Front Hub Measurements

Need more info ? exactly what dimensions and for what are you trying to find out? wheel offset ? Brake rotors ? I did extensive research and fabrications to fit Wildwood brakes on the Pantera ....and ends up I;m still not happy ..but the dimensions I have to the thousand of an inch ..what are you looking for ... just the dimension from the dust cover to the backing plate ?

Talk to me ?

Ron

Ron,

I need the length of the front hub from the flat surface where the wheel meets the rotor (wheel studs sticking out), to the end of the dust cap. This measurement will ensure the center section of the wheel will come out further than the dustcap so that a center cap can cover the hole.

I also need the diameter across that hub at the base (where the it meets the mounting surface). This measurement is to ensure the wheel will ride on the hub (making the wheel 'hub centric'), and not on the wheel studs.

Thanks.

Michael

This second question is an important one isn't it, are all aftermarket wheels for the Pantera hub centric? This casts some doubt on my present wheel plans, I will go out and measure some to the best of my ability with the tools I have.

So I measured the hub outer diameter to be about 60mm - this is a difficult and disappointingly innacurate measurement. I'm sure someone knows exactly. There are spacers available to achieve hub-centric mounting as I have just found out. By chance you just alerted me to this necessity - I appreciate it.

I just made sentringrings for my new Centerline wheels (see Deauville section). They are 61,8 mm inside and 82,0 outside.

quote:

Originally posted by 72red:
This second question is an important one isn't it, are all aftermarket wheels for the Pantera hub centric? This casts some doubt on my present wheel plans, I will go out and measure some to the best of my ability with the tools I have.

red,

Wheels can either be 'hub centric', or 'lug centric'.

Wheels that are hub centric will have the center hole on the rim fit fairly tight, or snug around the hub. Not tight as in hard to get on and off, but tight as in precision fit. The load of the wheel is then borne by the hub.

Lug centric wheels will have the center hole on the rim larger than the hub. When you put this type of wheel on the car, it will move around a bit until you put the lug nuts on. The lugs and nuts are what keep the wheel centered and bear the load of the wheel.

A hub centric wheel will move a tiny bit too until you put a lug nut on, but only in a cirlce as it is already centered by the hub. A lug centric wheel will move up and down and all about within the confines of the bolt hole as it has not yet been centered by at least two lug nuts.

Accobra and I measured up a spare front hub that he has and this is what we came up with:
The diameter is 2.43" at the base.
The length is 2.25" to the end of the dust cap.
This information is consistent with measurements I got from 2 Pantera vendors as well.

My Kinesis wheel's center hole is 2.46". They didn't 'stick' coming off, so I'm not exactly sure if this wheel would be considered hub, or lug centric. If the wheels center hole is too tight around the hub, it may go on easily, but once dirt gets between the two and the wheel expands and contracts at a different rate than the hub, the wheel can 'stick', or even sieze onto the hub and need to be beaten off.

All wheel manufacturers make their wheels differently. I would suspect that they would make their center holes oversized to work with the most applications possible. Even if they did know the hub size for your application, it would be better to err on the side of caution and make them just a bit larger, rather than a bit smaller (where they might not go on). I for one don't want to be beating my very expensive wheels off with a rubber mallet!

Michael

Interesting post. I never knew the difference between hub and lug centric wheels. Mine are Hall aftermarket and are clearly lug centric.

But the lug nuts are extended and fit inside the wheel holes exactly - no play at all. They go thru the wheel and tighten down on the long extended studs. There are centering rings on each lug nut.

I have always used white grease on the back of the wheel where it mounts to the hub so it won't stick.

quote:

Originally posted by David B:
But the lug nuts are extended and fit inside the wheel holes exactly - no play at all. They go thru the wheel and tighten down on the long extended studs. There are centering rings on each lug nut.

David,

That type of lugnut is called 'conical'. It's end that contacts the wheel is cone shaped and self centers in the funnel shaped seat in the wheel. It's like a flare fitting for a hose where there is a male shaped cone and a female shaped funnel that mate together. In the case of the hose, it's for sealing, and in the case of the wheels, it's for centering.

Another type of lug nut is the 'shank' type. It is flat underneath the head and uses a big washer between the head and wheel. A wheel that uses a shank type of lug nut must be hub centric because this type of lug nut passes through the wheel and only secures the wheel to the car. I had a set of Centerline wheels that used shank lug nuts.

Conical lug nuts have been the norm for a very long time now and are what Car manufacturers have been using on cars for decades.

Michael

David ..exactly ..years ago the old Centerlines had oversized holes for the lugs and long sleeves on the lugs to extend thru the wheel to make the wheel concentric with the hub.

I have heard of a bunch of cases where the Pantera wheels where stuck on the car ... probably has to do with tight tolerance of the wheel center and hub. BUT tapered lug nuts and close tolerances shouldnt make this an issue ?

Ron

Well from what you say, then my wheels use shank lugs - long tubes that extend thru the wheel to catch the long studs. There is no play inside the wheel and the flat head secures the wheel with big washers. But as soon as they are loosened the wheel falls right off the hub. There is nothing holding it but the lug nuts.

My problem is getting the 5th lug to catch its stud. Four is no problem. It takes a lot of playing around and rotating the wheel while I do it. Either some shop put the wheels on and didn't torque them down until I discovered it miles later, or else I stretched a stud.

Being off 1/32" and having no play in the wheel is a mother. This is on the front wheels only.

Just a follow-up for this thread, I have found many aftermarket hub-centric spacer rings and have ordered some for the wheels which I am also ordering which have a 73mm center bore. The available aftermarket rings have an inner diameter of 63mm, I have not been able to find any with an i.d. of 62mm or I would have bought those. The outfit I am ordering my wheels from claims that a hub centric wheel does center the wheel but that the lugs are what hold it in place - ie the wheel isn't actually riding on the centering hub/ring anyway it just helps to center the wheel while you are locking it in place with the lugs - this makes sense to me - if the wheel actually rode on the hub it would have to be a tight fit - while it is in fact fairly tight with the original Campys in the rear on my Pantera it is not particularly tight in front, nor is it tight on my Porsche wheels (on my Porsche of course not the Pantera) which are OEM and hub-centric. I have also been told that the plastic rings hold up better than the aluminum rings and are less likely to bind to the hub or wheel, both of which could be a problem. Hope this helps someone, it is all new info to me.