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On a stock iron 4v Cleveland the general concensus is that 500hp is very attainable with not much drama.



In the '70s magazines were covering people like "Dyno" Don Nicholson and Bob Glidden.

Glidden had the #1 Pro Stock number which meant he was the #1 top of the hill winner but Nicholson was a close competitor both with Pro Stock Pintos. Circa 1973.



Nicholson was very public of the parts he was using, at least sometimes and a number was thrown around with the "iron Cleveland" of being "factored with the NHRA chart" of in the 750 to 800hp vicinity.

Dyno Don also made it known that Ford had "dropped off" to him, for his use, some "experimental" aluminum blocks and heads. These later were thought to be originated out of Fords "Indy Race Engine Program" and were cast sometime in 1968.



Now one of the keys to get that kind of horsepower out of a iron 357 Cleveland was to use the "high port exhaust" modification, pictures of which I posted here.

But the aluminum heads FROM FORD had those cast in.

So although the modification is often attributed to Nicholson, it is clear where the concept came from originally.



In Pro Stock Nichcolson ran an iron 357 but in match racing, an all aluminum Cleveland of I think 409ci?

I had a friend that purchased all of that stuff from Nicholson, said the four aluminum blocks were trashed but didn't mention the heads. He has passed and I can no longer ask about that stuff now.



Generally speaking, that high port exhaust is not usable in most cars like a Mustang, However, it will fit in a Pantera with custom made 180° headers.

I'm using Ford Motorsport A3 heads which are raised ports both on the intakes and the exhausts but the exhausts are not as radically raised as those old "racing" ports were.



Now considering that launch rpm's were for quite a while in the 9,000 to 9,500 rpm's so likely 750hp is only obtainable at those kind of rpms? Back then NO ONE in Pro Stock would admit that number. Apparently it was a proprietary number?



With current aluminum aftermarket heads with rpm limits around 7,000 to 7,200rpm, 650 isn't unrealistic. It just depends on how much you want to spend. Completely "stock", 500hp is obtainable without too much drama.



As far as I know, the XE, "Australian, aka, Nascar" Cleveland block originated in this era. It was this flat out racing that indicated the original 4 bolt production blocks would "eventually" crack through the center main indicating a stronger block was necessary.

Some stories of it's origin associate Warren Tope's USA raced Group 4 Pantera as the catalyst that made the XE block happen but that's an entirely separate story.

His father worked for Ford high enough to get that block made for racing.

So depending on how serious you are to making horsepower with longevity, you might need to consider adding an XE block to the parts list or talking to Timothy Meyer about one of his blocks, if you can get one? Just think, "very expensive".



As the old adage suggests, "how fast you want to go depends on how much you want to spend?" It gets expensive really fast BUT the necessary parts are out there. Somewhere.

Sorry for the long post but more often then not I find answers are not as simple as people want them to be and they look for more answers to explain how we got to this point.





Here's a couple of videos clearly illustrating the aluminum Ford Indy stuff with a part II follow up that pretty much accurately describes the parts.

The engine sitting on the engine stand was when former Pantera owner Jeff Burgy owned it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT2hT-vsWII

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvBfvZuljRk

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  • 351c Nicholson  Exhaust Port modification 1
Last edited by panteradoug

You can actually get close to 500hp fairly inexpensively if you already have the closed chamber heads.

A Pantera already has headers. I wound up with 495 with a cam, a Torker intake and a Holley 4779 carb. That was with closed chamber iron 4v heads.

What happens is that you become an addict and crave more. There is no cure for that but the rush lasts a long time.

@panteradoug posted:

You can actually get close to 500hp fairly inexpensively if you already have the closed chamber heads.

A Pantera already has headers. I wound up with 495 with a cam, a Torker intake and a Holley 4779 carb. That was with closed chamber iron 4v heads.

What happens is that you become an addict and crave more. There is no cure for that but the rush lasts a long time.

Can you share your full engine setup?

That one is gone, I upgraded

The only additional component to add to what I stated was a Compcams, solid lifter cam. I don't run hydraulic lifters.

https://www.compcams.com/magnu...-351c-351m-400m.html

Since then I went to more cam, 180° headers with 2" primaries, Ford A3 heads, 50 mm EFI throttle bodies on a Weber intake. FAST CPU.

This cam:

https://www.compcams.com/magnu...-351c-351m-400m.html

Plus for both the typical stuff like roller rocker arms, Ford Motorsport solid state distributor. Pantera-electronics Engine Ignition Controller.

Aviaid 10 qt oil pan with separate oil cooler. Probably some other components I forgot to mention, but I am watching the Eagles/Rams so not even working on half a brain as usual...less.

This engine in the 650 range but don't know for sure but it is...peppy!

The iron one above is good too but much more affordable



You want the top one with the iron heads. It can be made to look stock-sish. The double pumper is a little heavy at idle but not as bad as the Webers at idle and you are killing the people behind you so who cares? You don't hear anything in the cabin and can play the Spice Girls on your stereo and hear the harmony.

You probably will need bigger brakes though? Yes, definitely bigger brakes.

Last edited by panteradoug

There isn't an intake manifold that looks stock that will give you the same power. It is probably closer to 450hp with any of those?

I had the original version of the Blue Thunder, i.e., the CS SHELBY script one and it was down on power v. the Edelbrock Torker. So you are limiting yourself on power with cosmetics.



I never tried any of the Aussie stuff but that is largely for 2v Aussie heads? Furthermore, the dyno numbers that I have seen publish with those combinations all seem to be in the high 300hp's. Maybe there is someone here that has a recommendation for that kind of set up that has better results?

The aluminum Ford intake is a nice looking intake but I never tried one but would expect it to be similar to the Blue Thunder. Those you won't have to screw around with to make fit under the screen.



It may look stock at some point but will not sound stock with either of those cams and I hate recommending cams since so many people interpret their operating characteristics VERY differently.

I will agree that neither of those two are going to make it sound like a Lincoln idling.



I am probably not the guy to talk to about how to build the engine? I'm kind of like Troy Aikman. "I kind of live in the past".

Last edited by panteradoug

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