Confused ******* needs help

Hey Larry, Today a Canadian frigate caught pirates and then released them...... (Maybe they thought thay were on a 'catch and release' fishing expedition )

No seriously this goes back to the 'capital punishment' debate. In the Middle East (as rumour goes) a thief that gets caught has his hand cut off and a an unfaithful wife gets lapidated.

What is the right way of changing behaviours?....Apparently shock and awe, murder assasination and force is not working; look at Irak. If you find a solution please share I'm (we're) all ears.

Your friend (I hope)
Denis

Larry, it won't kill you, or transform you to listen to the opposition. Sometimes, it adds insight! The only thing I've heard is an weak argument that Obama took too long to issue the shoot order and then took more credit for it than he deserved. My view from the right...it worked; end of discussion. (I kinda miss Air America - they helped me stay a bit more centered!)

Terry

I applaud Obama for getting it right with the pirates. My only question is, why does he have to apologize to Latin American dictators; or in a similar faux pas, Obama speaking about getting rid of nukes while the North Korean rocket launches towards who knows where, or bowing to a Saudi king when a bow is not required, except from one who is a subject? I could go on and on about stuff he has done in the good 'ol USA that is really screwed up too. Like giving billions to car companies that will be in bankruptcy anyway, or giving billions to AIG, while they give huge bonuses to executives (remember Geitner, the only guy smart enough to do the job of Secretary of the Treasury, IRS cheat Geitner, the same one who AIG went to in New York when they were in trouble? Oh yea, but the Obama administration had no idea about the bonuses -- what a bunch of bull). Lehman Brothers gave all kinds of bonuses to their people, the day before they took TARP funds -- but you will not hear about that in the mainstream media either -- I wonder why? (HINT: the mainstream media is in the pocket of Obama....)

So yes, he did get it right with the pirates -- no doubt about it; but there are too many other spots where he really misses the mark and really comes up short -- and it looks like amateur hour just like the Carter administration back in the day.....

quote:

the mainstream media is in the pocket of Obama

I think it would be far more accurate to say the MSM is in the hands of corporate America, which in turn is a strong force in the control of BOTH mainstream political parties.

Good thing I'm not the Pres.
Curt

Good thing I am not president either.

There would be a national DeTomaso Day along with tax credits for work done on cars over 30 years old.

Hopefully that would stimulate my stimulus......

quote:

There would be a national DeTomaso Day along with tax credits for work done on cars over 30 years old.

Here! Here!

Seriously though, I'm on the right and I have no problem with the action taken by US forces against the pirates.

Actually I do have one problem... Why the hell did it take them so long to take action! Why wasn't the SEAL team poised and ready to go when Capt. Phillips made his daring escape attempt. That lifeboat should have been blown right out of the water as soon as Phillips was off the boat the first time. At least the right call was made in the end.

Now to stir the pot...
Another possibility is to take a 'no tolerance' stand against such acts of piracy. US forces should immediately and completely destroy all pirate vessels and kidnapped vessels involved in the taking of a US vessel before they're allowed to reach port in Somalia. This must be a swift and immediate response - the initial cost will include a few lives of US hostages, but soon pirates would cease to target US registered ships as there would be absolutely no hope of profiting from such a venture. Just a thought.

Garth, I partially agree with you but I still don't understand it when people put themselves in harms way then expect the government to get them out of trouble.

Just the same there are 2 things to think of.

1.- Many of these ships may be owned by Canadian or US companies fly foreign flags for tax purposes and have mainly 3rd world crews; if it has a Bermuda flag, Philipino crew and an American Captain is it an American ship ??

2.- These events occur in international waters which could certainly create international incidents. How far out to sea are these ships sailing if the pirates board with zodiacks.

Just my 2 cents
Denis

Denis-
400 miles. They use "fishing" vessels as mother ships.

How about we send out a fleet of decoy cargo ships, armed to the hilt with concealed guns and crewed by Marines or Seals. They won't be stopping at any ports so the fact that they're armed shouldn't matter.

Wouldn't those baaad pirates be surprised when they hauled themselves up onto the deck? Or, better still, just blow them out of the water when they approach and then sink the mother ships too when they come looking for their comrades. Don't blow the ruse by announcing the operation, just quietly start doing it.

I suppose it would violate the pirates sense of fair play as they seem to think it is their right to conduct their operations. This is evidenced by their statements that they will "treat the Americans as we treat them"

Here is my take on the subject.
- Pirates fly no country flag. No country therefore no international incident.
- They operate in stealth mode. No radio No float plan. No one knows they are there. Just sink them - no one will miss them. Quit fooling around with trying to "rescue" them and process them through a court system.
- The only people that will complain will be the people financing them -Now there is a new target. Odds are no one will complain and the problem will go away as quietly as it started.


just my two cents..

quote:

I still don't understand it when people put themselves in harms way then expect the government to get them out of trouble.

I would agree completely if it were a pleasure vessel sailing where it shouldn't - waters known to be dangerous. The cost to extract one person is astronomical! However, this was not a pleasure craft ignoring prudent warning of known danger, but a commercial vessel using a regular commercial route - no other option in that part of the world exists.

quote:

Just the same there are 2 things to think of.

1.- Many of these ships may be owned by Canadian or US companies fly foreign flags for tax purposes and have mainly 3rd world crews; if it has a Bermuda flag, Philipino crew and an American Captain is it an American ship ??

2.- These events occur in international waters which could certainly create international incidents. How far out to sea are these ships sailing if the pirates board with zodiacks.

Yeah, I thought of those things too, but didn't care to go into a lengthy analysis of the subject. Just wanted to stir the pot.

As for international waters, it may not be considered an act of aggression against a country, but rather only against the pirates. Maybe the Navy should have waited for all the additional pirate vessels coming to the aid of their comrades to arrive on scene, then sink them all. That would have considerably cut down on the number pirates and pirate vessels available to this lawless bunch to commit their crimes. But then there's the issue of the hostages of foreign allies of ours who would certainly perish in such an operation - would definitely strain our foreign relations.

And, then there are the ramifications of sinking privately owned commercial vessels (and cargo) - I'm sure a number of the companies who own these ships and their cargo would prefer to pay a multi-million dollar ransom to get their insured property back (vessel and cargo, and possibly the crew) as these would cost millions more than a ransom to replace.

There is no cut and dry answer. But, unprovoked aggression left unchecked will continue to escalate; Remember the playground bully in elementary school? He took your lunch money every day until you finally were fed up and gave him a bloody nose. Or how about Hitler? Unprovoked aggression run a muck! I could go on, but I won't. There is no easy answer, but the problem will only get worse if allowed to persist.

I see some good points here and in principle I agree with a zero tolerance stance, however as of yet no one has mentioned the idiots that perpetuate this sort of crime.....those that have paid over millions of dollars in ransom money. Those are the people that have escalated modern piracy because the ransom a) allows the Pirates to better equip themselves and b) validates to all Somali's that it's an easy get rich quick scheme.

Only now that the US, French and Dutch have taken action against hijacked ships/personnel has any sort of retaliation been made, as usual it's too little too late. The piracy isn't new, everyone was prepared to sit back for a time and say it's not my problem, the companies that could afford it paid up ransom money, those that couldn't, well there's still about 300 seamen being held hostage, mostly Filipino's. Did you hear about them on CNN.... No you didn't, until an American flagged ship was boarded.

On the flip side I sympathize that ships which choose to register offshore to avoid taxes shouldn't enjoy the benefits and protection that the tax dollar would buy. But the need to cull these Somali Pirates currently outweighs that argument, however once again it should not be down to the US to do that alone. Where's the f$@&in U.N. when it comes down to the 'Global' fight against piracy, and as a final comment let's stop giving it a cute 1800's swashbuckling moniker, that conjures up images of Johnny Depp, the way it’s practiced in modern day it basically amounts to ‘terrorism’ by another name.

Julian

Call the pirates by their politically correct term:

Somali Merchant Marine Community Organizers with a Solid Business Plan

" but you will not hear about that in the mainstream media either -- I wonder why?"

Why didnt we hear about this when BUSH was in office back in JULY ? So they never found weapons of Mass Distruction ? and who gave then the yellow cake ?

" The United States secretly shipped out of Iraq more than 500 tons of low-grade uranium dating back to the Saddam Hussein era, the Pentagon said Monday." Yellow Cake for weapons !

" we send out a fleet of decoy cargo ships"

You can be sure the USA is already employing this tactic in Afganastan ... the are decoying whole cities and waiting for the Alcada to come in and BY BY ! Oh and by the way that havent told us the truth about the magnitude of the WAR we are fighting in Afganastan RIGHT NOW how many of the 100's of thousand troops have you seen come home ?

Politicians both sides left and right are crooks.