I've looked and looked, but cannot find any specs on the Blue Thunder Pantera intake.
Port size, location, etc??
Flow measurements?
Anyone able to provide??
Thanks,
Larry
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Better yet...availability.
About six months ago I set out to purchase two of the BT intakes, as I'm building two Clevelands, after a lengthy wait and looking at other options, I concluded the best choice for a big inch Cleveland would be the Holley Strip Dominator hands down and ironically even though the Strip Dominator was discontinued decades ago it is quite easily obtainable thru ebay. After speaking to the fellow that makes the Blue Thunder I learned why he only makes one batch a year, both the dealer I go thru and myself do not concur with the manufacturer's logic for such a limited surplus. After waiting for months on my order I pulled the plug and cancelled, had it been available I would have purchased two. I ordered in November last year and here we are and to my knowledge still not available? My opinion:if the Blue Thunder was readily available many more would sell, potential buyers get tired of the year long wait and seek alternative options. For a bigger displacement Cleveland the Strip Dominator offers much better mixture distribution to all 8 cylinders and claims that the BT makes 40 ft/lbs more of torque are simply not true. If I was building a bone stock 351C I would pick the BT but most of us upgrade with more cam timing, better exhaust and hotter ignition capable of using a single plane like the Strip Dominator. As per many Cleveland conessuars the Strip Dominator was light years ahead when designed 40 years ago. I've noticed in the Cleveland forums some of the most knowlegeable Cleveland builders use the Strip Dominator almost exclusively when going with factory iron heads and stroker displacements. As far as fittment in a Pantera engine bay, nearly similar heights between the two, just have to level the carb pad for Pantera usage.
About six months ago I set out to purchase two of the BT intakes, as I'm building two Clevelands, after a lengthy wait and looking at other options, I concluded the best choice for a big inch Cleveland would be the Holley Strip Dominator hands down and ironically even though the Strip Dominator was discontinued decades ago it is quite easily obtainable thru ebay. After speaking to the fellow that makes the Blue Thunder I learned why he only makes one batch a year, both the dealer I go thru and myself do not concur with the manufacturer's logic for such a limited surplus. After waiting for months on my order I pulled the plug and cancelled, had it been available I would have purchased two. I ordered in November last year and here we are and to my knowledge still not available? My opinion:if the Blue Thunder was readily available many more would sell, potential buyers get tired of the year long wait and seek alternative options. For a bigger displacement Cleveland the Strip Dominator offers much better mixture distribution to all 8 cylinders and claims that the BT makes 40 ft/lbs more of torque are simply not true. If I was building a bone stock 351C I would pick the BT but most of us upgrade with more cam timing, better exhaust and hotter ignition capable of using a single plane like the Strip Dominator. As per many Cleveland conessuars the Strip Dominator was light years ahead when designed 40 years ago. I've noticed in the Cleveland forums some of the most knowlegeable Cleveland builders use the Strip Dominator almost exclusively when going with factory iron heads and stroker displacements. As far as fittment in a Pantera engine bay, nearly similar heights between the two, just have to level the carb pad for Pantera usage.
That is a beautiful piece of work.
Almost too nice to put on an engine where it will be soiled by hydrocarbons!
Note I said "almost"....
Rocky
Almost too nice to put on an engine where it will be soiled by hydrocarbons!
Note I said "almost"....
Rocky
Yes, the BT intakes are difficult to obtain.
You have to know where to look.
Hall Pantera seems to try and keep them in stock. I know Tara got 6 last year, and I bought one of them early this year.
===================
The specs I could find does show the SD may, when milled flat, fit under a Pantera screen. May.
But my build HP target is only 450FWHP, and not intended for all out runs. The SD is a single plane and better suited for higher RPM use; not the direction I'm going.
===================
Thanks, George. As I have one on hand, I'm actually looking for specs that might give my engine builder a better understanding of its design.
Looks like I will drop it off at his shop and let him figure it out.
===================
My engine builder is Joe Boghosian, of JBRE (racing engines). When I was in his shop yesterday, he showed me the Gurney-Weslake engine he is rebuilding for Dan Gurney. Yup, you read that right. Not the first he has one done for Dan, either.
And for you Cobra nerds, you may know the Dick Smith Cobra that set the Cobra speed record of 198MPH?
Guess who built that engine. Yup, Joe.
Joe and son Tom are a two man shop about ten minutes from my home. Tom actually lives a block from me. They are a bit old-school and not fully up to date on the parts progress with Clevelands, which is why I'd like to give them all the specs I can. They may leave some HP on the table, but my HP goal isn't that difficult to obtain. I know whatever they design and build for me will be awesome.
Larry
P.S. - If you think BT intakes are hard to find, you should try getting anything from Scott Cook in OZ.
After MUCH effort, I spoke with him. Confirmed he had his Cleveland heads and intake in stock. Gave him shipping
address to determine shipping cost, he confirmed address receipt, and I waited for his invoice. And waited. And
waited. Sent follow-up email after email. And waited. And waited. Finally said F**K IT. Never did hear from him.
YMMV
You have to know where to look.
Hall Pantera seems to try and keep them in stock. I know Tara got 6 last year, and I bought one of them early this year.
===================
The specs I could find does show the SD may, when milled flat, fit under a Pantera screen. May.
But my build HP target is only 450FWHP, and not intended for all out runs. The SD is a single plane and better suited for higher RPM use; not the direction I'm going.
===================
Thanks, George. As I have one on hand, I'm actually looking for specs that might give my engine builder a better understanding of its design.
Looks like I will drop it off at his shop and let him figure it out.
===================
My engine builder is Joe Boghosian, of JBRE (racing engines). When I was in his shop yesterday, he showed me the Gurney-Weslake engine he is rebuilding for Dan Gurney. Yup, you read that right. Not the first he has one done for Dan, either.
And for you Cobra nerds, you may know the Dick Smith Cobra that set the Cobra speed record of 198MPH?
Guess who built that engine. Yup, Joe.
Joe and son Tom are a two man shop about ten minutes from my home. Tom actually lives a block from me. They are a bit old-school and not fully up to date on the parts progress with Clevelands, which is why I'd like to give them all the specs I can. They may leave some HP on the table, but my HP goal isn't that difficult to obtain. I know whatever they design and build for me will be awesome.
Larry
P.S. - If you think BT intakes are hard to find, you should try getting anything from Scott Cook in OZ.
After MUCH effort, I spoke with him. Confirmed he had his Cleveland heads and intake in stock. Gave him shipping
address to determine shipping cost, he confirmed address receipt, and I waited for his invoice. And waited. And
waited. Sent follow-up email after email. And waited. And waited. Finally said F**K IT. Never did hear from him.
YMMV
I didn't know you already owned a manifold.
The BT manifold will fit under the "raised" L model engine screen with no issues. It may take a bit of "thinking" to get it under a Pre-L screen.
In terms of performance, Mr. Boghosian should be able to relate to the fact that the BT manifold originally went on sale in 1970, under the Shelby name. It is a typical "large port" dual plane manifold. The use of such manifolds petered-out in the 1980s, but in their day they were popular in road racing applications (wide power band).
Just keep the camshaft overlap low (55 degrees based on seated valve events), use a 750 cfm carb, set the dynamic compression to around 7.7:1 to 8.0:1.
If you want the manifold to be competitive with single plane manifolds on the dyno the exhaust heat cross-over must be blocked. Comparisons without blocking the exhaust heat cross-over are apples and oranges ... invalid. Intentionally invalid in my opinion. Block the exhaust heat and watch the BT manifold perform! Also agreed with you that 450 bhp is easy to obtain. A good engine builder should be able to build the engine to produce more BHP than you expect. If you want to challenge him, set a high intake manifold vacuum goal, like 17" of mercury vacuum. that will throw a wrinkle into the project.
Your engine builder is welcome to call the office if I can be of assistance.
-G
The BT manifold will fit under the "raised" L model engine screen with no issues. It may take a bit of "thinking" to get it under a Pre-L screen.
In terms of performance, Mr. Boghosian should be able to relate to the fact that the BT manifold originally went on sale in 1970, under the Shelby name. It is a typical "large port" dual plane manifold. The use of such manifolds petered-out in the 1980s, but in their day they were popular in road racing applications (wide power band).
Just keep the camshaft overlap low (55 degrees based on seated valve events), use a 750 cfm carb, set the dynamic compression to around 7.7:1 to 8.0:1.
If you want the manifold to be competitive with single plane manifolds on the dyno the exhaust heat cross-over must be blocked. Comparisons without blocking the exhaust heat cross-over are apples and oranges ... invalid. Intentionally invalid in my opinion. Block the exhaust heat and watch the BT manifold perform! Also agreed with you that 450 bhp is easy to obtain. A good engine builder should be able to build the engine to produce more BHP than you expect. If you want to challenge him, set a high intake manifold vacuum goal, like 17" of mercury vacuum. that will throw a wrinkle into the project.
Your engine builder is welcome to call the office if I can be of assistance.
-G
Thanks, George.
Mike Drew used the BT with CHI4V heads and he ...just...fit under the early screen. He then replaced his rubber motor mounts and had to search out a greater dropped air filter base. It's a close fit.
Thanks for the build help offer. May take you up on that. This is a 3-4 month build project due to his work load, so the phone may not ring for a while.
Larry
Mike Drew used the BT with CHI4V heads and he ...just...fit under the early screen. He then replaced his rubber motor mounts and had to search out a greater dropped air filter base. It's a close fit.
Thanks for the build help offer. May take you up on that. This is a 3-4 month build project due to his work load, so the phone may not ring for a while.
Larry
Here's a couple of threads on the BT intake you may have already read...
http://351c.net/board/index.ph...ary-29-2012-hawkxr7/
http://server.detomasolist.com...2010-May/058835.html
FWIW, I have BT on my Pantera at the moment and the air cleaner does NOT fit under the pre-L engine screen. Albiet, my BT has not been milled flat for the Pantera.
Regardless of which intake you go with, make absolutely certain your air cleaner does not make contact with the decklid when closed. The last time I rebuilt my engine I used a Weiand Xcelerator single plane manifold (milled flat) with the Hall cast aluminum "Pantera" air cleaner. The decklid made contact with the top of the air cleaner when closed. That contact resulted in sufficient force being applied to the air cleaner stud to work harden it over the course of 3000 miles at which time it broke, then vibrated loose from the wing nut and went down the carb throat and into the #8 cylinder where it cracked the cylinder wall and collapsed the piston. So, make certain your decklid does not contact the top of the air cleaner, and either weld your wing nut to the air cleaner stud, or use a bolt so it can't drop into the carb in such an event.
http://351c.net/board/index.ph...ary-29-2012-hawkxr7/
http://server.detomasolist.com...2010-May/058835.html
FWIW, I have BT on my Pantera at the moment and the air cleaner does NOT fit under the pre-L engine screen. Albiet, my BT has not been milled flat for the Pantera.
Regardless of which intake you go with, make absolutely certain your air cleaner does not make contact with the decklid when closed. The last time I rebuilt my engine I used a Weiand Xcelerator single plane manifold (milled flat) with the Hall cast aluminum "Pantera" air cleaner. The decklid made contact with the top of the air cleaner when closed. That contact resulted in sufficient force being applied to the air cleaner stud to work harden it over the course of 3000 miles at which time it broke, then vibrated loose from the wing nut and went down the carb throat and into the #8 cylinder where it cracked the cylinder wall and collapsed the piston. So, make certain your decklid does not contact the top of the air cleaner, and either weld your wing nut to the air cleaner stud, or use a bolt so it can't drop into the carb in such an event.