Im looking for input on milling the side of the ball joint for more caster. Is it worth it for a street car ? How much can you safely mill off ?
Thanks, Mike
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Mike,
A friend of mine milled all he could of the side of his ball joint about an 1/8th" (3mm) to cain caster, but it was not enough to make any difference.
On my car I extensively reworked the top arm to move the ball joint back 3/4" (19mm) This made a big difference. My car used to dart around at high speed and had very little self centring. Now it feels stable at high speed, and has good self centring. While I was at it, I welded a piece of metal behind the ball joint, then drilled and tapped it to except an 8mm bolt with lock nut. If you look closely at the picture, you can just see it touching the back of the ball joint. This locks the camber.
I have never had a caster gauge on the car, so I can't tell you exactly how much I have gained, but certainly drives a lot better.
If you look at my website, there are pictures of the A arm before and after. http://www.woodsautomotive.co.uk/myrestortaion.htm
In case anyone is wondering, yes my brake pipe was rubbing the wheel! But only on full lock. I have since fixed it.
Johnny
A friend of mine milled all he could of the side of his ball joint about an 1/8th" (3mm) to cain caster, but it was not enough to make any difference.
On my car I extensively reworked the top arm to move the ball joint back 3/4" (19mm) This made a big difference. My car used to dart around at high speed and had very little self centring. Now it feels stable at high speed, and has good self centring. While I was at it, I welded a piece of metal behind the ball joint, then drilled and tapped it to except an 8mm bolt with lock nut. If you look closely at the picture, you can just see it touching the back of the ball joint. This locks the camber.
I have never had a caster gauge on the car, so I can't tell you exactly how much I have gained, but certainly drives a lot better.
If you look at my website, there are pictures of the A arm before and after. http://www.woodsautomotive.co.uk/myrestortaion.htm
In case anyone is wondering, yes my brake pipe was rubbing the wheel! But only on full lock. I have since fixed it.
Johnny
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Johnny
Great pic ! You say your car darted at high speed....@ what speed ? I have held my car at only an even 100...so far. It was steady at that speed. Im going thru all the suspension right now and was thinking maybe milling the ball joint would be a good thing........
Great pic ! You say your car darted at high speed....@ what speed ? I have held my car at only an even 100...so far. It was steady at that speed. Im going thru all the suspension right now and was thinking maybe milling the ball joint would be a good thing........
Johnny,
May I ask what rotor/hat combo you are using, and the disc size?
thank you, Ron
May I ask what rotor/hat combo you are using, and the disc size?
thank you, Ron
Mike,
My car would dart around on any road that was not perfectly smooth. 100MPH was not to bad, but 120 did not feel safe. I often see 6000RPM in 5th gear (on smooth roads), so it was important to me that it was stable. If you do not intend to drive more than 100MPH, then it may not be worth you going to all the effort to have your top arm reworked.
Ron,
My brakes are wilwood. I bough them from Dennis Quala (Pantera Performance) The front rotor is 310mm (12.1/4") x 32mm thick. I think this is about as big as I can fit inside a 16" wheel. The calliper is a 6 piston billet. Dennis told me he developed this kit to fit inside a 15" wheel. But it does not fit. I tried my old 15 x 8 Campy on there, and it hit the calliper. He must mean it fits with a 4 piston calliper?
I feel the 6 piston calliper is unnecessary. 4 piston would work fine. I did it for reasons of fashion.
I have not done anything to my rear brakes yet. But I do have the original vented rear rotor back there. My car came from the factory with vented rotors.
Just doing the front has transformed the car. It now has fantastic brakes. It has totally changed the way I feel about driving the car. So much more fun to drive with powerful brakes. But I don't think I any safer, now I go into a situation knowing I can stop. Before I would go into a situation with caution, knowing I couldn't stop!
Here is what it all weighs:
Original iron calliper with pads = 13lb
Original solid front rotor = 15.5lb
Original vented front rotor = 10.5lb
Wilwood 6 piston billet calliper with pads = 8lb
Wilwood 310mm rotor with ally hat = 14lb
I still have not decided what to do with the rear, the car stops so well now, I am not in any great hurry.
Johnny
My car would dart around on any road that was not perfectly smooth. 100MPH was not to bad, but 120 did not feel safe. I often see 6000RPM in 5th gear (on smooth roads), so it was important to me that it was stable. If you do not intend to drive more than 100MPH, then it may not be worth you going to all the effort to have your top arm reworked.
Ron,
My brakes are wilwood. I bough them from Dennis Quala (Pantera Performance) The front rotor is 310mm (12.1/4") x 32mm thick. I think this is about as big as I can fit inside a 16" wheel. The calliper is a 6 piston billet. Dennis told me he developed this kit to fit inside a 15" wheel. But it does not fit. I tried my old 15 x 8 Campy on there, and it hit the calliper. He must mean it fits with a 4 piston calliper?
I feel the 6 piston calliper is unnecessary. 4 piston would work fine. I did it for reasons of fashion.
I have not done anything to my rear brakes yet. But I do have the original vented rear rotor back there. My car came from the factory with vented rotors.
Just doing the front has transformed the car. It now has fantastic brakes. It has totally changed the way I feel about driving the car. So much more fun to drive with powerful brakes. But I don't think I any safer, now I go into a situation knowing I can stop. Before I would go into a situation with caution, knowing I couldn't stop!
Here is what it all weighs:
Original iron calliper with pads = 13lb
Original solid front rotor = 15.5lb
Original vented front rotor = 10.5lb
Wilwood 6 piston billet calliper with pads = 8lb
Wilwood 310mm rotor with ally hat = 14lb
I still have not decided what to do with the rear, the car stops so well now, I am not in any great hurry.
Johnny
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Congrats Johnny on the cover story of your car on the Classic Car Magazine. When a friend gave me the mag because of your Pantera, I told him about the PIBB and how you did some of the things when restoring your car. Your car is still my favorite color for a Pantera. Vince
Hi Vince,
Thank you for that! I was very pleased with the article. Tony Dron, who wrote the feature, and test drove my car is an ex Le mans driver. He was telling me what it was like to drive on the mulsanne straight before they put the chicane in. He said of his group C Porsche "230MPH is scary at first, then you used to it!"
My Pantera was not the cover car on the English edition of the mag, only the American addition. Apparently they change the cover car to suit the different markets. Other than that, that mag is identical.
Johnny
Thank you for that! I was very pleased with the article. Tony Dron, who wrote the feature, and test drove my car is an ex Le mans driver. He was telling me what it was like to drive on the mulsanne straight before they put the chicane in. He said of his group C Porsche "230MPH is scary at first, then you used to it!"
My Pantera was not the cover car on the English edition of the mag, only the American addition. Apparently they change the cover car to suit the different markets. Other than that, that mag is identical.
Johnny