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How to align front end?

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markmmarkmBuy now, pay later!
Lets see if I can get this right, The caster is adjusted by the shims that should be between upper ball joint bracket and the a arm moving these front to rear will change the caster. My early 71 has no shims from the factory and no way to adjust caster. Camber is adjusted in the same area . The two bolts going though the upper ball joint bracket in the a arms should be slotted to allow adjustment. May not be visable with the washers and bolts installed and many the vendors have a kit that mounts on the upper a arm that makes doing this adjustment easier (camber lock kit). You’re right on the toe it’s adjusted at steering rack.
Last edited by markm
E edmguru (Guest)
General wisdom is take all thhe castor you can get, usually 3 to 5 degrees depending on the year. The rest is sort of dependent on how you use the car. For general street-ability, Camber works out to be about 1 degree negative and toe in at 1/16 th inch on the front and 1/16 th inch on the rear. Remember that if viewed from the rear of the car, the rears will be in a tow out state. I think I got that right.Some one else may have a different spec.
panteradougpanteradougMember
Those are about the specs yes.
It depends on the wheels and tires you are running.
1/2 degree negative camber in the front is all you want for a street car.
Toe yes about 1/16 to 1/8 in, in front.
Rear should be the same. toe out in the rear will make the rear steer. You don't want that.
If you are running wide, low profile tires in front you are going to be looking for as much camber as you can get to reduce the dartiness and to gain high speed stabilaty.
The trade off is that you will wish you had power steering. If you don't you better start working out.
panteradougpanteradougMember
The GT4-5's are going to have the largest "contoversy" about the alighnment.

In order to go fast in that arangement one is going to require as much caster as you can get.

Do you remember the thread that Johnny Woods put up showing his modified front upper a arms?
That's what he is doing this for.

In my opinion, one is removing much or the steering manuverabilaty by doing so. The driver will no longer be able to operate the steering fast enough to avoid small problems in the road.
Pot holes, injured pedestrians, Iraqi land mines.
That kind of stuff.

I stayed with my 225-50-15 P's on my 8" Campis in the front with 285-55-15's on 10" Campis in the rear.
The only mod was a GTS rear anti-sway bar.

I find this to my liking on balance.

I don't have the cool looks of the current crop of "repro campis" and super tires under the stock fenders, but neither do I have the little quirks that come with them.

Bottom line is there is quite a bit of personal taste set into an alighment. It isn't a matter necessarily of right or wrong. There is some trial and error involved in it.
C comp2Member
quote:
Originally posted by edmguru:
Hey Doug, as a matter of fact I do have power steering. You are correct, I checked the alighnment sheet from getting mine done and the toe in is 1/8 th.


How do you like the power steering? I got a power steering unit for mine which comes with an electric pump. I plan on re-building much of the suspension with many changes. I am not going to build the a-arms and uprights till I get some rims. There are too many factors I am working on and I want to get everything from the AI angle, scrub, anti dive etc just the way I want it.

Gary
E edmguru (Guest)
Hi Gary,
I like the power steering but I'm a street driver coupled with the one useful arm, I needed it with my fat tires. It's great in parking lot manuvering and is not too light on the road at higher speeds. My pump is engine driven and is therefore not variable to reduce effort at speed. The electric pump should be a good candidate for variable boost. That would be the best solution. Let mr know how it works out.
Glenn
panteradougpanteradougMember
quote:
Originally posted by comp2:
quote:
Originally posted by edmguru:
Hey Doug, as a matter of fact I do have power steering. You are correct, I checked the alighnment sheet from getting mine done and the toe in is 1/8 th.


How do you like the power steering? I got a power steering unit for mine which comes with an electric pump. I plan on re-building much of the suspension with many changes. I am not going to build the a-arms and uprights till I get some rims. There are too many factors I am working on and I want to get everything from the AI angle, scrub, anti dive etc just the way I want it.

Gary




Where did you get the rack from? The Pantera rack LOOKS like a lot of other racks.

I'm sure that someone has found a power rack from another application that fits perfectly.
Does anyone here know?
E edmguru (Guest)
My rack came as part of the kit from Steve Wilkinson. I think the actual rack is a mid 80's
Chevette or Pontiac equivalent. The pump looks like a Japanese small truck unit. The kit was actually pretty well done, everything is a bolt in and uses hardlines for the plumbing so there is minimal if any pressure loss over the long run from engine to rack.
C comp2Member
The rack is a modified rack used for MGB conversion. It is basically a small car rack a vendor in the UK put's together.



The middle rack is the Pantera rack and the black rack is an MGB rack.

I chose it for a couple reasons. First many have said that many racks are overkill for the Pantera. Since this is for a smaller car I figured why not.

As luck would have it the ratios are very very close to the Pantera with another 1/2" travel.

It will require modification. I am not sure how well it would do withought getting into it as deep as I am. It will mount better from the frame rails then the power steering box. None of this is a problem for me as I am basically starting from scratch in some ways.

I can see where people would drop in racks and not be happy with them. There are many critical components. This rack is 3" too short so it will have to be lengthened. BUT...The Pantera geopmetry is not ideal either as the pivot points in the rack are not inline with the pivot points in the suspension. In fact I think the traditional bump steer fix; albeit the best solution for the car, actually creates other problems.

It is a little more then I can explain here but if I get all the geometry the way I want it I hope to have a totally different animal. If not, I will have gained some knowledge!

Sufice to say there is nothing simple about it.
panteradougpanteradougMember
quote:
Originally posted by comp2:
The rack is a modified rack used for MGB conversion. It is basically a small car rack a vendor in the UK put's together.



The middle rack is the Pantera rack and the black rack is an MGB rack.

I chose it for a couple reasons. First many have said that many racks are overkill for the Pantera. Since this is for a smaller car I figured why not.

As luck would have it the ratios are very very close to the Pantera with another 1/2" travel.

It will require modification. I am not sure how well it would do withought getting into it as deep as I am. It will mount better from the frame rails then the power steering box. None of this is a problem for me as I am basically starting from scratch in some ways.

I can see where people would drop in racks and not be happy with them. There are many critical components. This rack is 3" too short so it will have to be lengthened. BUT...The Pantera geopmetry is not ideal either as the pivot points in the rack are not inline with the pivot points in the suspension. In fact I think the traditional bump steer fix; albeit the best solution for the car, actually creates other problems.

It is a little more then I can explain here but if I get all the geometry the way I want it I hope to have a totally different animal. If not, I will have gained some knowledge!

Sufice to say there is nothing simple about it.



The MGB rack is the bottom? The middle is the stock Pantera, ok.
What is the top rack?
E edmguru (Guest)
I like the electric pump, but the mid 80's Chevette rack is a lot close to the Pantera in size and lock to lock. Ratio is almost the same and you only need to lengthen the tie rods about 1.5" per side.
The unit shown doesn't show a controller for variable boost, is that available?
C comp2Member
quote:
Originally posted by edmguru:
I like the electric pump, but the mid 80's Chevette rack is a lot close to the Pantera in size and lock to lock. Ratio is almost the same and you only need to lengthen the tie rods about 1.5" per side.
The unit shown doesn't show a controller for variable boost, is that available?


The criticl point is the pivot of the tie-rod and even that is different for how I am designing the suspension. It is actually one of many factors.
jeff6559jeff6559Member
There has been a thread about power steering on the POCA email forum and according to Mike Drew there is a guy in Europe who has a BMW power steering unit that works very well. SOBill Taylor has been doing some research as well. The Dallas person that Ghostridr mentioned (Nick S) has shipped the S2000 rack off to Dennis Quella to look at and so far, nothing has been done beyond that.
C comp2Member
quote:
Originally posted by jeff6559:
There has been a thread about power steering on the POCA email forum and according to Mike Drew there is a guy in Europe who has a BMW power steering unit that works very well. SOBill Taylor has been doing some research as well. The Dallas person that Ghostridr mentioned (Nick S) has shipped the S2000 rack off to Dennis Quella to look at and so far, nothing has been done beyond that.


Old news. He and I have been comparing notes for some time.
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