when I wear out I'm gonna be stuffed in the ground six under.
-G
Not to hijack the thread But,
Can you cleveland experts give an idea on what kind of power and life expectancy I should get from this set up?
Heads:
Iron 4V quench
Magnafluxed
Hardened exhaust seats
resurface
Silicon bronze valve guides
Manley - stainless steel valves
SVO single groove keepers
507 ST Isky retainers
6005 Isky springs
ARP 135-7101 screw in studs
Isky valve shims
Manley 25752 push rods
Manley 42156 guide plates
Block:
decked
bored .020
Crank regrind 10/10, heat treated, polished, magnafluxed, champher oil holes
Balance: crank, rods, pistons, flywheel, brgs, damper,within 0-1 gram
SPS rod bolts
Clevite 77 rod bearings
Clevite 77 cam bearings
pistons: forged, high silicon Keith Black 9.5:1
with 66cc heads
Cam: SVO FOR - M - 6260 - A341, hydraulic,
intake: .510 lift@292/214
exhaust: .536 lift
SVO lifters
speed pro moly R9343 25 rings
crane roller rockers @ 1.73
Cloyes double roller timing chain
Edelbrock performer intake
Holley 670 street avenger w elec choke / vac secondaries
Ford electronic ignition module and dist.
Original exhaust system (headers and exhaust upgrade are next on my wish list)
Thanks a bunch,
Doug M
Can you cleveland experts give an idea on what kind of power and life expectancy I should get from this set up?
Heads:
Iron 4V quench
Magnafluxed
Hardened exhaust seats
resurface
Silicon bronze valve guides
Manley - stainless steel valves
SVO single groove keepers
507 ST Isky retainers
6005 Isky springs
ARP 135-7101 screw in studs
Isky valve shims
Manley 25752 push rods
Manley 42156 guide plates
Block:
decked
bored .020
Crank regrind 10/10, heat treated, polished, magnafluxed, champher oil holes
Balance: crank, rods, pistons, flywheel, brgs, damper,within 0-1 gram
SPS rod bolts
Clevite 77 rod bearings
Clevite 77 cam bearings
pistons: forged, high silicon Keith Black 9.5:1
with 66cc heads
Cam: SVO FOR - M - 6260 - A341, hydraulic,
intake: .510 lift@292/214
exhaust: .536 lift
SVO lifters
speed pro moly R9343 25 rings
crane roller rockers @ 1.73
Cloyes double roller timing chain
Edelbrock performer intake
Holley 670 street avenger w elec choke / vac secondaries
Ford electronic ignition module and dist.
Original exhaust system (headers and exhaust upgrade are next on my wish list)
Thanks a bunch,
Doug M
I've known of motors built with that camshaft (A341) making about 350 to 390 BHP with peak power occurring at 5600 to 6000 RPM. The differences were due to heads (2V/4V), compression, induction and exhaust.
Its a decent street cam, it gives the engine a rumpety idle, and the engine will have good drivability above idle. The cam has a reputation for causing the power band to flatten out by 6000 rpm. Advancing the cam by several degrees will help the high rpm a bit and improve idle and low rpm too.
There's nothing in your parts list that would make me conclude this engine couldn't be driven for 100,000 miles.
Its a decent street cam, it gives the engine a rumpety idle, and the engine will have good drivability above idle. The cam has a reputation for causing the power band to flatten out by 6000 rpm. Advancing the cam by several degrees will help the high rpm a bit and improve idle and low rpm too.
There's nothing in your parts list that would make me conclude this engine couldn't be driven for 100,000 miles.
quote:Originally posted by INZOWHO:
Not to hijack the thread But,
Can you cleveland experts give an idea on what kind of power and life expectancy I should get from this set up?
Heads:
Iron 4V quench
Magnafluxed
Hardened exhaust seats
resurface
Silicon bronze valve guides
Manley - stainless steel valves
SVO single groove keepers
507 ST Isky retainers
6005 Isky springs
ARP 135-7101 screw in studs
Isky valve shims
Manley 25752 push rods
Manley 42156 guide plates
Block:
decked
bored .020
Crank regrind 10/10, heat treated, polished, magnafluxed, champher oil holes
Balance: crank, rods, pistons, flywheel, brgs, damper,within 0-1 gram
SPS rod bolts
Clevite 77 rod bearings
Clevite 77 cam bearings
pistons: forged, high silicon Keith Black 9.5:1
with 66cc heads
Cam: SVO FOR - M - 6260 - A341, hydraulic,
intake: .510 lift@292/214
exhaust: .536 lift
SVO lifters
speed pro moly R9343 25 rings
crane roller rockers @ 1.73
Cloyes double roller timing chain
Edelbrock performer intake
Holley 670 street avenger w elec choke / vac secondaries
Ford electronic ignition module and dist.
Original exhaust system (headers and exhaust upgrade are next on my wish list)
Thanks a bunch,
Doug M
Bigger cam, Bigger cam! More Rumpptee Rump! My.02
quote:Can you cleveland experts give an idea on what kind of power and life expectancy I should get from this set up?
Doug,
Sounds like a nice combination you've spec'd out. I'll leave it to the expurts to guess at power, but I will say it sounds like a durable combination that should last for many years, as a 'driver' Pantera. Not sure what the duration is on that cam, but the lift looks pretty mild, so I would expect it to be pretty reliable/durable.
The balancing matters alot, a stock engine is pretty rough. My original engine is set up the same with an improved exhaust, A good free flowing air cleaner and a ignition system up grade, until the latest chevy Zo6 vette they were easy prey, and 175 mph across the desert is what I have taken the Pantera to.
Your combo is a notch up from my original engine, so depending on your cam, ie, were it is expected to work on your rpm curve and other components " the heads work on the upper rpm range" say 3000rpm to 7000rpm in a 351 cid or lower with a stroker, this is power and not nessasarily undrivable as my original engine is a sweet running engine in traffic/ stop and go, you just need to bring the rev's up for action. I would say do at least the headers now while the engine is out, bigger pipes to your mufflers and gut your mufflers so it can breath. Without all these items working together or choking your engine it could be a disappointment after all your hard work.
The best headers in my opinion are made by Pat Mical, are not cheap. There are some in the middle, thats what I am running now and there is some real junk out there. Research should pay big dividends on your build, I've spent hours checking all my parts to get what I want for my build so hopefully my conclusions ad up.
Mark
Your combo is a notch up from my original engine, so depending on your cam, ie, were it is expected to work on your rpm curve and other components " the heads work on the upper rpm range" say 3000rpm to 7000rpm in a 351 cid or lower with a stroker, this is power and not nessasarily undrivable as my original engine is a sweet running engine in traffic/ stop and go, you just need to bring the rev's up for action. I would say do at least the headers now while the engine is out, bigger pipes to your mufflers and gut your mufflers so it can breath. Without all these items working together or choking your engine it could be a disappointment after all your hard work.
The best headers in my opinion are made by Pat Mical, are not cheap. There are some in the middle, thats what I am running now and there is some real junk out there. Research should pay big dividends on your build, I've spent hours checking all my parts to get what I want for my build so hopefully my conclusions ad up.
Mark
Thanks for the input guys,
For the first few years my goal is to set her up for reliable long distance touring. I've seen too many high strung, big power engines drive the owners crazy.
I wanted my engine to be docile in traffic, cruise all day at 75-80 miles an hour and go from 60 to 90 in a heartbeat. So far so good.
I'm hoping to get 50,000 miles out of it. By that time the car will well above 100K miles and need a complete redo. At that point I will be tempted to put a fire belching monster of a motor in it.
Doug M
For the first few years my goal is to set her up for reliable long distance touring. I've seen too many high strung, big power engines drive the owners crazy.
I wanted my engine to be docile in traffic, cruise all day at 75-80 miles an hour and go from 60 to 90 in a heartbeat. So far so good.
I'm hoping to get 50,000 miles out of it. By that time the car will well above 100K miles and need a complete redo. At that point I will be tempted to put a fire belching monster of a motor in it.
Doug M
One thing I do know about the 351 Cleveland with stock rods is that they dont like being turned much above 6500 rpm without breaking. In San Jose, there is a guy who used to build up Clevelands for use in a Sprint Car / Super Modified ( at a time when eveyone used small block Chevrolets ). He used to machine the crank to accept Chevrolet rods and routinely spun it to over 8000 RPM. Granted, these motors were making over 700 horsepower but the rods were a weak point. So, if you are looking for high RPM capability, spend some money in this area. By the way, the Cleveland made far superior power to the Chev. even with only an 850 Holley. It's a great design.
Yes,
The newer Chevy LS7 titanium rods a plentiful & light,will allow you to go to internal balancing if you so chose. the smaller journal reduces surface speed drag on the bearing which equates to HP & will still hold up to higher HP applications.
There are other longer rods for the stroker crowd.
The Chevy diamensions are a win win situation!
The newer Chevy LS7 titanium rods a plentiful & light,will allow you to go to internal balancing if you so chose. the smaller journal reduces surface speed drag on the bearing which equates to HP & will still hold up to higher HP applications.
There are other longer rods for the stroker crowd.
The Chevy diamensions are a win win situation!
Sick Cat...are you saying that the LS7 rod is a bolt in swap to the 351C, or did I misunderstand? The LS7 is a pretty nice engine. Here's a link showing those rods and some other internals:
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_2691/article.html
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_2691/article.html
Nope!
Chevy Rod Journal = 2.100"
Ford Cleveland = 2.310"
The LS7 rods are plentiful because the folks that have these engine's want more. In the case of my engine builder, offset grinding a 351C crank from a 3.700" throw, the chevy journal size is use because it is smaller, in other words the rod journal are turned down to the chevy size eliptically to the out side.
So when you are selecting your parts the LS7 rod is an option.
You could use this rod on a standard crank but the rod journal would have to be cut to the smaller chevy size, you would have to find pistons and then get it all balanced to each other. Its doable but is normally done in conjuction with a stroker engine.
If you need some advice my engine guy is; Keith at Rancho Performance Machine, 28073 Diaz Rd, suite I, Temecula Ca 92590, 951-676-9292.
Pic is of the pistons I used, Keith machined the domes to lower compression to 10.7:1
Mark
Chevy Rod Journal = 2.100"
Ford Cleveland = 2.310"
The LS7 rods are plentiful because the folks that have these engine's want more. In the case of my engine builder, offset grinding a 351C crank from a 3.700" throw, the chevy journal size is use because it is smaller, in other words the rod journal are turned down to the chevy size eliptically to the out side.
So when you are selecting your parts the LS7 rod is an option.
You could use this rod on a standard crank but the rod journal would have to be cut to the smaller chevy size, you would have to find pistons and then get it all balanced to each other. Its doable but is normally done in conjuction with a stroker engine.
If you need some advice my engine guy is; Keith at Rancho Performance Machine, 28073 Diaz Rd, suite I, Temecula Ca 92590, 951-676-9292.
Pic is of the pistons I used, Keith machined the domes to lower compression to 10.7:1
Mark
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Sick Cats response is exactly the way I remember the story. The larger bearing area in the Ford is prone to spinning ( and snapping the rod ). Again, I think this is only an issue if you intend to wind it up above 6000. But, if you do, you just learned a great tip.
Hey Mark W,
what's the part number of the beehive springs you're using?
-G
what's the part number of the beehive springs you're using?
-G
The Ford bearing is larger in dia but narrower, which doesn't work as well at extreme rpms: the oil cushion is not as large as the smaller dia but wider Chev rod bearing. You have to narrow cheaper Chev rods or have the Ford crank throws ground both smaller in dia. and wider for the wider big-ends of a Chev rod. Once done, you get into mandatory custom pistons (or rods) because Ford uses a 0.912" dia piston pin while Chev is 0.927", and for a 351C-type head the piston crown must be relieved for those two big stagger-angle valves. Chev pistons could be used for the street but the crown looks awful with the four almost universal Chev straight-valve reliefs underneath the two big 351C stagger-angle cuts. This gives a notable compression reduction plus multiple hot-spots, I suspect. All this mix-and-match stuff started with NASCAR: they often use 2.1 or 2.0" Chev rod bearing size (or 1.88"-dia Honda for 9800-rpm short-track racing), Ford main bearing size, lighter, shorter Ford wristpins in custom pistons and a host of others. Why? 'Cause they work- for their purposes of minimum weight and max. reliability for a max. 500-mile engine life
thanks Mark
the dimensions of that spring look like it was made for a Clevo. Perfect.
the dimensions of that spring look like it was made for a Clevo. Perfect.
Low parasitic mass, low harmonics and light spring pressure is what sold me.
http://www.cwtindustries.com/whybalance.htm
Mark
http://www.cwtindustries.com/whybalance.htm
Mark
Regardng port size and flow. I have about 2001 vintage Yates heads. They have small ports compared to 4V heads and flowed over 360 at 600 lift. I think the flow comes from the carefully designed turn in the port towards the head of the valve.
Ken
Ken
Just received a reply from Chuck Nuytten on what carburetor to use, he suggested a 750-2003 $833.00 + $91.00 for electric choke, in a follow up e-mail he stated that the work on this carb will allow it to flow up 900cfm. Perfect! Drivability and flow.