Butt-enhancement… L bumper delete

The question if I will make the charge to the front bumper will come certainly up:

No, I keep the L bumper in the front! The little bumpers look cute 🥰 but I saw Gravel rash in between them on the leading edge of some cars, and besides that, that bumper doesn’t look that bad either!

Smiling Pantera

somehow SpongeBob comes to mind

I have 4460. It is what some are describing as a 72-1/2? It came with the crash bumpers.

The cars without these bumpers and with have two entirely different characters.

Aesthetically, I like the look of the black "crash bumpers" but don't appreciate the amount of weight they add to the car.

I still have my originals stored. I substituted fiberglass bumpers on the car.

The fiberglass front bumper is probably as good as keeping your sheet metal in front ding free. The rear is really almost a hologram of a bumper but it looks original to the car.

Exactly what the weight savings on the car is I can't say. I did not do a before and after but the number weights on the original bumpers with their "crash cylinders" hidden within the fenders was suggested that it is about a 200 pound addition? Maybe?

The thought that I had is that with certain changes to original components, it is possible to get the weight of the car down to 2,800 to 2,900 pounds. With 500 hp, that puts the potential performance level just about on par with something like the C8 Corvette which really is weighing in at something like 3,400 pounds.

Right or wrong, that was just my thought process on the bumper situation besides the fact that I like the look of them and that I feel I get how they derived and that "form follows function".

I'm into the blacked out trim look and not a dated chromed look. That's just me and frankly, what I've done is undoable in the future anyway. Not by me, but by the next owners?

I chose to use no front bumpers at all. I cut neat discs out of decal material to cover the smaller holes, and just pretend that the larger holes are brake ducts. Very racy!  I have the blades, and plan to put them on both ends of the car at some point in the future, probably when paint work gets done.

Rowdy….!!!

👍👍

I was thinking the same thing about using the holes for brake ducts.

I had considered going bumperless  but on my car when I looked at the fit of the bottom of the hood to the rest of the nose, I didn't like it and I wasn't going to mess around with making it look like it fit better.

I also like the little wing that is built into the front bumper. I think that is a very subtle design element that many overlook?

Looking at your pictures though, that is a very aggressive looking vehicle! If it came up on me from behind I would definitely get out of it's way. Maybe pull off the road to recover from the trauma ?

I used the front holes for small PIAA daytime driving lights, that provide added visibility and fill the hole almost perfectly. On the rear I got some similarly sized LED lights as third braking lights!

@joules posted:

I used the front holes for small PIAA daytime driving lights, that provide added visibility and fill the hole almost perfectly. On the rear I got some similarly sized LED lights as third braking lights!

Agreed, the leading edge of the hood to the front valance is kind of a funky joint on my car as well. In my case, since the car is a GTS, the hood will end up painted black and all the lousy body seams will improve or disappear. I believe I’ve seen a picture of Joules’ driving lights that I think looked pretty cool. Doug - Bauhaus huh?

For everyone who wants to know…

rear L-bumper weight is 22 pounds

2 mounting shocks and hardware 15 pounds

total loss of weight behind the rear axle 37  pounds  ( I know - it’s less than expected …. Remember when she got the ruler out 📏 🤣 same thing… Less than expected)

new fiberglass bumperetts a few ounces!

@Ed Harbur posted:

Agreed, the leading edge of the hood to the front valance is kind of a funky joint on my car as well. In my case, since the car is a GTS, the hood will end up painted black and all the lousy body seams will improve or disappear. I believe I’ve seen a picture of Joules’ driving lights that I think looked pretty cool. Doug - Bauhaus huh?

It is amazing to me of the number of people who quote, "form follows function". I'm an Architect by education. That was the "brain washing" that was hot glued into our heads.

I was recently in the hospital overnight and had an RN quote it to me.

I always wanted to talk to Tom Tjaarda and compare backgrounds? He was often here in the US at the "Pantera Rally". If you look at his Resume, he studied Architecture at the University of Michigan.

I took criticism in school for not being "free enough" in my abstract thinking and every time I look at the dual pod dash and console, I remember that criticism. I always felt Tom's concept of the dual pod was an extension of abstract design.

I remember a quote from Commander Spock about "the theory of how 'time has currents' and how all things being equal, they will tend to take us to the same place". (City on the Edge of Tomorrow).

I'm not sure that "coincidence" really is an independent thing? I often feel that there is something else or someone else that is screwing with us and putting us in the same room for some unknown reason or amusement?

The current price of gas is $3.57 here. That thought and $3.57 will get you a gallon of gas?

I'm more comfortable thinking that I'm screwing things up for myself all by myself. Ever sit in a Bauhaus chair? Horribly uncomfortable, but terribly progressive looking. To my mind, a perfect example of "tragically hip", not form following function.

Here's the picture LeMans was looking for. I thought this was Joules' car.

The holes might also make a nice home for less obtrusive turn signals if you went bumperless. I don't like the big bezels. Someone here suggested putting them behind the grill as well. Way down on my list, and more holes to fill. Oh well.

I am using the PIAA's also, but they are in the brake duct holes in my GTS chin spoiler. Because of their size, they apply themselves well.

Sat in the chair? Yes. Not everything is a great design. It isn't the design of the chair that is significant. It is the suggestion of using a common material rather then something made of unobtainium.

There are lots of good applications of Bauhaus thinking. Ever wonder where all of those black steel casement windows came from? Guess where?

I don't particularly appreciate them but they are an industrial application applied to residential situations. They aren't painted black. They are "Parkerized". That's straight out of the Detroit motor vehicle application.

Criticism can be a positive thing in the sense that "you" are attempting to make things better. Everyone is a critic but I personally draw the line at "my German Shepard doesn't like this" or "my German Shepard told me to kill them?"

I do admit to being a native New Yorker and having the characteristic of "complaining about absolutely everything...all of the time". Guilty.

That's why I don't do Architectural design. I quit when "the design comity" would bring in their 5 year olds and the design would get shot down because I used purple instead of pink in the rendering.

The 5 year olds are entitled to their opinions but their's shouldn't be the determining factor?

Now I go in the garage and lock the door. I don't care if there isn't anyone that agrees with me. Here's a secret. Often I don't agree with my own solution.

I'm also better at modifying someone else's design. Starting from a clean sheet of paper permits too many parameters.

Now I got the 2 holes in the back where the bumper shocks went thru the sheet metal… welding them shut or…

Dare to be different….

Measure the hole OD, then go to a big hardware store and look for plastic hole plugs. They're cheap and they come in a variety of colors and sizes. See how you like a simple plug as an alternative.

I’m thinking I go the same way as I did with my gas filler cap… make it a feature vs. hiding it…

Fine solution, but if I were in your exact position, and I am, I’d go for the plugs or the vinyl decal, and wait till the next session with a spray gun came round. On other hand, I would strongly suggest you watch the 60s bond film Goldfinger.

...do like the James Bond car...with Nozzles that spray Oil all over the Road to make the Cop car chasing You, loose control and go off the road!! LOL...OR, be as Me and Not worry about It! Because My Opinion is the Only One That Counts...Ever!

...And Be Happy...Between the front and rear bumpers and support gear, You dumped 60+ Pounds Into the Dumpster! Yes! It's Not just the Weight!...It's the 'Polar Moment of Inertia'!!

Don't Know? Read the Book, 'How to Make Your Car Handle'. And then...Read it Again, cover to cover, and back again!

MJ

P.S.

...And don't dare ask Me, where I purchased those Beautiful All RED Taillights...I won't Tell You!! One Pair of Only 3 Known to Exist on this Planet!!

@marlinjack posted:

...And Be Happy...Between the front and rear bumpers and support gear, You dumped 60+ Pounds Into the Dumpster! Yes! It's Not just the Weight!...It's the 'Polar Moment of Inertia'!!

Don't Know? Read the Book, 'How to Make Your Car Handle'. And then...Read it Again, cover to cover, and back again!

MJ

P.S.

...And don't dare ask Me, where I purchased those Beautiful All RED Taillights...I won't Tell You!! One Pair of Only 3 Known to Exist on this Planet!!

I don’t mind the front bumper… it’s weight where it’s needed (and as far forward as possible)  and I loose weight (37 pounds) behind the rear axle as far back as possible… it should help a little bit!!

I don't know for sure but I doubt that the real front bumper would save you from anything but a  little bump in the parking lot.

If I get a chance I will pull mine out of storage and weigh it but I think it is heavy and they have a tendency of delaminating the rubber from the steel under frame.

I think they are the came concept that GM used on the late '60sPontiac "endura nose".

I can always go back to it but for now I like the fiberglass solution. The idea of using the holes for front brake cooling ducting is a great idea though.

There’s a company called Bumper Plugs that sells exactly what people are discussing in this thread. You give them the exact size of the hole and your paint code and they supply body coloured plugs. They are popular with the Porsche crowd, to fill the license plate mounting holes in front bumpers.

@panteradoug posted:

I don't know for sure but I doubt that the real front bumper would save you from anything but a  little bump in the parking lot.

If I get a chance I will pull mine out of storage and weigh it but I think it is heavy and they have a tendency of delaminating the rubber from the steel under frame.

I think they are the came concept that GM used on the late '60sPontiac "endura nose".

I can always go back to it but for now I like the fiberglass solution. The idea of using the holes for front brake cooling ducting is a great idea though.

Some people take the bumper off and then add lead weight for a better weight distribution… I think Panteras is one of the better solutions for the afterthought of the crash bumper… (Lamborghini’s Railroad tie!)

Great clue on Bumperplugs.com. Thanks.

Here is what I came up with…

I put a grill over the hole…

purpose questionable but I just called it rear wheelhouse venting….

well, there is more to it… surprise..

Best solution yet. Would you mind telling me where you got them? I promise to never drive my car with 1000 miles of yours! McMaster-Carr has metric black oxide stainless steel Phillips head flathead screws that would go along nicely.

@Ed Harbur posted:

Best solution yet. Would you mind telling me where you got them? I promise to never drive my car with 1000 miles of yours! McMaster-Carr has metric black oxide stainless steel Phillips head flathead screws that would go along nicely.

I got those originally for the Corvette rear bumper…

You need to tap the pipe carefully out of the flange…. M4 x 0.7 thread 15mm long for this application.

i just paint my screws… powder coated black the rings and grill!

i’m flattered if I’m getting copied! You can park right next to me!

Thanks for the info. I ordered them in red, which, with a little luck, will sort of match my car. If it’s a low pressure area back there, it might be a good place to vent cabin air. Scary close to the exhaust, though.

@Ed Harbur posted:

Thanks for the info. I ordered them in red, which, with a little luck, will sort of match my car. If it’s a low pressure area back there, it might be a good place to vent cabin air. Scary close to the exhaust, though.

Just run the duct to the passenger side 😂

Passenger side… Oooof…

Marlinjack’s "non-soultion” looks pretty good too. Eventually, I plan to go to the GTS paint scheme, which appears to make the holes a non-event.

@Ed Harbur posted:

Passenger side… Oooof…

Marlinjack’s "non-soultion” looks pretty good too. Eventually, I plan to go to the GTS paint scheme, which appears to make the holes a non-event.

I like to be different… wife says difficult but I think she means different….

@marlinjack Has the right idea… He makes the car his own… Doesn’t care what other people think…  And that’s just the way I roll as well… And I am the last person who would give  MJ or any of you guys a hard time about the things you do !

Some people like what I’m doing others don’t - but in the end… It’s my car!

(May contain questionable taste)

Painting finished…

mounting new mini bumper and hole grills on Monday

Bumper and Grill

Dump the Hall "BigBore" mufflers.  I had a set.  hated the look of the droopy ends.  Gary designed them for the L bumper.  Either put ANSAs back on it or get a set of Quella stainless mufflers.

Just don’t spin it on the track, or people will have a hard time knowing what model Pantera it is!

Rocky

@panterapatt posted:

Dump the Hall "BigBore" mufflers.  I had a set.  hated the look of the droopy ends.  Gary designed them for the L bumper.  Either put ANSAs back on it or get a set of Quella stainless mufflers.

… or get a set of Lincoln Navigator resonators and some tips. Have someone fabricate mufflers that look exactly the way you want them to.

@davidnunn posted:

… or get a set of Lincoln Navigator resonators and some tips. Have someone fabricate mufflers that look exactly the way you want them to.

I am going to build my own mufflers… I always do… but I can’t get it done before the 18th… the car has to be driving to Irvine for the Palooza!!!

I am in full  electric mode  right   now…⚡️💥⚡️✨🚥💡🔌

The Lincoln resonator info is at the end of this topic:

https://pantera.infopop.cc/topic/exhaust-drone

The toughest part of any Pantera muffler project is finding an appropriate muffler to use as the starting point. Most off-the-shelf mufflers are simply too big.

@rocky posted:

Just don’t spin it on the track, or people will have a hard time knowing what model Pantera it is!

Rocky

Can you imagine if I spent a weekend and make  button doors on it… THAT would be a mind bender..🤪. 😳

@davidnunn posted:

The Lincoln resonator info is at the end of this topic:

https://pantera.infopop.cc/topic/exhaust-drone

The toughest part of any Pantera muffler project is finding an appropriate muffler to use as the starting point. Most off-the-shelf mufflers are simply too big.

I’m going to cut the exhaust pulse and give them different lengths to travel… that always worked very well… no glass pack in the muffler…. Maybe resonator tips angled up..