If things go smoothly, Snow White will have a new home in Malaysia

BE VERY CAUTIOUS.... WIRE TRANSFERS CAN BE REVERSED. EVEN A BANK CERTIFIED CHECK CAN BE REVERSED IF THE BANK HAS DISCOVERED SOMETHING WRONG AFTER THE TRANSACTION.

A COMMON SCAM GOES SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

JACK FROM INDONESIA WANTS TO BUY YOUR CAR. WIRE TRANS OR CERTIFIED CHECK. HE WANTS THE CAR PICKED UP THE MOMENT THE TRANSACTION HAPPENS. YOU LOOK IN YOUR ACCOUNT. $50,000 COOL ALL'S GOOD. PROBLEM IS FUNDS ARE SHOWING BUT HAVE NOT CLEARED YET. 48 HRS LATER THE BANK INFORMS YOU THAT IT WAS A FRAUDULENT TRANSACTION AND THERE IS NO MONEY. YOUR CAR IS ALREADY IN MEXICO GETTING LOADED ON A BOAT FOR DUBAI.

WAIT FOR BANK CONFIRMATION THAT FUNDS HAVE CLEARED.

quote:

I'll hand the car, and the signed title over to the driver, (after taking triplicate copies of everything, and sending copies to the buyer, as well as pics of the car on the truck, so he knows it's all going well.

Do NOT hand the original title to the driver with the car! Provide a copy of the title to the driver with the car. FedEx or DHL the original to the new owner.

Mike, a wire transfer is a cash transaction with a paper trail. It cannot be reversed once the funds have been deposited into your account (without a court order). People confuse deposits with wire transfers. When PayPal says they are wiring funds into your account, they aren't; it's just a deposit and can be reversed if either Bank deems something wrong with the transaction. A true wire transfer is the safest way to get paid for something. It's safer than having a briefcase full of cash delivered to your door. Don't sweat it. If you want your Bank to be able to track the wire, ask the sender to e-mail you a copy of the MT103. A Bank Teller won't have a clue what that is but the Bank's wire transfer dept will.

The key thing if the funds are "cleared". As Agustboy indicated. The transaction will show "pending" for several days on an international wire. Normally 3-4 business days.

Once cleared means the funds are deposited and available in your account. At that point all is good.

Still waiting on wire transfer to happen.

quote:

Originally posted by garth66:

quote:

I'll hand the car, and the signed title over to the driver, (after taking triplicate copies of everything, and sending copies to the buyer, as well as pics of the car on the truck, so he knows it's all going well.

Do NOT hand the original title to the driver with the car! Provide a copy of the title to the driver with the car. FedEx or DHL the original to the new owner.

As the car is going overseas you may be forced to hand the title to the driver as US Customs will likely not export the car without an original title to stamp.

I purchased a 50,0000.00 bob cat loader last year off crag's list last year . very stressful. I wire transfer money only after machine was loaded on truck. Once money was transferred you can not get it back.
A friend one time sold a Rolex watch. The buyer paid with credit card. He thought because he receiver confirmation number form credit card company, transaction was good. After couple weeks card company took back money said card was no good.

As the car is going overseas you may be forced to hand the title to the driver as US Customs will likely not export the car without an original title to stamp.[/QUOTE]

This is what was explained to me. The title needs to go with the car so it can pass customs at both ends of shipment.

quote:

Originally posted by mike the snake:
As the car is going overseas you may be forced to hand the title to the driver as US Customs will likely not export the car without an original title to stamp.

This is what was explained to me. The title needs to go with the car so it can pass customs at both ends of shipment.[/QUOTE]

That is correct Mike. I've sold 2 cars to Australia without issue. I kept copies of the title and completed Bill of Sale (for my records), scanned and emailed title & BOS to buyer then placed originals in envelope and put in the glove box. Wish you a smooth transaction.

Thanks!

The buyer asked me to forward the info to his banker (not sure why he couldn't have forwarded it himself), which I did, he the said he'd let me know when the transfer was sent.

There's a 15 hour difference between us, so some waiting might be involved (i suspect) because he was persistent about buying the car, and so I went from thinking it was a scam to this guy was legit.

So far our communications have been straightforward, I don't smell anything fishy yet. Waiting now that I've sent my info is difficult. I kind of expected the wire to happen immediately after i sent my info, but it looks like he's checking with his bank to make the transfer and/or checking to make sure MY info is legit.

I'm waiting in my holding pattern, loitering, hoping for that email that says "OK I've sent you the transfer".

Then I should be able to call the bank, confirm the transfer, wait for it to clear, and he has chosen his own shipping company.

I've asked for the shipping company info so I can check (for his sake) that there's no bad info online about the company he chose, but he won't/hasn't sent me that info.

I expect once the wire transfer is sent, he'll then want to talk about the logistics of the shipping.

Mike,

I really hope this sale happens for you without grief. Maybe I've read about too many scams and I'm being cynical. But why is he being so accommodating? What you've discussed is that at some point in time you will have his money and you will have the title to the car .. so he's doing something that if the shoe was on the other foot we'd never agree to. I'd have an "honest broker" like the bank, that would confirm that the $$ transfer was valid and then would send the title to the buyer before the seller got the money. It would hold in escrow the money and the title. Banks do this all the time.

I was reading on another car site yesterday how scammers go through the "I trust you" phase and then change the terms to get some money from the seller. So, just a word of warning .. don't let the sales prospective at "your asking price" cloud logic. Good luck.

quote:

there's no bad info online about the company he chose, but he won't/hasn't sent me that info.

I trust you have also done a thorough web search on the buyer and his bank?

Larry

Mike,

I hope all goes well with the sale, the risk is minimal your end as you hold all the cards here and you are not releasing the vehicle until you have confirmed money in your account. You should have the buyers bank details and a verifiable number to call to check the individual holds an account.

I have purchased multiple vehicles where I have wired money to a seller on trust that the vehicle is as described, but you do need to do some due diligence. My one rule though is never do business with anyone at arms length, if you cannot physically talk to them verify a number to call back and physical address etc. it's suspicious.

So when you say you have "communicated" with the buyer I do hope you mean a real conversation on the end of a phone. Malaysia is not known as the hot spot for Pantera's so I googled importing a vehicle and it is extremely difficult and expensive, that starts to rings some cautionary alarm bells for me.

Julian

No I hadn't done any searches on him or his bank. I'll do that for sure.

Since the bank account only has $25 in it, and I have the car and title, I figure I don't have anything to lose. IF this turns out to be a scam, I'll be changing all my bank account numbers, and CC numbers, and alert everyone to be on the lookout for any activity on ANY of my accounts, basically lockdown on everything.

He is sending the wire transfer to my account, and knows that until it clears, and I've cashes, or moved the money to another account, and I'm convinced that the money is secure, only then, will I let the car and title out of my hands, and he knows this.

SO, I'm still waiting for this wire transaction to happen. There's a 15 hour difference in time zones, so it may just be taking the extra day because he got the info late at night or something and couldn't act immediately. I''m hoping that is the case.

So far, everything has gone smoothly, we've communicated, although I HAVE asked for him to call me and he hasn't done that. He asked for my phone number but hasn't called.
I've also asked for his shipper's information, and he hasn't responded about that either.

All I know, is that if a wire transfer hits my account, and clears, I'm good to go. The car is his, and he has told me he's made his own shipping arrangements, so when I have the money, he can then pick up the car, not before.

The wire transfer DOES go through an intermediary bank (Wells Fargo I think) before it gets to my account, so I think when the transfer hits my account, I'm good. My bank told me it takes a day or 2 to clear once it hits them.

Fingers crossed, knocking on wood.

quote:

Originally posted by LF - TP 2511:

quote:

there's no bad info online about the company he chose, but he won't/hasn't sent me that info.

I trust you have also done a thorough web search on the buyer and his bank?

Larry

I did a quick search for him from Malaysia and got nothing.

It's also Saturday where he is now, so it may be that I have to wait til Monday for him to be able to send the wire transfer. I don't know if the banks in Malaysia are open on weekends.

Waiting sucks, and I'm kind of sketched out, but everything so far seems to be legit, so I'm not going to push, or try and rush anything.

After Monday, if I don't have the wire transfer, I'll get more aggressive about when he's going to send it, and if I smell a scam, I'll be changing the account numbers on all my accounts, and probably my credit cards as well.

quote:

All I know, is that if a wire transfer hits my account, and clears, I'm good to go.

You should ask and be told, perhaps in writing, under what conditions could the transfer be retroactively refused.

International, through multiple banks, and perhaps because ONE bank gives you your money another earlier in the chain may be the first to find a fraud.

Just know how solid your funds really are if things go south a week or two later.

If you never get shipper info, you may in fact have no idea where it is really being shipped to.

I'm nervous about this sale, especially in light of Julian's importation research.

Larry

google indicates there ia a Pantera in Mayalsia
http://www.motorme.my/dr-sedhus-detomaso-pantera-gts/

I'm getting leery about this sale too.

So far I've asked for him to call, or give me his phone number, no answer.

I've asked for his shipping company so I can check (for both our sake's) on the comapny, he hasn't replied.

After giving him the info, he then asked me to send the same info to his banker (the bank DOES exist, I checked) but I don't know why he couldn't have just forwarded the info himself.

He's 15 hours ahead of me, and it's the weekend, so I'm hoping he's just not able to do anything over the weekend, just like I wouldn't here in the US.

I've sent a couple emails asking if he had an idea as to when he might be able to send the transfer, with no reply.

I'm going to wait til Monday, probably noon, and then get aggressive with my emails saying shit, or get off the pot.

If I smell a scam, then I'll have to go through changing my account numbers and notify the bank to refuse any transactions unless personally authorized by me, it'll be a hassle, and a waste of time, and a big let-down for me.

I'm staying positive though, Monday Noon and he'll start getting emails like "I have provided you with the information necessary for the wire transaction we have agreed upon. Please send the wire transfer as we discussed. If I don't hear back from you in 24 hours, I'm going to think you are possibaly a scam, because you have not responded to any of my emails for 3 days now,you haven't called me as I asked you to do, and haven't given me your shipper, so I can check out that company, so I'm left wondering if you are serious, or just wanted my bank information for a scam. Please respond as quickly as possible, enough time has passed, you said you wanted the car and needed the info "really fast", yet now you've gone dark on me, so I have to make a conclusion".

I'm fine, the account has $25 in it, so no big deal there if he cleans that account out (if it's a scam) and I have the car and title.

Neither the car or title is leaving my garage until the transfer has happened, and then cleared fully, then I'll probably move the money to another different account, or cash it directly. Once I have the money, it's on him, I'll give him my address and tell him to get his car out of my garage! lol

Believe me though, the money will be secured, and positively MINE, irrevocable, THEN I'll give him the car and title, not before, no way, no how.

I'm giving him the weekend, I think it's safe to assume he can't do banking on weekends, just like I can't here (that's an assumption), but after monday afternoon, I'll get more aggressive, and then squash the whole thing if I smell a fish.

Mike, I may have missed it in an earlier post but have to ask. Did the buyer mention where they found the car advertised? If it was on this site He / she may be following along with this thread. I don't know if that would be good or bad , but it is something to think about.

He replied to Craigslist ad. But I haven't written anything I wouldn't have a problem with writing to him directly.

I've already expressed my worries that this might be a scam, he's shown with persistence and communications that he seems legit enough for me to take a chance and go ahead and try and make a deal.

He's not done the things I've asked, that's just fact, if he has issues with those things, well, I don't know what to say.

When I'm doing a big money deal like this, I prefer high levels of communication, and I expect my requests-not unreasonable, like call me, give me his shipper's info so I can check, and answer my questions about when he might have an idea when the transfer will go through (which I waited 24 hours before asking) to be honored.

So far he's gone dark just after I gave him all my information. He can read this, I would think anyone would be leery. I told him when I was sending the info, and sent it on time. He's not indicated when he's going to send the transfer, just said "he'll get back to me", and I haven't pushed, like I said, I think it's the weekend, so I'm waiting until later on Monday to communicate again, where I'll be asking more direct questions, because if I haven't heard from him by then I'll be smelling fish.

I think my worries are normal, and if he reads this, that's OK. I've held up my end of the deal, sent off critical personal information, and now he has that info and isn't responding to my emails.

I'm excited, and scared at the same time. I've never done an overseas sale. I've bugged a couple people here asking about international sales, I think I've done everything correctly, all I need now is for him to send the wire transfer and shipping info, and then once the money is secured, I'll allow the car to be taken.

I always try to write things (even on the internet) that I wouldn't have a problem saying to one's face.

I've also expressed to him that I'll be telling him everything I know about the car, the good and the bad, and everything I know about the car, so there's no surprises when he gets the car.
I plan to take many pics, pics of the car, the car going onto the shipper's truck, of the title, everything.

I told him, (and I plan to be) totally transparent with this sale.

OK I just got an email from him giving me the phone number to his assistant, if there's any problems.

I don't know if that means he has sent the transfer, or to expect the transfer, and if it doesn't come through to call his assistant, it is difficult, there IS a slight language barrier, but his English does seem pretty darn good.

SO, it's hopefully On like Donkey Kong!

Monday morning, I'll be calling the bank, then it's more of the waiting game for the transfer to clear, but it looks like it may work out. YAY!

It is scary enough doing a large sale in the states, so I understand your fears on an international deal. I would think that same feeling applies to the buyer also by sending a large some of money halfway around the world in good faith. You mentioned he gave you a number for his assistant. That may be the reason for the delays especially if the assistant is his translator

When I bought my Pantera in Sweden (I live in Belgium) the mony was send on the same day. I know not all banks do this but for me and the seller it was a problem free transaction. I checked out the car called my bank and the mony was on his account a few hours later.

hello,
i bought a detomaso pantera via this site a few month ago, the car 4233, was in New Iberia Louisiana.
Has my english is not perfect i told to the seller that i prefer to do everythings by email, it is much more easier to write or read something than to speak on the phone.
He send me by email all the paper i needed to be sure there is no problem with the sale.
Then I send him the money, and i send him the receip of the money transfert by email with a copy of my passport.
My bank is one of the 5 biggest and older french bank but the money took more than 2 weeks to be definitively on his account.
The fault make from my banker who made mistake and didn't follow as he should this transfert.
A normal delay for an international transfert should be expected on 5 open days not less.
A transfert between 2 european country can be made in a few hours but it is not possible between non european country.
I understand that you would like to know if the deal will work well, but you should not be worry as you son't have risk at this time: you have the car and title, nobody can stole your car if you are not absolutly comfortable about the complete payement!
Give to this buyer a little time, he perhaps need to make a transfert between his own bank account before beeing able to send the price to you.
It seems that in united states you can ask your bank to do what you want, in France (and perhaps in Malaysia) you are just allowed to ask to your bank to be kind enough to do what you want when they will come back from theire vacations.....
I wish you a good end for this sale.
best regards
Nicolas

I've been reading all of these horror stories regarding wire transfers and thought I should offer some words of advice, as wiring funds, internationally, is part of my day-to-day business. Even post-911, I can usually wire funds from SE Asia to the USA in less than 24 hours. Most problems arise because of the different "systems" used to wire money around the world, resulting in incomplete instructions. A teller at Bank of America likely has no clue, when it comes to wire transfers. If you ask the teller (or a CSR on the phone) for your WT info, she gives you an ABA number, which means nothing to a bank in Malaysia. The bank in Malaysia needs a SWIFT code. They might contact the receiving bank in the USA, they might try to figure it out or they might ask their customer to get it, but when the two parties are 15 time zones apart, sending info back and forth can take days.

The way to eliminate this problem is to do some work in advance. Ask the sending bank what information they need to perform a wire transfer then, go to the receiving bank and ask them for it. At both ends, this will usually involve tellers calling the bank's wire transfer dept to get the info. If the receiving bank uses a different system, you need that info too. Then, pile all of the info into the sending bank's wire transfer instruction form. This form is usually an electronic template on a computer screen, so it won't accept data that it doesn't expect; however, there's usually a comment section at the bottom of the template. Have the bank put all the other info into the comment section. As an example, North American banks don't usually have a line for the SWIFT code or an IBAN code, which is usually important information for non-North American banks. Conversely, a Malaysian bank won't be able to input Bank of America's ABA number. Simply have the bank put the extra info into the comment section of the transfer. Put the address of the beneficiary into the comment section too. You can never put too much info into a wire but putting too little info into a wire can slow things down significantly.

Also, there is always an official document that's produced when funds have left the sending institution. It's called the MT103. Ask for a copy. If the transfer doesn't arrive on time, have your branch send it to their wire transfer dept to track the transfer. It's also proof that the transfer's been done.

quote:

Originally posted by Nicolas QUENTIN:
hello,
i bought a detomaso pantera via this site a few month ago, the car 4233, was in New Iberia Louisiana....
Nicolas

Your experiance made the NEWS
http://chronicle.augusta.com/l...-it-new-owner-france

Buying this car, i became one of the most ,south west france, famous pantera owner of New Iberia!!! There is no price for this!

I was given a PDF form from my bank specifically for receiving a wire transfer from Malaysia, that had the SWIFT code, and intermediary bank code number, my bank and account number, so I believe he's gotten all the correct information.

He gave me his assistant's phone number, who I talked with. He was a very nice gentleman, and said that the buyer HAD decided to buy the car, and to expect the transfer to come soon.

That was 2 days ago, I'm hoping it's just taking time due to the time difference, and the intermediary bank possibly taking a day day or 2 to finally ge the transfer to MY bank.

It looks like it's going to all work out though!

My fingers are sore from being crossed, and my knuckles are sore from knocking on wood, waiting SUCKS!

Also, due to the time difference, I have to be aware of when I call.

As we left it from our last conversation though, I was supposed to be getting the wire transfer sent, so I'm hoping today is the big day!

I also cross my fingers for you.
good luck
Simon

i had to use a swift code when i transfered funds for my cat

I called and the buyer's assistant said the transfer was sent. He called the bank, and the wrong email was given for the account (we have more than one email)so everything was on Hold.

The kicker is, now I get a call after solving That issue, and now the Malaysian Government needs $3000 for the transfer to be able to be sent.

They asked if I wanted to wire $3000 and then they would then overpay me the same amount (no way is hell that's happening) so I just asked for the buyer to simply pay the tax, and do whatever it takes to make the wire transfer go through.

I've sent them my info 4 or 5 times, to everyone, I don't think it's a scam, I don't doubt that Malaysia DOES have a tax on wire transfers, but I'm not paying it, and especially before I've received the money.

Ball is now back in his court, he has to pay $3000 to his government, then the transfer can go through, as it has been explained to me.

This sucks, but I'm OK with waiting a little while to make the sale.

So I wait and see. I've sent an email off to the buyer, he knows already anyways, but I do not like the part where the banker asked if I wanted to pay the $3000 and then have the buyer send me the same extra amount back on top of the money for the car.

Mike, what you're being told is pure BS. Are you sure the buyer is in Malaysia, not Nigeria?

I just got another email from the buyer on my other computer, saying "I cannot pay the tax, I am stuck away at work, and don't know when I will be back, but I need the car as quickly as possible. Please send the $3000 and I will instruct my assistant to then overpay you the same amount.

I sent him an email back saying "I'm very sorry, but this is THE classic 'you send me money first so I can send you the money' scam, not that THIS is a scam, but I'm not sending any money anywhere".

I then suggested he instruct his assistant to take the $3000 from the original wire transfer amount, and use THAT to pay the tax, and I'd trust him to send me the remaining $3000 when he was able to do so.

I told him I'd send him the car if he underpayed me by $3000, and would trust him to send me the remaining $3000 when he was able.

MAN, it just STINKS like FISH around here right now!

IMHO,

Mike,

END THIS TRANSACTION ..... NOW!!!

Stop emailing.

Stop everything.

Leave the ball in the buyer's court. I suspect you will hear nothing more from him if you go into silent mode.

You are being set up.

Larry

Mike!
My suggestion is that you stop this now. One way these kind of criminals try to do is what you have explaned and that they have huge sum of money that have to be split/changed and beg for the other half. If you still have the car or some other cool stuf going on maybe we can meet. I have a friend in SF who got a house in Glen Ellen that I will wisit during new yaer.

There is allways other buyers
Anders

Sorry for bad spelling...

Here's his bank and information. Normally I wouldn'y out someone, but this guy is in Malaysia, and I'm 99% sure this is a scam at this point, so here goes, this is his bank info he gave me. I checked it out, it looks like a bank or loan company:

MIRI Commercial Bank

Mr Mohd Johari Bin Othman, General Manager

Othman@miricb.com
Phone is 60102745439

Buyer's name is Martin Park. email is Martin Park1@gmail.com

Assistant's name is DG Kaitomah Binti Ibarahim

His phone is 60182013508

Maybe someone can help me dig a little and see if there's any truth to anything, or if this is just an elaborate scam.

As soon as the bank opens I'm closing the account, and putting a lockdown on other accounts.