Exhaust

The mufflers pictured above are Hall Big Bore. The mufflers of choice are Pantera Performance Center's stainless steel GTS style. They have matching headers too and it's been reported they fit perfectly. Sound great too. Since they don't fit, why not return your PIM headers and buy PPC's complete system.

https://www.facebook.com/Pante...eos/1024307807694298

This are nice, maybe I will give Dennis a call and see how much the setup cost now adays.

I doubt PI will take the headers back as they already sold me a radiator I didn't need.  I should have done my research well ahead of time but that's another subject.

Thanks,
John

You can swing your suspension pretty easily by jacking up the rear, and removing the shocks & springs.  

Then you can move the suspension through the whole range to check for interference…

You may have to do that anyway if someone is fabbing up tubing…

Good luck.

Rocky

The cars suspension is super tight, to the point that it didn't sag when i installed the engine and tranny. I need to lower the car next, so probably a good time to check the travel.  My guess is there is a about an 8" gap between the top of rear tire and fender.  The car was on an AZ storage building for 35 years before I found it so I'm guessing the shocks are dried out and stuck in place.

Thanks for the advice.

John

It is my understanding that the Mufflers Dennis is currently selling are rather loud  

others will chime in with their opinions, but if cabin noise is not an issue, everything Dennis sells is quality

Larry

Dear John and Larry,

            My brother recently had Dennis Quella's stainless steel exhaust and mufflers added to his 427 ci Windsor stroker.  They are not quiet mufflers. Otherwise, they are high quality.

                     Warmest regards, Chuck Engles

Personally I would modify the mufflers you have to fit properly to the new headers. Should be rather simple

If you’re prepared to handle some fabrication …

https://pantera.infopop.cc/top...18#23851841506808318

Dennis' mufflers are beautiful and not loud and are far better than my previous Hall big bores with their "cherry bomb" glass pack sound and drone.  That said, Dennis' mufflers are just that - mufflers.   You need to fabricate pipes from the muffler to the header.   I do not believe he sells a complete exhaust system - you will have to ask him but he did not when I bought mine.  Here are mine installed.

Having a mid-pipe, between the header and muffler, makes removing the muffler much easier.

Apparently, Dennis sells a kit now.  I'm in the process of getting a quote.

They sell a separate collector for whatever size header you are running along with the exhaust tubes.  You basically make it fit then weld the collector end and probably the muffler end.  The mufflers come in angled and non-angled tips.

Thanks,

John

Mine are the angled tips.   Very high quality.   Fitting those pipes to avoid the half shafts was a real PITA.  There is very little clearance as you probably already have seen.  I used my Hall BigBore pipes and reused the header end and then fitted the muffle end with an adapter.  Had a good welding shop do them up.

Thats a good idea.  The driver's side clears fine on mine, but the passenger side definitely hits the CV axle.  I also thought one could use the oval shaped pipes to snake thru the mess but at that point you may as well have a shop fabricate a complete system.

Hopefully Dennis comes back with a reasonable quote and I can proceed.  Otherwise, I'm thinking of putting the Hall BigBore headers back on and just drive it for a while.  Project has been 13 months in the making and really itching to take it for a drive.

Thanks,

John

Compounding the problem is the fact that some aftermarket shock absorbers allow too much suspension travel. I put 1-1/4" Delrin spacers in my Koni's, along with the normal bump rubbers, to counteract that issue. Problem solved and the presence of the spacers is not detectable, from a ride standpoint.

@jwelch68 posted:

The driver's side clears fine on mine, but the passenger side definitely hits the CV axle.

You're using CV axles?

I have the Pantera Performance mufflers on my car.  They are well made.   I agree with Chuck and Larry, these are not quiet mufflers, or it least they are not on my car.   I am not sure how much the motor size, headers or exhaust pipe size can affect the volume so that could be a factor.  When I got these mufflers, I looked through the inlet and you can see right through them, so they aren’t restrictive.

I mis spoke.  I'm using the stock axles.

Thanks

John

Hi everyone,

I have a GTS exhaust in my car. The mufflers are straight through with wool surrounding  the pipes.

As soon as the car rolls in the open it is tolerable, but at idle between buildings it is really loud and has a nasty drone.

What are the most quiet mufflers currently available, that aren't hurting flow too much?

@jwelch68 posted:

I mis spoke.  I'm using the stock axles.

Thanks

John

Depending how they are mounted you can gain some extra clearance by reversing their orientation.

So, the axles can be swapped end to end and not cause any balance issues?  If so, I will check this out today and see if there are any gains.

Thanks!

John

here is a factory drawing showing axle orintation.   This was a MAJOR aurgument I hac with the ex-project manger.   He insisted the smaller splined shaft was lighter and thus SHOULD be as reversed (less sprung weight ?).   I weighed and the larger diameter HOLLOW tube end is same weight as smaller diameter solid shaft.   when second manger got to installing exhuast, he called to see if I would mind if they reversed them to the correct way!

As for BALANCE.   be sure the splines have the matching arrows in allign.  the phasing of the ujoints cause an jerk in rotation

Interesting as I never thought about axle orientation.  Mine have the fat ends in.  My ZF was rebuilt by Roy Butfoy and Lance Nist installed it all and I would never question their knowledge of the car.  

Yes, very interesting.  When I found the car in storage after sitting for 35 years it had the large ends towards the ZF, so I just put them back in the way I found them.  I will check this afternoon and see if this gives me the clearance I need.

Thanks!

John

You can fit a 3” exhaust pipe where the bigger part of the axle is closest to the wheel.

@GeorgS posted:

Hi everyone,

I have a GTS exhaust in my car. The mufflers are straight through with wool surrounding  the pipes.

As soon as the car rolls in the open it is tolerable, but at idle between buildings it is really loud and has a nasty drone.

What are the most quiet mufflers currently available, that aren't hurting flow too much?

Sorry to bother again, does anybody have a suggestion?

Hi GeorgS,

I have Wilkinson GTS muffler (diameter 2.5 in) and I am doing tests with Car Chemistry 3DI25R inserts inserted before the silencers. On my exhaust I can only put 2 discs (instead of 3 maxi). Without the inserts I had around 85 dB at idle and 90 dB at 3000 rpm, with the inserts (without the washers), I have around 77 dB at idle and 87 dB at 3000 rpmis a gain of about 3 dB and I did not feel any loss of power. The inserts are supplied with washers that can be welded onto the tubes to further reduce noise.

Here's real data on your inserts.  18 hp loss for marginal noise reduction.   The Wilkinson system was "supposedly" designed to remove the significant hp loss created by the original Ansa and Ansa GTS mufflers.   Gary Hall cut GTS cans open and removed all the guts which significantly increased the HP.  Not sure anyone ever cared about the noise levels from a Pantera as most posts here ask "how to make  my system louder".  

https://www.ffcars.com/threads...-db-difference.4850/

@panterapatt posted:

....   The Wilkinson system was "supposedly" designed to remove the significant hp loss created by the original Ansa and Ansa GTS mufflers.  ...

any other comment on the Wilkinson's?   I am actually on the quieter desire and not consern over HP.    the shop says they are "OK"

@GeorgS posted:

Sorry to bother again, does anybody have a suggestion?

What the Wilkinson or Pantera Performance mufflers will do for you is be a bit quieter and get rid of the dreaded drone. Unfortunately, it seems nothing bolts right on. Some fitting and fabrication is always required. Dennis’ mufflers require the mid-pipe to be fabricated and Wilkinson’s need to be modified to fit properly.