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I would value a true Euro GTS higher than a US GTS car, however many Euro cars are being termed GTS in sales pitches these days as unlike the "GT' in the VIN of a US car there is no discernible way of telling other than original paperwork. The US GTS package was mostly cosmetic, the Euro cars had other upgrades and the mouse hair dash.

punkdog posted:

I own a 1979 GTS 9193. What's the difference ? Mouse ? The only difference I see is the spoiler aft of the rear window.

I have been led to believe that all post Ford cars were custom ordered so all are somewhat unique , Euro or not. But I'm not sure of anything on these cars other than it's a nice machine that's fun to work on.

I should have qualified my statement by saying pre-74 cars, the 9,000 series cars are in a group of their own and yes each one a custom order/build.

rene4406 posted:

It seems to me that the Euro GTS have a more powerful engine, 330 or 350 hp vs 270 for the US GTS. Am I wrong?

Others mentioned 'custom order': to me the value of the Euro GTS is, such Panteras could be factory ordered with any or all of the factory Gr-3 enhancements intended for international club-level racing and hill-climbing. GR-4 parts were also possible across the counter, both for non-factory installation. The Supplemental Parts List for the '71-up Euro GTS is 16 pgs long. NONE were available in the U.S. until after Ford departed the scene.

With a Euro-GTS, it was like Christmas morning as you looked at what was 'uncommon' on a Pantera! The factory parts available included Weber intakes, (likely) Boss heads and cams, factory Holley 4 bbls on aluminum intakes and freer-flowing exhaust systems.Even stereos were factory-available. Handling updates were also listed as well as custom ZF gear ratios, 10" magnesium rear wheels and far bigger tires with fender flares.

Nowadays- 48 years later, dependable 600 bhp Panteras with 6-speed ZFs, giant wheels & tires and with enhancements DeTomaso and Dallara never dreamed of are commonly available. Bring money and your dreams!

rene4406 posted:

It seems to me that the Euro GTS have a more powerful engine, 330 or 350 hp vs 270 for the US GTS. Am I wrong?

The GTS engine differed from the Pantera & Pantera L via the installation of the GTS exhaust system and a 650 cfm Holley double pumper carburetor. That's all. To my knowledge De Tomaso NEVER swapped pistons or cylinder heads.  So the engines had whatever compression was standard for the particular long block being used.  350 DIN horsepower (346 SAE Net horsepower) may have been realistic when the first GTS models were introduced in 1972. They would have used a 1972 Q code long block (8.6:1 compression) , Cobra Jet cam, high port (i.e. 4V) heads, and added the 650 Holley and GTS exhaust. However the compression ratio dropped in 1973-1974. Power would have diminished ... but De Tomaso continued to quote the original 350 horsepower measurement, just as they continued to quote 330 horsepower for the Pantera and Pantera L

When US manufactured 351 4V engines were no longer available De Tomaso  substituted the Australian 351 4V. The Australian 351 4V had 8.8:1 compression, was equipped with the same camshaft as the 351 2V, and had 2V cylinder heads (lower ports and smaller ports tuned for lower rpm). Ford of Australia falsely rated the engines of ALL 351GT Falcons at 300 horsepower whether it had been imported from the US or manufactured domestically. Over the years I've seen other ratings from 215 DIN horsepower to 260 DIN horsepower for the Australian 351 4V engine. For what its worth, 300 DIN horsepower peaking at 5400 rpm is equivalent to 244 DIN horsepower peaking at 4400 rpm (the 2V heads are tuned 1000 rpm lower than the 4V heads).

At best, the "true" output of the Pantera GTS equipped with an Australian engine would have dropped from 350 DIN horsepower @ 5800 rpm to about 290 DIN horsepower @ 4800 rpm ... by virtue of the fact that the 2V heads are tuned about 1000 rpm lower than the 4V heads. Some owners claim De Tomaso did not swap camshafts, if this is true the output would have been even lower because the valve lift would be about 0.400 inch instead of 0.480 inch.

Last edited by George P

 Question, trying to trace my Pantera (9193) so I contacted Mr. Schaub to see what he had. He responded with he only had info on the engine. Nothing else. I backed off from sending the $70.00 he wants when his ID high jack post appeared.

Do you guys see any value in paying $70.00 to get a copy of the original engine record ?

Not being a Ford guy I have been trying to nail down the engine model with little success. Then again I know next to nothing on these engines. It looks to be the original Cleveland engine. Drak blue paint , Holley carb, dual point auto lite dist, aluminum intake with a 600 cfm (?) Holley carb with headers.  Sound about right ?

This post was forked into a new topic here: Trying to determine which engine my Euro GTS is equipped with.

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