header insulator

If by "heat insulator material", you mean some type of header wrapping, be aware that those wrappings will cool your engine bay while vastly inctreasing your header tube temps, to the point where the steel in the tubes will oxidize, flake off and untimately burn through. A secondary problem is the physical expansion of the steel tubing under the 1600+ F degrees it will see- cracks and broken welds may occur. Finally, even if done correctly, it looks like an military battle-dressing done under fire- not very neat! I suggest checking with Jet-Hot Coating Corp. This ceramic coating is done INSIDE and OUT, which smooths the innards of your pipes for a reported power gain while protecting the steel from oxidation, and can be had in a variety of colors including almost-chrome. It is a 3-day turn-around, is not enormously expensive and its guaranteed!

Conventional Wisdom confirms exactly what Jack says... your headers tend to self destruct underneath the header wrap.

As for Albany, NY, there are no Pantera vendors there that I know of. Bob Reid, the POCA treasurer lives there, but not much else of Pantera fame. Probably the nearest vendor to NY would be Mass...

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Charlie McCall
1985 DeTomaso Pantera GT5-S #9375
"Raising Pantera Awareness across Europe"
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/gt5s_1985

I'd like to get my ANSA exhaust system refinished in Aluminum color. Does Jet-Hot Coatings Corp do that too? What do you think it might cost ball park? Do you have an address for Jet_Hot Coatings Corp? Is there a better way or another to accomplish this-refinishing (painting) the 'mufflers' that won't flake off? Does powder coating work well? Thanks.

I had this done on what appears to be ANSA mufflers. I left the chrome tips as is. It cost me $179 for the headers. Their number is 1-800-432-3379. You need to contact them first so they can get you a quote, assign a customer number and then they'll tell you where to send them. They have several shops in the country, one in Miss. and one I believe in NM. I had this done on my Vette, with side exhaust, and was quite pleased. By the way, intakes run about $130 to do.

quote:

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Originally posted by ron norman:
I'd like to get my ANSA exhaust system refinished in Aluminum color. Does Jet-Hot Coatings Corp do that too? What do you think it might cost ball park? Do you have an address for Jet_Hot Coatings Corp? Is there a better way or another to accomplish this-refinishing (painting) the 'mufflers' that won't flake off? Does powder coating work well? Thanks.

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A Corvette Guy was completely confident that a special paint at about $40 a quart was good to restore the headers on his '65 covertible. I'm gonna wait and see what his headers look like & if I don't get insight from you guys I will report back in a few months. We drive our cars to the office on Fridays if the weather is good. (It's good to keep the bearing seals wet with fluids, I think, and only puts 800 +/- miles on per year.) So I should know in a few months. Headers gotta run hotter than mufflers, by at least a few 100 degrees, given that headers don't get the same air flow cooling as the exposed ANSA mufflers, poximity to the engine block, etc., right? So, if his headers don't flake, the ANSA's won't flake, I'm thinking. I was looking at some Group IV's (just on the 'net) and thought those ANSA's looked like Stainless Steel, are they? I was looking at my '73, hoping they were S.S. so I could just polish off the paint, but they don't appear to be S.S. I thought about chrome, but the Kawasaki Ninja motor cycles and Harley Davidson motorcycles with chromed exhausts seem to discolor.... Jet Hot seems to be a reliable way to go, but I wonder if there are alternatives, I don't want to keep the BEAST locked up while it's vocal chords are shipped off!!!!

If you decide to Jet Hot the headers, you'll find the turnaround time is pretty good. I'm thinking from shipment to return for mine was a week to 10 days.

quote:

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Originally posted by ron norman:
A Corvette Guy was completely confident that a special paint at about $40 a quart was good to restore the headers on his '65 covertible. I'm gonna wait and see what his headers look like & if I don't get insight from you guys I will report back in a few months. We drive our cars to the office on Fridays if the weather is good. (It's good to keep the bearing seals wet with fluids, I think, and only puts 800 +/- miles on per year.) So I should know in a few months. Headers gotta run hotter than mufflers, by at least a few 100 degrees, given that headers don't get the same air flow cooling as the exposed ANSA mufflers, poximity to the engine block, etc., right? So, if his headers don't flake, the ANSA's won't flake, I'm thinking. I was looking at some Group IV's (just on the 'net) and thought those ANSA's looked like Stainless Steel, are they? I was looking at my '73, hoping they were S.S. so I could just polish off the paint, but they don't appear to be S.S. I thought about chrome, but the Kawasaki Ninja motor cycles and Harley Davidson motorcycles with chromed exhausts seem to discolor.... Jet Hot seems to be a reliable way to go, but I wonder if there are alternatives, I don't want to keep the BEAST locked up while it's vocal chords are shipped off!!!!

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Husker:

I'm just gonna go with Jet Hot, and get the whole exhaust system done all at once, headers to the chrome tips, and the chrome tips are going to stay that way - chrome, just like yours. I've plunked so much down to buy the Pantera, then getting carried away with too many projects all at once, and I'm gonna break the bank if I do everything all at once, but this is gonna get done within the next 3 months, just pay up and do it right. No paint, just do it once this way!

Question: my Pantera still has the inserts in the exhaust tips for quiet performance, can those be pulled out? I presume they are packed with fiberglass or steel wool for sound deadening, which I'll re-do. How can they be pulled out? I don't want the steel wool or fiberglass Jet Hot coated. Any ideas?

Thank you.

Stock Ansa mufflers didn't have packing inserts in the tips. There is a final baffle inside the muffler that can be removed with some difficulty, to approximate the sound and flow of a GTS muffler, by ramming a pipe down each chrome tip and whacking it with a hammer! The 'baffle' is a large washer tack welded to the end of a screen-baffle below each chrome tip (4 washers). You are only trying to pop the washer-weld loose on one edge, not break it completely off. If it breaks, you'll have a permanent jingle-bells effect at idle unless you cut the case apart & retrieve the loose par(s). All this is better done before Jet-Hot coating, obviously.

My chrome exhaust tips have a 'silencer' in them, as I saw on the GTS feature on the cover of "Pantera International', Fall, 1999, No. 100 (you can't really see them on that photo, and the photos featured in the article don't show up real well, but in a later issue of P.I. when this same vehicle was advertized at $75,000.00, there was a better photo of the RED INSERTS in the tips of the exhausts on that Silver/Black GTS (by the way, this is a thing that I liked when I decide to buy the car, if I'm Hauling A**, I don't want to advertize that, it's my thrill, not to display disrespect for law abiding citizens, ha ha ha, but true....)

Anyway, to get a better idea of what I'm describing, on the inside back cover of that same P.I.Issue, is a Red Group IV, from Australia, bottom right photo. You can see the 'silencer inserts' this guy's got too. (Guess he likes to Haul A** w/o getting tickets too!!!! And, max speed across the Australian Outback would be a GREAT place to do it too, like in that car, or mine, or yours, or any Pantera!)

How the heck does a guy get those out? Could just grind off the spot welds at the Chrome extensions I guess. Know what I'm trying to do now?

I like the idea of changing the tone of the exhausts a little with the 'hole in the baffles' technique and I think I remember reading your tips on that long ago in P.I. as well, but didn't recall 'til you just said it.... Sort of like hitting a different note on the Baritone Saxaphone while the towel is still covering the outlet, so as not to bother the neighbors, but still get the pleasure of the music....

I'm enjoying this whole Pantera thing, including the Pantera People, greatly!!!

Thanks, Ron Norman.

I just re-read your Post and thought maybe I'm misunderstanding. But my exhaust tips have inserts, just like the silencers on dirt bikes 20 years ago. The Inserts are about 1" from the tip of the chrome extensions and go down into the chrome extensions about 6" to 8" and when viewed with a flash light have about 700 1/16" holes drilled into a tube that is about 1.25" diameter extending down into the exhaust tips toward the muffler. I don't think it's a question of ANSA Mufflers, it's probably an aftermarket item to reduce noise like the old dirt bike 'silencers' that had a re-packable fiberglass sound deadener. Used to be you'd take a screw off the final edge lip of the silencer, pull out the tube along with the fiberglass packing, wrap new fiberglass around it, push it back into the outer 'silencer skin' and away you go on the back tire only!! Only this seems like the chrome extension is the 'outer silencer skin' and there is no screw perpendicular to the flow of the exhaust gas mounted on the extension. Maybe special chrome extensions that gotta be ground off at the spot welds? Or can you put something down in there like one heck of a strong fish hook on a fishing leader for shark, i.e. strong? Heat up a long screwdriver under acetylene and fashion a hook? Certainly they're not threaded into the chrome extension....

I would imagine that the perferated tube you are discribing was welded into the assembly as the whole muffler was being put together. If you really want them out of there! I myself might try: 1. A SMALL diameter cicular AIR driven saw/or grinder, on an extention. 2. An acetalene cutting torch, with a very small tip to reach in and just melt away at the mounting of the inside tube. Ofcourse, this method may cause a discoloraion of the chrome tip. 3. Reach in with a steel bar and leverage/bend the tube back and forth, back and forth until it just snaps off the welds. I have these mufflers off my car, (I installed the P.I. Stainless Steel 2 1/4" units), and since the output diameters (on the stock mufflers), are really quit small, you probably will not see a noticable performance gain. Although your intent is for a slightly louder sound, this, you may accomplish. Good-Luck, Marlin.

[This message has been edited by MARLIN JACK (edited 06-18-2003).]

Trying to remove the silencers before Jet Hot Coating.

Found what was gonna be the perfect tool: the handle to the hydraulic jack. It fits in there, and has a pin on the end of hit, so I stuck it in there, hooked the pin on the lip of the silencer 8" deep in there, and tugged. No budging. 3" diameter new chrome tips are spot welded over the original exhaust tips, and the silencers musta been welded in at the ANSA Factory as Marlin Jack said. So, I got a screwdriver and clinked it on the inside of the silencer, to see if it would ring true or have a suppression of the ring such as steel wool buffering the harmonics of the metal. And that's what seems to be the case, a packing material preventing a tone from eminating like a tuning fork. Just a dull clank, no clanging.

These silencers must have packing, and if that packing gets Jet Hot Coated, its just gonna clog, restricting exhaust flow and making it loud at the same time. And since its just got chrome tips over the ends, grinding off the welds and removing the tips is not gonna enable the extraction of the silencer units. If the silencers were not packed with sound absorbing material, then it would be OK to Jet Hot Coat the silencers too.

So, when I go to get the entire exhaust system Jet Hot Coated, I'm gonna ask them if it's possible NOT TO DIP THE CHROME TIPS, cause it'll ruin the silencers. Gotta do some checking with the vendor. Dip the entire Headers to coat inside & out, but only dip the back half of the exhaust system up to the bottom edge of the chrome tips.

But I want to drive this thing while the weather's nice. So I'm gonna do this project a little later. But if I hadn't thought this thing out in advance, I'd just be dissapointed because I'd hate to do Jet Hot Coating, just to have to cut the tips off and weld on the new Jet Hot Coating surface.

Any other ideas or experiences on Jet Hot Coating the entire exhaust system, while preserving the silencers and chrome tips?

So,

I called www.jet-hot.com and was quoted 480 bones for the entire exhaust system, both headers and the muffler assemblies. $230 for just the headers or $250 for just the exhaust assemblies. I'll end up saving on freight by shipping them all at once. Their closest plant for me is in the Phoenix, AZ area. Freight is about $60-70 round trip. They'll get the job done in 3-5 days.

I'm going with their 'Sterling' color. Looks like chrome or polished aluminum or Stainless Steel. I think it'll look really tricked out when it's back on. They can mask off the chrome tips so they stay chrome.

The procedure is to 'sandblast' them with aluminum oxide crystals, inside & out, then apply the coating(s). The inside is 'all or nothing' and I guess I'm gonna go with inside & out for the headers and only the outside for the muffler assemblies because I have those silencers inside the four (4) tips of my exhaust pipes.

Jet-hot Coatings not only insures no corrosion and excellent looks, but also runs "alot cooler, and not just by a few degrees" so this will keep the area around the carburator cooler and thus running better. It will also keep the car's interior a little cooler.

Jet-Hot Coatings is sending me a box to ship these parts in. And I'm gonna try and ship them out on Thursday, July 3, 2003, to get this done.

To prepare the surfaces for coating, Jet-Hot forces their sandblasting material through the tubes (as well as sandblasts the exterior).

My question, and I only have two (2) days to find an answer, is:

(1) Is it a good idea to sandblast the interior of the exhaust/muffler assemblies, given the fact that I have the silencers inserted into the tips of the four (4) exhaust tips?
It would make that part of the exhaust system run a little cooler and prevent possible corrosion.

(2) Is there any packing material such as fiberglass or steel wool or even asbestos behind the four (4) perforated silencer tubes?

Thank you.

Ron, I can't answer those 2 questions, but I can tell you I had this done to my exhaust and the only problem is the headers stain if you get antifreeze on them when they are hot, like when you are bleeding the air out of the cooling system.

Gary
#06984

Good tip Gary. My very first Post on this Bulletin Board was wrongly placed in the 'Announcements' section. I wrote a How-To for installing a huge 100 Amp alternator in my Pantera about a month ago, anyway, I had to cut the heater hose to add a section to go over the top of the alternator. I also had to diconnect the steel pipe where the thermostat is attached, and so, therefore, this became the tallest point in my water coolant system, which of course I use to bubble the air out of the system, while it is cold. The theory being, that if the expansion tank is properly filled, then it will self regulate its own volume. If there are no bubbles or air pockets, then that is what one wants. If it is hot, then there is gonna be pressurized hot water and that scares me. So, I just haven't done the bleeding of the system while it's hot yet, and it has never gone over 215 degrees yet, even in traffic or when hotly pushing curves going up a mountain from 5,200 feet to 11,200 feet.

I've been know to learn the hard way in life, and I really appreciate your tip. Wise men learn from each other and everyone else in life. The fool repeats his mistakes.

Please tell me if I am ever incorrect in anything I post, make wrong presumptions, or you see I'm heading for disaster. I will respect such advice.

I bet your exhaust system looks REALLY TRICK! Way to go, Gary! I'm right behind ya! Working hard to keep up, but not able to pass.... This is fun!

Thanks for your response. I'm gonna go route one (1) unless I learn I can go route two (2) pretty soon.

I guess we should cut a piece of cardboard and slide it between the expansion tank or reservoir tank and the headers (I don't even know which is the right way to do that yet, expansion tank or reservoir, maybe I'm going on the 'need to know' basis at week 7 of Pantera ownership!) and maybe wet it down some to prevent fire, then loosen the cap (with a towel under my hand & over the cap) and let the bubbles bleed.

Feel free to write me a paragraph on this, Gary (if you like, or I'll look it up later). I'm not sure anybody's scrolled down this far on this thread anyway. Maybe somebody'll read it and need to know too.

Thanks. Ron Norman, 7/1/03

I hope puddle splashes don't stain the Jet-Hot Coating on the Ansa mufflers, when they are hot. The quote from the chrome guy was $450 for two exhaust assemblies. Not including the headers. And chrome will discolor from heat. So....

It's Jet-Hot, that's what everyone recommended. Bad Boy has an aluminum color Big Throat exhaust system. Looks great to me.

Think we better use a piece of plywood to deflect anti-freeze away from the headers when bleeding the cooling system. Cardboard would be dangerous.