Cable Shifter

In car shifter:

quote:

Originally posted by Dave2811:
Hey guys,

I thought I would provide a review of the cable shifter conversion that is offered by a sponsor of this forum, http://www.saccrestorations.net/

I had kicked around the idea for awhile primarily because the 42 year old mechanism in my car was progressively fighting my efforts to shift smoothly, and enjoy the car. I had tried all the usual quick fixes like replacing the trunnion bearing, removing the detent at the shifter, replacing the shifter handle, and machining the fingers out of the gate. Faced with the more difficult things like replacing the u-joints and replacing the bushing at the trans shift housing, I decided to go the cable route.

I'm glad I did and did not listen to the negative voices found in a forum search. There are a lot of detractors of the cable shifter conversion for some reason, and those detractors do not have a system in their car, or are commenting on the early unit that Lloyd B. developed. I think an updated thread is in order.

I can tell you that I have the latest from Scott Bell, and it works beautifully. The feeling through the gears is crisp and positive. The ability to make adjustments and lock them is dead simple, and the total install can be done in one Saturday afternoon if you are good with tools and know your way around your car. Faced with an old and worn original linkage, this is a valid and great alternative.

Note that the new shifter fits with the original console trim, and the bracket that is bolted to the ZF will still allow the use of the fiberglass trunk liner. You do loose the backup switch and light function, but a clever guy could adapt a different switch (my future project).

You will need to remove the center console to gain access to the sheet metal just aft of the shifter for a new bracket. I was able to lift up the console at the rear instead of removing it altogether, saving a lot of hassle. You will also need to make simple bracket to keep the cables tidy in the engine compartment. A couple of pix:

I must be missing something, I looked at the attached weblink and don't see anything about a cable shifter except for one reference in a post about their project car. How much $$$ is the system?

David,

Thank you for the review and the beautiful pictures!

Scott

quote:

I'm glad I did and did not listen to the negative voices found in a forum search. There are a lot of detractors of the cable shifter conversion for some reason, and those detractors do not have a system in their car, or are commenting on the early unit that Lloyd B. developed. I think an updated thread is in order.

Very good point. This product has been redesigned multiple times since its inception. The last owner of the product was a very nice gentleman and did a great job with the Pantera design but there were a couple of geometry issues that made adjustment more difficult. Since he didn't own a Pantera, I think it was more difficult for the R & D work that needed to be done. When SACC Restorations took over the product, we made a few geometry changes that really improved the ease of adjustment. The same changes also made the feel of the shifter to be more positive and precise.

quote:

You do loose the backup switch and light function, but a clever guy could adapt a different switch (my future project).

This is true. It really wouldn't be to difficult for a clever guy to adapt a switch. That being said, SACC Restorations will be offering the kit with a backup switch sometime in the near future so those kits will include backup light functionality. But again, there are many places a switch can be placed to trigger the backup lights when the shifter is placed into reverse.

So...when will we see it for sale? Find nothing on the website. Tease, tease, tease.

quote:

I must be missing something, I looked at the attached weblink and don't see anything about a cable shifter except for one reference in a post about their project car. How much $$$ is the system?

You are not missing anything. We haven't actually officially launched the product yet. That is why it isn't on our website.

We have another website where there is a bit more information but that site is also under development. The site address is:

http://cncperformanceparts.com/

The demand has been high so we have been filling orders one-by-one as they come in. These shifters work nicely in many other cars. For example, we have sold into several GT40's, a Lambo kit car, a Mangusta and a number of Pantera's.

This has all been done in the short time since SACC Restorations took over the product and did our redesign.

We sell the cable shifter as a complete kit including cables, or as individual components for special situations.

The shifter in the cabin sells for $499.95. That includes a suede boot and a leather shift knob.

The ZF adaptor also sells for $499.95. It comes complete with everything you need to get it installed on the ZF including the stainless shifter barrel/butterfly assembly.

The last components needed are the two cables. The cables are $100.00 each. This brings the kit price to $1199.95.

We are offering early adopters the cables for free. So the kit price is $999.95!

Not sure how long that offer will be in place as we are still ramping up production. Lead time right now is about 4 weeks however that could change.

I am working on get many more pictures on the website so check back soon.

Thanks for your interest!

Scott

Dave, thank you for your great review. It helped push me over the edge and I got mine on Friday. I first got interested at the POCA Fun Rally where Scott had a demo on display. Last Fall I was in the area and stopped by his shop and sat in his car and tried it out. It seemed great, but the car wasn't running then so I couldn't give it a real test. It's going to be a while before I get to test it on my car as I have quite a bit of work to do to get it back on the road.

A couple of questions. Have you done anything about a backup switch? I think the best solution may be a reed switch paired with an appropriate Magnet. The most common use for them is to trigger alarm systems but those are usually limited to 0.5 amps or less. Here's and outfit that seems to have a good selection of higher amp (1 to 3) switches. http://www.bgmicro.com/search.aspx?find=reed+switch They also have Magnets. Not having my shifter on my ZF yet it's a bit hard to visualize where/how to mount the switch and magnet but I doubt it would be very hard to do.

Second question, it looks like your ZF has been painted. If so, what paint was used. I'm going to be painting mine and was also thinking of painting the shifter to match.

I would personally NOT paint the ZF transmission, based on the simple FACT, an unpainted ZF case/transmission will transfer/alleviate heat FASTER than a painted one!...Mark

Scott,

You might want to talk to Jon Haas about the backup lights switch matter. For a while he had a gear indicator display listed as "under development" on his web site. I believe the prototype is installed in his Pantera. I'm sure he'd be able to apply his design to a reverse switch.

quote:

I would personally NOT paint the ZF transmission, based on the simple FACT, an unpainted ZF case/transmission will transfer/alleviate heat FASTER than a painted one!...Mark

There are facts, and then there is actual experience to help put those facts into proper perspective.

I agree an unpainted ZF case very likely sheds internal heat more efficiently than a painted one.

But my last 15 years of Pantera Land experience has led me to believe, based on repeated owner experiences, that unless your Pantera is racing or involved in a 90 mile open road event, not enough internal heat is generated to make its enhanced/restricted dissipation an issue of concern.

Owners who have installed temp senders in their ZF just don't see any gear oil heat issues in regular or spirited driving.

I'll be retrieving my ZF from Lloyd next week. I'll try to remember to ask him if a painted case is any sort of concern to him.

Larryu

Painting ZF shouldn't be much of an issue.

1) If you were to run into heat issues by painting it, your ZF box would have an issue already.
2) Many engines - whether air or water cooled - come painted.
3) In case you would be really worried, there does exist actually heat conductive/dissipating paint, used in al sorts of applications - power plants, electrical engines, household heating etc...
4) I've painted engines before myself - engines that had no paint on them originally - and have never had one running hotter afterwards (that said, painted with proper enige paint).

Polishing a ZF is actually worse cooling wise - the surface needs to be kind of "rough". Air flows too easily over a polished surface, and that is not what you want when it comes to air cooling...

I have a painted ZF on one of my Panteras and have painted several other ZFs. The painted ZF has run in several Open Road Racing events and more than a dozen open track days with out a temperature problem. I do not believe the insulating factor is a material issue.

BTW, I have a polished ZF on my other Pantera; so, I am not simply advocating to reinforce a decision I have already made.

I prefer a painted ZF for ease of cleaning, long term appearance and significantly less effort to maintain it's appearance. The polished ZF is a PIA to maintain.

Paint = two thumbs up.

I have no experience with Scott’s kit (which looks very nice BTW), but do have both a rod actuated shift linkage in my Pantera, a cable operated shifter in my SPF GT40, and have driven version in each car, and actually like them both. When properly adjusted they both work very well.

In the Pantera, the OE rubber isolated trunion bushing is often the culprit of a poor performing rod linkage system. The shift rod does need to change angle a bit as it moves through the various gear positions and the rubber isolator bushing in the trunion is meant to allow this freedom. After years the rubber can become hard and require more shift effort or rot and no longer control position precisely.

On my PCar, the OE trunion and pushrod were replaced with a Teflon rod end and stainless tube substituted for the shifting rod. The tube/rod has the stock splines welded onto the ends to retain the OE u-joints and the OD has been turned and polished to close tolerance to fit the ID of the bronze bushing pressed into the rod end. It is low friction self-lubricating sliding joint so no lube is present to collect dirt and foul. With all u-joints and the bushing in the shift bucket lubed and in good shape, this does make for very precise shifting. I’d describe the difference in feel compared to (my) cable shifted GT40 as the rod shifter being somewhat lower friction, particularly between gears, and you really feel every bit of mechanical engagement of the synchros and can feel the difference between a hot and cold ZF. The same is true of a good cable system but with the system in my 40, it does seem to buffer and dampen the feel in the steps of mechanical engagement compared to my Pantera set up. This all can vary in cable systems depending upon the type of lining in the cable, the diameter of the cable, and the routing and bend radius of cable and sheath.

Other than the OE trunion, another thing I have seen with Pantera rod actuated systems is they can be affected by position changes due to the movement of engine and ZF assembly because the linkage is rigidly mounted and referenced to the chassis whereas the engine and ZF typically are just mounted in the isolators. If the engine and ZF assemble torque under load, this can change the initial geometry of rod linkage. Typically this is a small error compared the shifting actuation but can become a larger factor, particularly over time as the elastomeric engine isolator donuts tend to age, relax, and allow more engine/ZF movement if not compensated with tightening the mounting bolts.

Cable actuated systems seem to be less sensitive to all the above because the cables aren’t rigidly referenced to the chassis. Over time the cables can wear into the liners which can make them less precise but with good quality cables and sensible routing this should take a very long time.

With proper initial set up, I’ve been happy with both.

Best,
K

So let's see it in action!!!!!

https://vimeo.com/122875771

quote:

Originally posted by rbarkley671:
.....
A couple of questions. Have you done anything about a backup switch? I think the best solution may be a reed switch paired with an appropriate Magnet. ....

Second question, it looks like your ZF has been painted. If so, what paint was used. I'm going to be painting mine and was also thinking of painting the shifter to match.

I have not moved on the backup light switch yet. The reed switch idea sounds interesting. I was thinking of a simple microswitch solution somehow.

I painted the ZF with Eatswood's Alumablast spray paint, followed with satin clear. Looks great and is easy to clean.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave2811:

I have not moved on the backup light switch yet. The reed switch idea sounds interesting. I was thinking of a simple microswitch solution somehow.

I painted the ZF with Eatswood's Alumablast spray paint, followed with satin clear. Looks great and is easy to clean.

After looking at Scott's video and my parts I think a microswitch (or some other mechanical switch) might work better than my reed switch idea, by placing it to switch at the top cable's most forward position (which is in reverse). Picking up the bearing mounted L piece's most forward position might be the easiest to do. Another alternative if the car, like mine, is disassembled would be to put the switch in with the front shifter lever. Other than the wiring hastel this would be the cleanest solution as it would get rid of the wires in the engine compartment. Of course if things got out of adjustment, it would be harder to fix.

Hi Everyone:

Malin Motors in NJ has developed a reverse switch for the cable shifter. I have a cable shifter as well , works great !!!
Malin Motors did the install.

My .02

Wayne GT5-S #9436