Harmonic Balancer starting to deteriorate?

Probably one of the aftermarket race balancers like Romac is your best bet for new.

This engine LOVES a heavy balancer. That's what you really want for any kind of spirited driving with it IMO anyway.

I was fortunate enough to have gotten two of the D2ZX HO balancers for $125 each. The D1ZX, which is the 71 Boss 351 balancer is just plain expensive to get if you can find one. There weren't many 72 HO's made either. Both of mine were over the counter Ford service parts. Engineering wise the Boss and HO are the same.

I do not think I am imagining things when I tell you that you can feel the difference the big balancer makes. It's almost like it takes duration out of the cam because it quiets some of the vibration the big cam makes.

I personally think that you should not rev this engine over about 6,000 rpm with the stock 4v balancer.

The 4v balancer IS NOT the one you want. It is better than the 2v and good for your 72 Ford Country Squire station wagon. That's about it.

There is a lot of discussion of balancers needing rebuilds as of late. Look at how old they are now?

You can have yours rebuilt though. That would be a good alternative.

Search the web. There are a few dependable rebuilders advertising out there.

As an FYI, I had two balancers rebuilt. Neither lasted very long. Based on my experience, buy a new damper when in need.

Doug, What Romac ballencer have you used? Is it the red series, steel, c/w external balance or the nutral balance?

quote:

Originally posted by Joe A:
Doug, What Romac ballencer have you used? Is it the red series, steel, c/w external balance or the nutral balance?

I haven't. I have only used the Ford D2ZX '72 HO balancers.

Those would be my recommendation to you but I don't know where you could find one.

There was just a '71 Boss 351 balancer on Ebay for $700. That obviously isn't the way to go.

These things are heavy!


One of the things engine builders recommend if you are going to go over 7,000 rpm continuously is to go with internal balance.

One of the reasons is it makes it easier to work on a "race" engine where you need to change internal parts a lot.

On a primarily street used engine, you want to use an external balance.

The "Boss"engines have a slightly different balance weight which is reflected in the balancer. I don't remember the exact difference between the 4v and the Boss but it is something like 28.2 oz vs 28.4 oz.

The Boss uses different rod bolts and nuts. That probably is what the difference is.

In my experience though, you can just bolt on the Boss balancer with no reprecussions and no rebalancing of the engine. Your mileage may vary?

quote:

D2ZX HO balancers

Doug - can you post up a picture? I'd love to see one. Thanks -

Rocky

My stock balancer was (and still is) in decent shape, but I did not want to play the "wait until it breaks" game then buy the nearest thing that bolts on in a panic. This did permit me to do the hunt and wait game. I must have stalked EBay for the better part of a year before I scored a new-in-box $300 Romac for less than $100. My opinion of the Romac to date, excellent? Well worth the full price.

No not necessarily, it could be your carburetor,I think it could be your Idell air /fuel screws, or a out of adjusted choke. check that first.

quote:

Originally posted by mooso:
On cold start-up, my engine idles smoothly. After driving, it feels definately rougher at idle. Is this a sign that the balancer is starting to go? It is the original balancer on a stock, unrebuilt motor.
If so, what is a good replacement balancer. I drive briskly on mountain roads, but will probably never race the car on a track...at least not seriously.

Thanks, Mooso.

Sure.

another

George has some good pictures of the Boss/HO balancer posted in his Facebook Engine pictures also.


@ JTPantera. A lot of the Cobra balancers needed to get sent out for rebuild. I have heard of none of them failing after the rebuild.
You want to rebuild before it fails...the balance ring tends to slip on the hub and can be off 30 degrees.



This is a good shot of the Boss/HO balancer installed. You can see how thick it is compared to everything else. Even the Romac isn't this thick and heavy



Incidentally, this is the aluminum '68 Ford Cleveland "Indy" block that I mentioned in the discussion about the pressed in lifter bushings. It was repaired in the lifter gallery. I do have a picture of that (somewhere...everything is somewhere? ) . It appears that the lifter bushings came loose and wiped that portion of the block out.

That's a really good modification but just like taking a prescribed medication, there can be possible side effects and there are real risks involved. Doesn't matter how small. The risks are still there. Someone does win the lottery you know? One needs to balance their own risks and position themselves as best they can?

The welding in there is extensive. The block really is now best used as a display. Too bad. Not many were made and even fewer have survived being grenaded by the big time Pro Sock racers back in the day?

Apparently Ford GAVE guys like Nicholson and Gapp&Rousch aluminum blocks to "test". I guess they figured if they survived those guys, they were ready for production...and that never happened. Still haven't seen the matching aluminum heads for this block.

Those heads in the picture are the B351 Motorsport heads from about 1985.

Picture is from Jeff Burgy. Engine was for sale this time last year.

That baby's a monster! Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by Rocky:
That baby's a monster! Thanks!

Like I said, the 4v balancer is a wimp by comparison and only really good for about 6,000 rpm. See the redline on your tach at 5,900 rpm's?

Continuously spinning the engine over that with the 4v balancer will add to rate of demise for it...and the bottom end internally of the engine too.

The Romac will do everything that you want. I just like everything saying Ford on my engine. Kinda' a "give credit where credit is due" thing for me? I'm strange. I know. Don't say it.

I've forgotten what it actually weighs, but yes, it's hefty for sure.

your description doe's not sound like a harmonic balancer failure.If it was it would idle "rough" all the time.

quote:

Originally posted by mooso:
On cold start-up, my engine idles smoothly. After driving, it feels definately rougher at idle. Is this a sign that the balancer is starting to go? It is the original balancer on a stock, unrebuilt motor.
If so, what is a good replacement balancer. I drive briskly on mountain roads, but will probably never race the car on a track...at least not seriously.

Thanks, Mooso.

Can the old damper be removed and the new one installed while the engine is in the car? Easy? Any recommendation on the aftermarket unit? Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Robbie:
Can the old damper be removed and the new one installed while the engine is in the car? Easy? Any recommendation on the aftermarket unit? Thanks.

Yes, easy and it is fairly simple to do.

quote:

Originally posted by Robbie:

... Any recommendation on the aftermarket unit? ...

Romac #0203

That, and much more info, is available in sticky #3 of the this forum

What's a good price for a restorable D1ZX-AA balancer in good restorable condition? anyone have experience dealing with Damper Doctor?

quote:

Originally posted by LTP:
What's a good price for a restorable D1ZX-AA balancer in good restorable condition? anyone have experience dealing with Damper Doctor?

A good price for buying or selling?

buying

You won't get a good price on that one. It's a 71 Boss 351. It will cost you about 850, maybe more, if you can find one for sale at all.

Look for a D2ZX-AA. That's a 72 HO and the Service part. It's rare but not worth as much. Probably $350-400.

One comes up every few years but you would be better off buying a Romac as George suggested.

I was just in the right place at the right time to find mine. I had two and they both cost me $125.

Thanks for the guidance. I managed to secure this Gem for a very good price. It seems to be in really good shape. Rubber is not brittle or cracking. Now I don't know whether to trade it for other 351C treasure or send it out for refurbishment. Anyone use Damper Doctor in Redding, CA or have other suggestions?

If you have a Boss 351 damper it is fully bonded from the factory. It should not spin on the hub or walk-off the hub like the other factory dampers. If it shows signs of doing this, the bonding is compromised. The hub is made of nodular iron, the outer ring is made of standard iron. Since the hub is made of nodular iron, the damper bolt was rated by Ford for additional torque.

I wouldn't ruin such a damper by taking it to damper dudes. If you don't trust the damper it would be better to install a Romac damper, which is made of steel, equally "beefy" and also fully bonded.

Outwardly it looks really good for a part minus a car . Surface rust on machined surfaces but no pitting. No cracking brittleness of the rubber. No attachment to part other than BOSS coolness. Will post this one on the parts for sale or swap for other Cleveland treasures

quote:

Originally posted by George p:

I wouldn't ruin such a damper by taking it to damper dudes. If you don't trust the damper it would be better to install a Romac damper, which is made of steel, equally "beefy" and also fully bonded.

In the Romac instructions it says that their dampers are not bonded ?

quote:

Originally posted by LTP:
Outwardly it looks really good for a part minus a car . Surface rust on machined surfaces but no pitting. No cracking brittleness of the rubber. No attachment to part other than BOSS coolness. Will post this one on the parts for sale or swap for other Cleveland treasures

Post a picture.

quote:

Originally posted by Aus Ford:

In the Romac instructions it says that their dampers are not bonded ?

You are asking me to remember what I based this recommendation upon more than a decade ago. I'm old, my memory is not that good. It is a surprise to me that you write the dampers are not bonded. I can't believe I would have recommended a damper that wasn't fully bonded. There's a Romac damper on my Pantera's engine for gosh sakes. Ford Racing used to sell Romac dampers, they may still. I'll put researching this on my list of things to do. But I have much more important projects going on.

What Romac part number are you referring to?

In the mean time, if somebody is shopping for a damper, and you are in doubt of the Romac damper, I still have two good choices for you, although more expensive than the Romac damper:

(1) BHJ Dynamics damper #FO-EB351C-7
(2) ATI damper #918900

I bought a 0203 damper and to my surprise the instructions said they did not bond their dampers.

Maybe they did in the past ?

It may still be a good damper.

I looked it up on their website and there was the same instruction sheet that was with the damper I bought.

Not trying to say you are wrong George they just might have changed the products.

Lyle I welcome the information. No problem mate.

Manufacturers do change things. That may be the case. I have an older damper in my storage unit, but I live in a condo now, the storage unit is about 4 miles away. I can't just run out to the garage and check it out like I did in the old days.

I apologize to everyone. If I ever "sound" frustrated, it's because it is hard for me to accept my failing memory. I'm also frustrated by the lack of time I have to do the things I'd like to do, which is helping all of you. I'm also overwhelmed the amount of things I'm obligated to accomplish.

I'm getting old, forgetful and slow. Time for another scotch on the rocks.

quote:

Originally posted by George P:
Lyle I welcome the information. No problem mate.

Manufacturers do change things. That may be the case. I have an older damper in my storage unit, but I live in a condo now, the storage unit is about 4 miles away. I can't just run out to the garage and check it out like I did in the old days.

I apologize to everyone. If I ever "sound" frustrated, it's because it is hard for me to accept my failing memory. I'm also frustrated by the lack of time I have to do the things I'd like to do, which is helping all of you. I'm also overwhelmed the amount of things I'm obligated to accomplish.

I'm getting old, forgetful and slow. Time for another scotch on the rocks.

I write a list so I don't forget, but don't loose the list like I do?

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:

quote:

Originally posted by LTP:
Outwardly it looks really good for a part minus a car . Surface rust on machined surfaces but no pitting. No cracking brittleness of the rubber. No attachment to part other than BOSS coolness. Will post this one on the parts for sale or swap for other Cleveland treasures

Post a picture.

having problems as photo I'm trying to attach exceeds the max space by 10X
email me your contact info
monty_pritchard@kindermorgan.com

quote:

having problems as photo I'm trying to attach exceeds the max space by 10X

1. Download Irfanview
http://www.irfanview.com/main_download_engl.htm
2. Open the photo with it
3. Resize/Resample to 640x480 and "Save As" at 95% with a new name such as "original-name_640x480.jpg"

This should get the image size down within the limits with about a minute or two of effort.

Thank you for the help with the image.
Here is a picture of my D1ZX 6316 AA balancer and D1ZE 6312 AA single groove pulley that goes with it.
Offers/trades welcome.
George you said don't use Damper Doctor- Why?
I just want to get the machined surfaces cleaned up and restored.

Have it sandblasted and paint it black.

Put a stainless restoration sleeve on it and you are done.

Too simple! You just saved me $150 less the $10 sleeve.

quote:

Originally posted by LTP:
Too simple! You just saved me $150 less the $10 sleeve.

I can be such an SOB?