Hello,
I want to apply the Ornament, external fuel filler with my 72. It seems that stocks are rare. Does anyone have an idea where to source the part #09038A please?
Additionally, any advice for doing the conversion is appreciated. Thanks
Frank
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LeMans850 did this on his car if I understand your question…. He should pop up soon with a link to his build thread that describes the work he did…
I found the thread Rocky thanks. However he did something completely new on his own. I just want to apply the later model external fuel filler with all original parts. Hope that’s possible as it seems.
I thought one of the challenges was the lack of the "bucket" to mount the filler mouth underneath the gill. That would require some fabrication.
I'm not fully aware of the challenges, as I have an "L" Model, with the stock assembly.
Good luck - keep us posted!
Rocky
They are an extremely rare find now, you can try calling the Pantera vendors and see if they have any used parts, I'd also reach out to Mike Mayberry, it's surprising what he has, but expect to pay close to $1,000 for it, if you can find one. Otherwise it's keep scouring all the forums and FB marketplace and hope one comes up at some point.
I think I have a the 37A lid piece somewhere as I converted to an aero style cap. That maybe another way to go, just cut a hole in your existing gill and mount an aero cap. You'll also need to cut the holes through the rear panel for the hose.
I did see that mounting can #41 out on eBay a few weeks ago. It was listed at $550.
@haydude posted:I did see that mounting can #41 out on eBay a few weeks ago. It was listed at $550.
They were never cheap. I got mine from Wilkinson about 20 years ago and the bucket was something like $125 then.
Its purpose really is to provide a mounting for the twist cap.
As suggested, if you go to an an external cap mounted to the gills then the internal connection is a matter of swinging the adapter on the tank now to point at the gill mounted location, cutting a hole for the hose with a hole saw and finding a fuel hose to fit and clamp them.
I get the part that there is a desire to stay with factory parts on the Pantera but so far to this day, there is not a large contingent of "original 'Concourse' Pantera" owners but more importantly, a big market value for those cars.
That could change but after 50 years there is no noticeable division in Pantera buyers and sellers over those details.
Thanks all for the reply. I take with me: if I find the parts it’s fairly doable.
I did go through the motions about what kind of fuel filler to build, and I wanted to get this project done within a few months… Most parts are unobtainable or were extremely expensive and building would be definitely required to weld the bucket in… My paint is perfect in that area so I did not want to go down that route…
One thing I can tell you is that the grill panel for fuel filler cap doors are different than the grill panel without fuel filler door…
Fuel filler door panels have less ribs on them so you cannot cut a hole in your non-fuel door the panel and put the door on it! It does not match the ribs. And at the same time, left and right would not match then because you have less ribs on one side then on the right side.
12 ribs
14 ribs
(most people probably wouldn’t even notice, but it would bug the shit out of me)
The left engine up cover panel inside has to be modified as well… Quite different cut out and “shroud” welded it on..
minor details… Big impact!
I think the aviation fuel filler caps, sold with the fill neck are the easiest way to move the filling part to the outside of the car.. PI Motorsports sells them too.. but it just was not the style I was going for.
I guess you saw this thread of mine
@FWJ what you are looking for.. scroll all the way down
https://www.patsauto.com/pantera-custom.html
seems they modify your original panel… no normal person would know the difference… (what does that say about me…)
Thanks for the link. This seems to be a decent alternative modifying the existing, Looks good and I will investigate further.
However since I know now the 12 versus the 14 rips, that kills me mentally as well …
@FWJ posted:Thanks for the link. This seems to be a decent alternative modifying the existing, Looks good and I will investigate further.
However since I know now the 12 versus the 14 rips, that kills me mentally as well …
Welcome to my world 
I used to be “normal”…
But as I said …the normal people wouldn’t know.
@LeMans850i posted:Welcome to my world
I used to be “normal”…
But as I said …the normal people wouldn’t know.
Normal is so boring. It even seems to be insulting at times!
Creativity is border line to completely nutz. It keeps normal people at bay and keeps them from bothering you. Peasants.
God is in the details - not the devil!
@panteradoug I think you and a few others know all the crap I did and still doing on my car.. And interesting enough every day I learn more and more and it amazed the shit out of me… You know, when I was working on airplanes and you have to pay attention to every minute detail and that stuck with me… so funny… I can make a mess, work in it and it doesn’t bug me, but if the bolts are not lined up correctly, and the washers are not the right side up - you know the round edge facing outwards and the sharper towards the material… oh my… that the right side of my car is almost 1/2” shorter than the left side… That just amuse me 🤗 but who, on God’s earth would measure that stuff… me 😓 just walked by and something didn’t look right… HOW…??
@FWJ and there are a few devils in details! Just a recent endeavor of mine..
There are some threaded holes on the backside of the transmission (where the cast steel plate Bolts on ) that are open to the transmission… so, if one of those studs breaks off and you try to get it out… You start drilling it with a small pilot drill and then next drill up and suddenly the drill catches and drilled (screwed) the leftover stud (about 1/2” long ) all the way into the transmission and falls in.. There is a devil in the detail…. And some operator error as well… but now… I know how it looks inside there…
@LeMans850i posted:@panteradoug I think you and a few others know all the crap I did and still doing on my car.. And interesting enough every day I learn more and more and it amazed the shit out of me… You know, when I was working on airplanes and you have to pay attention to every minute detail and that stuck with me… so funny… I can make a mess, work in it and it doesn’t bug me, but if the bolts are not lined up correctly, and the washers are not the right side up - you know the round edge facing outwards and the sharper towards the material… oh my… that the right side of my car is almost 1/2” shorter than the right side… That just amuse me 🤗 but who, on God’s earth would measure that stuff… me 😓 just walked by and something didn’t look right… HOW…??
@FWJ and there are a few devils in details! Just a recent endeavor of mine..
There are some threaded holes on the backside of the transmission (where the cast steel plate Bolts on ) that are open to the transmission… so, if one of those studs breaks off and you try to get it out… You start drilling it with a small pilot drill and then next drill up and suddenly the drill catches and drilled (screwed) the leftover stud (about 1/2” long ) all the way into the transmission and falls in.. There is a devil in the detail…. And some operator error as well… but now… I know how it looks inside there…
I don't define that as crazy. It is just too sane for normal people to comprehend.
@LeMans850i posted:@panteradoug I think you and a few others know all the crap I did and still doing on my car.. And interesting enough every day I learn more and more and it amazed the shit out of me… You know, when I was working on airplanes and you have to pay attention to every minute detail and that stuck with me… so funny… I can make a mess, work in it and it doesn’t bug me, but if the bolts are not lined up correctly, and the washers are not the right side up - you know the round edge facing outwards and the sharper towards the material… oh my… that the right side of my car is almost 1/2” shorter than the left side… That just amuse me 🤗 but who, on God’s earth would measure that stuff… me 😓 just walked by and something didn’t look right… HOW…??
@FWJ and there are a few devils in details! Just a recent endeavor of mine..
There are some threaded holes on the backside of the transmission (where the cast steel plate Bolts on ) that are open to the transmission… so, if one of those studs breaks off and you try to get it out… You start drilling it with a small pilot drill and then next drill up and suddenly the drill catches and drilled (screwed) the leftover stud (about 1/2” long ) all the way into the transmission and falls in.. There is a devil in the detail…. And some operator error as well… but now… I know how it looks inside there…
😂😂😂
One owner solved the problem of no external fuel filler in the early left gill by carefully hinging the entire gill rather than jumping thru hoops to cut a door in it with all the stock non-existent parts. So his left side gill has no door as was stock for his '71, but hinges up and out of the way of gas station nozzles.
Also note that adding an external fuel system requires a different left side engine cover to go around the fuel pipe. This is not shown in the 'external fuel filling assembly' drawing. Cutting a clearance hole in an early cover exposes most of the big fuel connector while the late one is flared up and around the pipe.
And for unknown reasons, the factory-delivered fuel adapter (p/n 36) that bolts to the body is incorrectly made to align with the tank. The big fuel connector hose is strained in two planes in order to fit, so whatever you build will likely have better than stock alignment and be easier to connect up.
Be sure to use fuel-proof hose, not radiator hose, which will crack within a year from gasoline fumes and deliver gas fumes inside your car.
Boss any links to or pics of the hinged gill panel? I am intrigued
I think Tajon meant the modified panel that had an early gill fully hinged!
A VERY interesting design. Perhaps my new projects?
People need to stop posting this stuff. I will never get done here if you don't! PLEASE stop!
Besides the design, interesting thought with the two tanks in place. This helps a lot to balance the weight of 85kg from the left to the right side of the chassis. I like that.
I don't run dual fuel tanks (maybe some day...) but some decades ago I redid the whole cooling system near the engine. I ran a 2" pipe up from a big welded aluminum surge tank sitting on the right rocker panel up to the right gill, with a rad cap on the end. The stock overflow tank is now a small plastic windshield washer tank, with a 'super-trick racing catch-can' (a 16oz Budweiser can).
Because I didn't want to cut up my original right side die-cast gill if the idea was a failure, I made a silicone mold of it, reproduced a left gill in epoxy/fiberglas and cut that one up. I did have to fabricate a hinge by copying my left side stocker as a mirror image. All this was successful after some tweeking.
So my radiator cap is now under a stock-looking matching access door in the right gill, along with a custom length dipstick up from the oil pan. Good for my aged back- the decklid does not need to be opened to quickly check oil or coolant levels, or add coolant. Without the 2 stock tanks and the A/C lines, (now front- mounted), there's much more space around #4 spark plug and the decklid shocks, and the car Iost another 14 lbs of rear end wt.
Once again-- all of the mods I've done to Judy's long-suffering Pantera L have been written up in various illustrated POCA Newsletters over the last 30 years, and all are in the searchable POCA Archives for viewing or download. Don't ask exactly which ones- my memory is pretty good but not THAT good!
In GT class of racing, two separate fuel tanks is not that important . You can balance the car other ways with ballast.
It is more about access to fueling in long endurance races in the pit stops.
On the Group 4 race cars I honestly thought that the passenger side "filler cap in the gills" was to access the cooling system.
The Panteras are not GT40's and you really can't make one into one. Don't try to.
I can appreciate the thought of not wanting to cut up the original gills. I hated the gas filler neck under the deck lid and moved it to the left side like the later cars.
I do remember that article you wrote Jack. Now that you remind me. At one point I was thinking what I could mold the gills out of?
When I got all the factory parts to do the swap, they were still available new and I got the trap door hinged gills with the package. As it turns out, I hated the rinky dinkness of it and installed a pop-open filler from a 427 Cobra Comp car instead and polished it.
In order to accomplish this I used a 4 or 5" hole saw and just bored through the original gill. All these years later, that filler still sits there and the trap door gill got sold off years ago. As a matter of fact, I think the gill itsell got sold for $500 and there was a lot of grumbling about the price. It was still cheaper then buying from the vendors though.
The gills are very soft cast aluminum and very easy to bore out with a hole saw.
Another car with a hinged left gill belonged to ex=racer Guy Trigaux of N.Carolina but I haven't heard from him in a decade.
Thank you
@bosswrench posted:Another car with a hinged left gill belonged to ex=racer Guy Trigaux of N.Carolina but I haven't heard from him in a decade.
Guy passed away a few months ago.
Ron
@rmccall posted:Guy passed away a few months ago.
Ron
I found this in a Google search.
Damn, Ron- another gentleman bites the dust! Sorry to hear it- Guy was the principal speaker at a POCA Fun Rally a long time ago. He had some stories of the old days.
Any details on his passing?
Just wanted to confirm that via the forum here I have received a used gill for my purpose. The remaining inner parts have been available via the shops so everything settled for this purpose. Thanks for your active support and advice.
Best
Frank
