SOLD! Complete Mind Train Exhaust system, Stage III Jet Hot Coated Headers, Big Throat pipes, and the crossover/balance tube. Sold!

They look very nice, and seem to be reasonably priced because of their condition.

I noted your shipping costs are listed as only $34, which is going to be much, much less than your actual expense. ❓🤷‍♂️❓

Larry

Are the primary tubes 2"? Very nice system.

Thank you Larry, I just updated the shipping size and weight.

The header tubes are 1.75" OD, the exhaust pipes are 2.5" OD.

The headers are very good quality, I'm told they were manufactured for Mind Train by Cragar. The exhaust flanges are .375" thick.

Wow! Talk about rare. Very cool!

FYI:  Mind Train mufflers had angle cut tips but these don't look like they are angle cut. Headers and crossover look different too. I'm not saying this isn't a Mind Train system but there are some minor differences between what's pictured in the Mind Train catalog and what the OP has shown here. I bought a set of Mind Train headers in the '80's and mine looked exactly the same as the ones in the catalog. I believe they were made for Mind Train by Hedman. The ones in the OP's photos have a distinctly different collector. Hey, if the OP bought this entire system from Mind Train, my apologies. 

David, please look closely at the chrome exhaust tips in the pictures above and the eBay ad. They are clearly angle-cut. This Mind Train system was purchased by Greg Kirkilewski on 2/27/86 from Fred Matsumoto invoice number 001132. Very good quality design, welds, and installation/fit.

The system in your image looks like it was designed to have a field upgrade balance tube.

The ad mentions a torque gain of 30 to 40 lb.ft; is it an estimate or the result of measurements on a dyno with and without the balance tube, all the rest of the system being identical, whether with this Mind Train system or another?

The 30-40lb/ft increase is an estimate from others posted on this site.

I am not aware of a true study of performance gains, but perhaps someone can enlighten us.

No bids, was there a buy it now price?

No bids yet, probably because I just listed it last night.

You could send me a PM with an offer.......

I have had the Mind Train system with the crossover on my Pantera for about 30 years. When I had the crossover pipe installed there where two things that were suggested to be done. The first one was to brace the crossover pipe back to the exhaust pipe to keep it from breaking. The second thing was to drill a hole in the lower outer housing of the cross over tube and into the center tube section. The reason was to keep the pressure the equal between the two areas. Without that the heat from the exhaust could actually crush the center tube. Naturally the crossover tube outer housing hole was welded shut after the hole was drilled into the center hole. The crossover tube changed the way the engine sounded in my car, which prior to installation there was a crackling sound with just the Mind Train headers. With the crossover tube installed the crackling sound was gone. Seat of the pants feeling did seem like the car had a bit more low end torque after the crossover tube was installed, but that is not real data.

@fordismyboss posted:

David, please look closely at the chrome exhaust tips in the pictures above and the eBay ad. They are clearly angle-cut. This Mind Train system was purchased by Greg Kirkilewski on 2/27/86 from Fred Matsumoto invoice number 001132. Very good quality design, welds, and installation/fit.

The system in your image looks like it was designed to have a field upgrade balance tube.

The image is from the Mind Train catalog. There are quite a few scans from the Mind Train catalog here on the PI web site. Just do a search for Mind Train mufflers or Mind Train exhaust.

There seem to have been (at least)  two variations of the Mind Train system. One where the glass packs are in line with the exhaust tips, and one where the tips are angled so they exit straight out (like the one for sale here), rather than upwards. Both with angle cut tips.

Rene, its pretty well known that Jet-Hot coating of headers (which also includes coating the inside) will increase power and torque noticeably. I believe someone (maybe me) posted the results of a before and after test with superbike headers being jet-hot coated and they DID show a substantial gain. But its been decades.

Here are the equalizer weld/installation instructions that came with this system in 1986.

@bosswrench posted:

Rene, its pretty well known that Jet-Hot coating of headers (which also includes coating the inside) will increase power and torque noticeably. I believe someone (maybe me) posted the results of a before and after test with superbike headers being jet-hot coated and they DID show a substantial gain. But its been decades.

I was talking about the balance tube, not the coating.

Guys! What have I done wrong? No bids on this great exhaust system. I think it's priced more than fair. Not enough pictures, information? What am I missing?

Thank you for reading.

Give it Time.  Need to fine a Pantera owner that is looking for this exhaust system.  I know it is supposed to be one of the best, but I have heard in some Pantera circles that they don't like the looks of the equalizer tube.  GLWA on eBay.  Larry

How did you come to own it? Was it on a Pantera you bought but you removed it?

@davidnunn posted:

How did you come to own it? Was it on a Pantera you bought but you removed it?

Yes, in November 2021, I bought a pristine, updated, show quality, low mileage 1972 Pantera for the sole purpose of swapping to modern Ford power. PO had this car for 30 years; was a meticulous owner too!

I assume you switched to Coyote power, so you couldn’t use the headers but why didn’t you use the Mind Train mufflers? Just curious.

@davidnunn posted:

I assume you switched to Coyote power, so you couldn’t use the headers but why didn’t you use the Mind Train mufflers? Just curious.

David, great question! This exhaust system sounded fantastic with the 351 Cleveland, and I am a huge fan of the Cleveland! Had them when I was a kid and have 6 now in different cars/set-ups! The system should stay with the 351C in a Pantera!!

The new motor has higher exhaust velocity and requires a different tune and is a different sound.

I think the reason it isn't selling is, the price is too high for a quick sale. After all, it's a used exhaust system. Glasspack mufflers wear out, but no one really knows where, on these mufflers life-span curve, they are. At this price, you'll need to wait until a Pantera owner needs an exhaust system right NOW and must have a Mind Train system. If it was cheaper, someone that doesn't need a system right now might buy it and put it away until it's needed.

My 2 cents !

What does the cross over pipe look

like u see the car?   That might help in my mind!

@Mike A posted:

What does the cross over pipe look

like u see the car?   That might help in my mind!

Here is a picture of the equalizer/balance tube before it was removed. Thank you for the question.

@davidnunn posted:

I think the reason it isn't selling is, the price is too high for a quick sale. After all, it's a used exhaust system. Glasspack mufflers wear out, but no one really knows where, on these mufflers life-span curve, they are. At this price, you'll need to wait until a Pantera owner needs an exhaust system right NOW and must have a Mind Train system. If it was cheaper, someone that doesn't need a system right now might buy it and put it away until it's needed.

My 2 cents !

Mind Train exhaust systems do little to muffle the engine. The "mufflers" are straight through steel tubes!

Who wouldn’t need a set of these?

From a 1987 Issue of PI News..