEY!!! ... (EVERY ONES LIFE STORY I GUESS? ... LOL!!)


Show us the Mopars, Big love for Challengers and Cudas here

HAHA, ME TOO, PROB ONE REASON I DECIDED TO SELL PANTERA IS COZ I LOVE THEM SO MUCH AND THOUGHT IVE BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT WITH PANTERAS AND TIME TO MOVE ONTO OTHER CARS IE: US MUSCLE, MOPARS IN PARTICULAR, BUT I WAS WRONG, DONT EVER WANT TO BE WITHOUT A PANTERA, THIS THING GOT SO MANY LOOKS, IT WAS INSANE ...


Welcome aboard mate. -G

HIYA GEORGE, LONG TIME NO-SPEAK!!

PROBABLY 18x13.5" AND 17x9" STILL WANT IT TO BE AS WIDE AS POSSIBLE BUT TO BE ABLE TO USE 335 TYRES. HEY, WHERE CAN I SEE MORE SHOTS OF YOUR GR-4 CAR, HOW WIDE ARE YOUR 19'S AND 18'S??

I don't have that many shots of my car online, but there is the POCA website that has some photos of my car on it. If you would like to see more, just let me know and I'll see what I have for photos. Here is the link to the POCA website:

1974 Pantera GT

I'll have to look again -- but I believe the rears are Pirelli 345 35 19's and the fronts I really cannot remember, but I will take a look and get back with that.

I've got a 71 Hemi Cuda convertible clone with all the goodies (i.e. rubber bumpers, AM/FM Thumbwheel radio (it does work), rallye gauges (these all work too), power steering, power disc front brakes, manual 4 speed, 4.10 Dana rear). I do understand the addiction with the Mopar thing. I was even thinking about getting a 1968 440 GTX convertible with a manual 4 speed and Dana rear end. But the insanity had to stop with one Mopar. My car is all stock except for the addition of factory cruise control and A/C. I know, I know, it is a convertible and the 426 motors never would have had these, but that is how I purchased this thing. The crazy thing is it all looks factory from the 1971 model year. The color is Curious Yellow with the large black billboard (along with a matte black shaker to go with the billboards) on the rear quarters as well as a black vinyl interior. Good factory NOS parts are really hard to come by. The reproduction stuff just does not fit as well as the original stuff.

Anyway, the Challenger looks great and you'll have great fun with it. I have the stock 15 inch wheels and tire sizes on my car, so I put the cheapest rubber I can find on the rear. They just get ripped up so bad it just does not pay to put anything good on the back end. When the kids ask if I can squeal the tires the correct answer is, "... oh yea..."

Your 1970 Cuda looks like it will be a lot of fun too. Are you doing any reinforcing of the body? Anyway, it looks great too and you'll have loads of fun. I don't know what is more rare in OZ, the Mopars, or the DeTomasos? One thing has to be said of both marques, they definitely did more with less. I guess that is why I like both of them, I am always a sucker for the underdog.

Cheers,

Mark

Mark, my dream car is a 71 hemi-cuda convertible clone!! (both my mopars are clones too as you would have guessed but both are factory big block 383 cars ... real RT and cuda!)

Would love to see some pics of ya convertible sometime, but we probably better talk about our love for mopars over email, not sure if we will get in trouble doing it on this forum coz its all about our other dream car, the Pantera here ... haha!

Would like to see some closer pics of your Pantera rims too later when you get time to find em. thanks

Laslo,

I have a factory GT5-S that I put 18x11 & 19x13 rims on with 285/30/18 & 345/30/19 tires. The backspacing is 5" all around. You can see in the picture how each tire rounds around the shoulder to the tread. It's also possible to see the sidewall height difference front to rear.

Michael

Hi Laslo,

I sent you an e-mail to your netscape.net address from the Wild Pantera site. If this is not correct, just PM me on this site.

The tire sizes for the rear are Pirelli PZero Corsa Asimmetrico 345/35ZR-19 and the fronts are Pirelli PZero Corsa 285/30ZR-18. Sorry I do not have any photos here, but my avatar has those rims and wheels on it, but it is not the best photo.

Michael, those rims and tires are sick -- I love it!

Mark

Welcome to the forum (finally) mate...here's Laslo 11 years ago...btw the trooper to the right (as the story goes) was waiting for Laslo to leave doing a so he could make his day

Michael (Cyboman): - your GT5-S is unreal mate!!! ... i wanna see more pics! ive always loved the GT5-S bodywork, a lot of the 5-S cars sit really good and the wheels fill out the guards nice.

----------------
btw the trooper to the right (as the story goes) was waiting for Laslo to leave doing a burn out so he could make his day Wink:

HAHA, THEY HAVE CAUGHT ME MANY TIMES SINCE DOING DUMBASS SH*T ... LOL!

quote:

This time i will get the same wheels made but probably 18"x13.5" and 17"x9" so i can fit 335's Probably go brushed alum, might try adding some black to the wheel???

Hi Laslo. Welcome to the forum.
Your GR4 was the drive to get me to convert mine.
Didn't you order your wheels before installing the flares? I've read that the bodywork is suppose to be worked around the wheels?
Also, do you have your A-arms modified for extra caster on your cars? I just had mine done by Johnny Woods.Apparently, very difficult to drive at speed with such wide tires and not enough caster.
Will

Hi Will,

Thanks.

Im not sure, but I suppose (in theory) you are governed by the fixed shape and positioning of the flare (and width of it) against bodywork, so i thought that they would have to be put on first and then work out the wheel size/offset afterwards. Then you shouldnt have to alter the flares or bodywork (they should remain stock - in the case of these fiberglass bolt on ones)?

Im not sure how it can work the other way around in this case, if you order the wheels first, i guess you need to get a fiberglass guy to alter the flares (cut them up etc) and make them fit over the wheels? I suppose you would be assured of a better fit, and that's what ended up happening with my first GT-4, but i really thought that if you bought the flares, you shouldnt need to go to all this trouble to alter them but instead get the wheel offset right?

Dont know how to solve the problem this time around because, as you can see on my new Pantera they are already bolted on and everything is already all painted up nicely? - anyone got any ideas on how i can get it exactly right this time? (Last time i had the old wheels on and tried to measure how much further out they had to be to fill out the flare)

As for the A-arms, i had washers in the lower ones which they removed/added to align the rear wheels. On my previous (red) Pantera, i had adjustable rose joints made (on the top a-arms) which was a good set-up to give the adjustment.

Hi Laslo. Makes sense to me. Put the flares on first and then order wheels to fit perfectly. I don't know why people would order wheels first. Maybe thats why so many have required spacers and longer studs.
Will

quote:

Originally posted by 4NHOTROD:
Hi Laslo. Makes sense to me. Put the flares on first and then order wheels to fit perfectly. I don't know why people would order wheels first. Maybe thats why so many have required spacers and longer studs.
Will

Most vendors fit flares around the selected wheels. Quella did my body work and he buys wheels and selects offset pretty much based upon experience but hangs the flares around the wheels with car fully weighted and suspension set at desired ride height. Most of the variability in placement is height but there is surprising variability fore and aft. Varaibility in body panel placement on a Pantera? Who'd have thunk it ;-)

Kelly

You would need the wheels (any wheels) for the placement of the flares in terms of height and fore/aft placement to ensure the opening was centered and even all the way around.
Incorrect backspacing however would force unneeded modification to the flares to adjust the amount they stick out. This really applies to fibreglass and not metal because metal flares are completely modified anyway.
In my case and Laslo's, wheels with proper backspacing can now be ordered without modifying the flares or the need for spacers or longer studs.
I just spoke to someone who ordered wheels from Byers and his rear BS is roughly 6". Don said they would be "perfect".
My rear BS is 4.35". He will be installing Hall flares like mine.
You can imagine that he is pretty upset after finding out that he has to modify his flares or adjust otherwise. I have spoken to many in the same scenario.
Will

As my friend Kelly mentioned, Pantera bodies are very often asymmetric. Whether this is due to variation in the several factory welding jigs used when the cars were created, or accidents and sag with time, I dunno. Quite a few cars have been 'clipped'- the entire front end has been replaced- often skillfully enough that new owners never realize it until they try maxing out the front wheels. But by measuring from both sides of both brake rotor faces out to a piece of plywood stood vertically against each fender opening(s), you can get a rough idea of how bad your car is. Some are fine; most aren't. On such Panteras, expect the right front suspension to stick out up to 1" MORE than the left, on a completely stock, undamaged '71-'76 Pantera. I have no info on wide-body cars made after Ford destroyed the original stamping dies and welding jigs.
By doing more measuring, you may find the welded front crossmember slants downward rather than being perfectly horizontal. This affects the entire front end but especially the right front fender opening.
A poor reproduction of the original factory body blueprint measurements was on the back pg of original Tech Service Bulletins (not in current reprints), but Euro engineers apparently did not adhere to ANSI specs in making such drawings, so it requires a bit of study. The pencil lines are impossibly thin (pre-computer dwg) so this pg does not reproduce.

quote:

Originally posted by DeMopuar:
Michael, those rims and tires are sick -- I love it!

Mark

Thanks Mark, I share your sentiments! How is your Pantera coming along? Do you have an update and some progress pictures to share with us?

quote:

Originally posted by wildpantera:
Michael (Cyboman): - your GT5-S is unreal mate!!! ... i wanna see more pics! ive always loved the GT5-S bodywork, a lot of the 5-S cars sit really good and the wheels fill out the guards nice.

LA

Laslo,

Here's another picture. I'm not sure what the distance difference is (if any) between GR4, GT5, and GT5-S flares from the frame rails (or other common point). Years back I posted some threads about how I measured for the backspacing on my Pantera, which of course had existing flares (guards). Do a search and maybe something there can prove useful to you.

Pictures of my Pantera are strewn throughout these PI forums. The 'Wheels Sticky' has one or two. If you can't find enough, I'll put together a quick album and post it in the 'Pictures' forum. Needless to say, I share your enthusiasm for my 5-S, mate!

Michael

thats awesome!!! ... i like it better than mine

cool, will look out for more pics ...

OMG!!

I have only just noticed that Panteras By Wilkinson sell the 15" diameter campy 10 spoke wheels in 13" and 10" wide!

I suppose these are reproduction, has anybody seen these in the flesh? what are they like? Has anybody bought them and put on their car, if so please show us pics!!

I wish they could also make 14" wide campys for our GT-4 cars, do you know where we could get any?

Are the front tyres still available, does anybody make them - 285's?? Also can you still easily get the rears 345's?

Too many questions i know, but it would be awesome to build an exact GT-4 replica!

Laslo

What are the specific make of wheels on your Black GT-4 and what tire make and sizes are you running. I understand these to be 16" front and 18" rear? Any data would be great.

Many thanks

quote:

Thanks Mark, I share your sentiments! How is your Pantera coming along? Do you have an update and some progress pictures to share with us?

Nothing to show right now. Car has been in same state at Wilkinson's for some time. I was just there not too long ago, and Steve has assured me that work will continue soon. I am still waiting patiently.

Later,

Mark

quote:

OMG!!

I have only just noticed that Panteras By Wilkinson sell the 15" diameter campy 10 spoke wheels in 13" and 10" wide!

I suppose these are reproduction, has anybody seen these in the flesh? what are they like? Has anybody bought them and put on their car, if so please show us pics!!

I wish they could also make 14" wide campys for our GT-4 cars, do you know where we could get any?

Are the front tyres still available, does anybody make them - 285's?? Also can you still easily get the rears 345's?

Too many questions i know, but it would be awesome to build an exact GT-4 replica

345's are readily available for 15" wheels. The fronts are hard to get.
Also, keep in mind that large brake systems can't be used with a 15" rim.
Will

I was able to fit Quella's Willwood calipers and rotors under 15" campys. Just a bit of grinding on the edge of some calipers.
Mark

Panterapatt
What are the specific make of wheels on your Black GT-4 and what tire make and sizes are you running. I understand these to be 16" front and 18" rear? Any data would be great.

---------------------------------

YES, I HAD 18x14" REAR AND 16x9.5" FRONT, CUSTOM MADE TO FILL OUT THE WIDE GT-4 FLARES. TYRES WERE MICHELLIN PILOT SPORT CUP 345/30/18 AND FALKEN 245/45/16. NEXT TIME I WILL GET 18x13.5" SO THAT 335'S CAN FIT.

quote:

Originally posted by ehpantera:
I was able to fit Quella's Willwood calipers and rotors under 15" campys. Just a bit of grinding on the edge of some calipers.
Mark

Little off-topic I know...but if allowed to:
Any pics of hat conversion - did you need adaptors of any kind?
I really want to stick with the 15' wheels I have now (and I love the old style balloon tires), but like to get some more modern brakes.

Kid, no adapter is needed for Wilwood Superlite 2s in front- just a thin shim to center the pads, but there are complications. The hole pattern in the Wilwoods is spread wider apart than stock Girling calipers. You can use the upper stock hole and bolt, and drill/tap a new hole at the correct location for a stock bolt. It's been a decade since I did this, but I think you'll have to ream out the Wilwood mount holes a bit for stock Pantera metric caliper mount bolts.
When you drill/tap a 3rd hole, it often gets dangerously close to falling through the steering arm bottom. The steering arm is forged steel, so a little judicious welding and filing on the bottom of the arm near the new hole will build up the area so it won't crack. Don't attempt to speed up cooling of any welds here. In any case, braking force is mostly upward so not much force is added to this area but if the new threaded hole gets close, I think its still a good idea to reinforce it a bit. And obviously, the stock french-lock plates won't fit the new bolt spacing either; I safety-wired the bolt heads together and have had no trouble.

Thanks Bosswrench

I've been searching the forum for what's possible in combination with 15' wheels, but not too happy with the results so far.

I sooner or later will start my own topic in regard to 15' wheel brake upgrades instead of hijacking this one I guess...