lubrications and oil topic question,

quote:

Originally posted by eddie:

... but I do have a 1971 mach1 , my dad ordered the car new when he was in the navy, my mom sold the car when I was around 11 yrs old, then I found the guy she sold it to and bought it back when I was around 22 yrs old, ... I restored the car and me and my dad rebuilt the motor ...

Eddie welcome to the forums. Yours is a heart warming story, very bitchen. Congratulations.

quote:

Originally posted by eddie:


... but as it got hot the psi would drop to around 25 or 30 psi we didn't like this so we took it apart and the mains were worn to the copper! it only had like 3,000 miles on it, (easy miles) ...

#1. when I rebuild it again do I have to run lifter bushings? ...

It is typical in a 351C for the main bearings and even more so the rod bearings to wear to copper ... quickly. And the hot oil pressure suffers, especially at idle. I've observed this since the first 351 Cleveland engines I worked on, back in the 1970s. I'm sure the current bearings in your Mustang's engine are thus worn as well.

If you don't want this to happen again install the tappet bore bushings. They not only "fix" the lubrication system, they hot-rod it. They are easy to install, and they do no harm to the engine. There is no reason to have trepidation about installing them. Wydendorf's kit is reasonably priced, and you can sell the tools afterward and make back part of your money. Use a 0.060" or 1/16" orifice. They work just fine with HT-900 hydraulic flat tappets, they should work fine with hydraulic roller tappets too.

Please read the following thread. I've made comments in my post (first page) regarding building the engine without bushings. Engine Forum Sticky #4

Thank you so much for your help! so just to be clear , I should install the bushings and the cam restrictors? both,? even though it is a street motor? I just thought I could get away with one or the other instead of both , but if both is better that's what im going to do!

I have only had two 351 Clevelands. Built them both from short blocks that were apart. One was from a Pantera, the other out of a Torino.

I used Clevite fully grooved main bearings on both and Clevites on the rod bearings. Use them on all of my other engines as well. At one time that was controversial too. What it does though is provide the same effect as cross drilling the crank without worrying that you have weakened the crank.

Neither engine showed wear on the original bearings that came with them as described by George.

The original engine that came in my Pantera was a greasy mess and I just pulled it and sold it as is. Built a "new engine" for it. Never looked at the bearings in that one though. That was a 35psi/20 psi engine with the stock oil pump

Both got the Gapp & Rousch oil restrictors. The Wyandorff bushing kit was not available yet when either of these builds was done.

Both use solid lifter cams with the special small orifice solid lifters.

TRW high volume oil pumps in both. 80 psi cold at start up. All engines are going to loose oil pressure as the engine warms up and gets hot. The clearances on the bearings expand at that point.

Neither engine ever dropped below 30 to 35 psi.

The type of oil pump to use is controversial. Some say a high volume is the wrong pump and to run the stock pump.

The problem with that is the hot oil pressure will drop to about 15 psi at idle hot.

There is an adage that says you need 10 psi of pressure for every 1,000 engine rpm. Under that adage, a stock pump would be fine.


My 347 will drop to 25 psi hot from 80 cold. I had the bottom end apart on that one to check it when I changed the oil pump. Bearing were fine.

That one uses a strange concoction of bearings out of a GM 3.8 V6 as I recall. Those are fully grooved too. Eagle crank and H beam rods in that one.


The lifter bushings are also controversial. The stock engine with the G&R restrictor kit and the Cleveland solid lifters is known to be good to 7,000 rpm. If you are going over that then yes, you need to bush the lifter bores, but you also need to do other things to the engine as well.


When you have the rods rebuilt, they cut about .002" off of the top of the cap where if mates to the rod. Then they run them through the "rod machine" which hones the hole out and makes it round. As a result, yes the notch for the bearing tabs is smaller but I doubt that should be any kind of an issue since the tab on the bearing is supposed to get crushed to hold it in place.


A stroker in these engines is neat but the stock 4v crank and rods are very hefty and are fine even for racing. I polish my rods and put in the best ARP rod bolts, install the thick Boss-HP balancer and a forged steel flywheel. It really is a 7,500 rpm engine as such.


With 500 hp available on a performance rebuild, why do you need to go over 7,000?

In a Pantera in 5th that's 200 mph.

I would think that MAYBE you just had an issue with low quality bearings? Could have been a dry initial start up also. You can cause 50,000 miles of wear to the engine then if you don't do it right. It really is a blessing if you have a tough time getting it started for the first time. The engine is already well oiled by then.

Run Mobil 1 full synthetic 10-40 is plenty for this engine. 20-50 in a cold climate will do more harm than
good.


The first Cleveland I built was for my 68 Shelby GT350. It had Webers on it and was 11.8:1. That engine got pulled out when Shelbys got crazy valuable but in it's place was the original 302 but stroked to 347. Kinda looks stock but sure doesn't run like it?

Second one is in my Pantera now. Webers are back but with a twist. Has a nice used set of Ford A3 aluminum heads out of a circle track race car that Joe Lapine of Danbury Competition built...oh and 180 degree headers. Those definitely wouldn't fit in the Shelby?


Welcome to the Forum Eddie. See ya' around.

With stock Pantera gearing and 25.6" dia. tires, 7000RPM will give you 179.38 mph according to RBT transmission calculator.

Eddie, I installed both the lifter bore bushing and the restrictors per George's recommendations. I run a stock oil pump and I have 80-90 cold and 40 hot. Engine works great. The lifter bore bushings were installed in my garage by me in 2-3 hours. First Cleveland I ever built. What a monster it is.

Thank you all for the info, and help it is really appreciated! I was just worried about restricting to much oil because this is not a drag car, and im looking for longevity but it seems the more I read the more it seems like stock motors should have this done as well. I really wish I would have known this years ago!

I also installed the lifter bore bushings and the T. Meyer restricted Cam Bearings. I also installed the cam restriction plugs per the T. Meyer instructions (I believe only in the #1 and #5 journals I can't remember exactly, but it's written down in my build book).

#5357 Build Thread

Engine build data is on the first page. I used a hydraulic roller cam.

I definitely thought that I had made the right decision on bushing the motor when I saw the size of the oil feed holes in the lifter bores before they were bushed - they must have been at least 1/4" across.

I used .060 orifices on the lifter bushings.

I have a hydraulic roller cam.

My buddy helped me with porting the oil pump and oil pump and oil filter feed passages, as well. We used a standard Melling Oil Pump, but put a washer in the spring to boost the bleed valve tension a bit.

I am getting 30+ psi at idle, and 80+ psi (rock solid, as the bleed valve limits the upper limit of the oil pressure) at higher RPMs.


I feel very confident I did the "right" things on my build. I understand why we did what we did, and I agree with the reasoning. Are there other ways to build a motor? Sure! But you pays your money, and you takes your chances - I paid some more money, and I feel like I am taking less risk - time will tell.

After 500 miles, my motor runs great, so I think we did the main build and the motor internals right.

Good luck on your build.


Rocky

quote:

Originally posted by ehpantera:
With stock Pantera gearing and 25.6" dia. tires, 7000RPM will give you 179.38 mph according to RBT transmission calculator.

Ah yes. I do this coming out of my driveway. Doesn't everyone?


The lifter bushings are the way to go now for sure. Don't expect any greater longevity out of the engine as a result of them being installed though.

Some people are making the entire Cleveland engine design sound like a major blunder by Ford, they all are defective and they certainly are not?
I would consult with Ford warranty service statistics on that. There were a lot of these engines built by them, maybe a million and it would seem that there wasn't much if any kind of an issue with them until Wyandorff started offering the bushing kit at $400 and everyone on the street thought that they had a Pro Stock engine? Folks, those engines launched at close to 10,000 rpm. Maybe 9,500? Stock blocks, stock iron cranks, aluminum rods. Some modifications to the stock engines were necessary?

It was Gapp & Rousch who first made the first oil restriction kit available for the Cleveland when they started marketing directly some of the products they developed from racing their Pro Stock Pinto in the early '70s. Lifter bushings at the time were something that existed but something few engine builders wanted to offer and even fewer customers wanted to pay for.

My "engine builder" wouldn't do them. Only for a race only engine.

There are lots of Clevelands STILL running around that don't have them. If you have the time and the $400 for the kit and the engine is getting rebuilt, use them. Won't hurt at all but they aren't going to save an engine from failure because of abuse and a bad build.

The Boss 351 as built is thought to be fine for 7,200 rpms, but that really is because of valve train limitations.

In the mean time, just keep the engine under 7,000 rpm and use a good pump. It will help if you get the engine to operating temperatures when you drive the car too. Oil needs to be hotter than boiling temps. 220 F is a good number to shoot at. If you don't you are causing unnecessary wear to the engine from being over cooled.

With the Avaiad 10 quart pan and an oil cooler, my car NEEDS an oil cooler thermostat to restrict the oil cooler from the circuit until is reaches 215 degrees.

Counter point:

Dyno Don, other pro stock racers and some NASCAR teams were using tappet bore bushings by 1973. Ford began offering their "do it yourself kit" by 1974. I purchased one of those very expensive kits about 1976 and used it to install about a half dozen sets of bushings before I threw it away (too dull). My former father-in-law was a machinist and manufactured the bushings for me.

The feeling was if you were going to run solid tappets you needed the bushings. I installed bushings and a solid tappet cam in my daily driver back in 1976 (my first Mach 1 Mustang, a yellow 1971). I kept the cam for about 6 months, decided the drivability wasn't what I wanted, so I pulled the cam and installed a hydraulic tappet cam. The hydraulic tappets worked fine with the bushings.

Fact: Ford knew they had a lubrication problem with the 351C/400; they were replacing bearings under warranty due to low hot oil pressure. These were street driven cars, not race cars. The 400s were all 2 barrel carb motors! I NEVER pulled the lower end of a 351C apart without finding bearing wear, and usually ribbons of babbit laying in the bottom of the oil pan.

Hank Bechtloff (i.e. Hank the Crank) began offering the elaborate lubrication manifold system for modifying the 351C lubrication system beginning 1974, about a year after people had begun using the tappet bore bushings. The gentleman who designed the lubrication manifold told me he designed it because he was opposed to the installation of bushings in the tappet bores for fear they would restrict the amount of oil flowing in the right hand lubrication passage. What is not widely know is that the Hank the Crank 351C lubrication manifold didn’t work as designed in every application; some race teams using his lubrication manifold still experienced bearing failure. The gentleman who designed the lubrication manifold believed the failures stemmed from the fact the manifold's installation was too complicated and the system was re-engineered a few times in an attempt to resolve the installation problems. The Hank the Crank lubrication manifold developed a poor reputation, even the designer gave-up on it. The designer candidly informed me he resorted to making unspecified "internal" modifications to his personal 351C engines. The majority of racing teams standardized on use of tappet bore bushings in the 351C.

There was a heavy duty block with siamesed cylinder bores and thick bulkheads back then, before the Australian block. It was called the SK block, the 366 block, or Bud Moore's block. The drag racers and NASCAR teams with factory connections used them. That was the only way they could get away with reliability at high rpm & high compression. The SK block looked like a production block, intentionally, and nobody admitted to using it, they let everyone believe they were using production blocks.

Well written Geroge. The only way I see not using lifter bore bushings is to use an aftermarket engine block that has priority main oiling system unlike a factory cleveland.

Eddie, the lifter bushings fix two different problems. The first is the enormously oversized oil feed holes; if the lifter bores in your block are at all worn or you happen to select a brand of undersized lifters (not all lifters are stock OD), you will lose LOTS of oil pressure from each of the 16 lifters for each crank revolution. Bushings can fix this.

Second thing bushings do is slightly extend the top of each lifter boss; some 351-C lifter bosses are deeply countersunk- from the factory- so higher lift hydraulic rollers (or flat tappets) can rise up and expose the tops of the lifter oil-bands, and again- 16 massive oil leaks for each crank revolution.

Finally, there are several kinds of rod & main bearings available. One type uses softer babbitt so debris-embeddability increases while the second is a much harder, thinner babbitt surface use for higher performance. This type accepts higher rpms and higher power but absolutely requires clean oil and proper bearing clearances, and also proper wt oil. The oil wt and bearing clearances are interlocked; they both depend on each other being correct.

Speaking of clean oil and oil pressure, running stock umbrella seals on the valves often causes trouble. The "seals" (they really aren't seals) are cheap neoprene which turn into hard plastic when soaked in hot oil. The things then crack from vibration, get washed down into the pan, get sucked into the pump and score the crap out of the soft iron pump body- often, the steel gearotor set too. Scratches lower oil pressure. The chunks also bind up & twist stock mild steel oil pump driveshafts and can break them. Which is why we use 4130-steel oil pump driveshafts and double pins or a dowel pin in the distributor drive gear in place of the stock spring-pin.

Most of this trauma can be avoided by using real oil seals attached to the tops of the valve guides, and by keeping the oil clean; not all 'stock' spin-on filers are equivalent, either. A baffled 10-qt pan is vital as well if you go around corners quickly.

quote:

Originally posted by George P:
Counter point:

Dyno Don, other pro stock racers and some NASCAR teams were using tappet bore bushings by 1973. Ford began offering their "do it yourself kit" by 1974. I purchased one of those very expensive kits about 1976 and used it to install about a half dozen sets of bushings before I threw it away (too dull). My former father-in-law was a machinist and manufactured the bushings for me.

The feeling was if you were going to run solid tappets you needed the bushings. I installed bushings and a solid tappet cam in my daily driver back in 1976 (my first Mach 1 Mustang, a yellow 1971). I kept the cam for about 6 months, decided the drivability wasn't what I wanted, so I pulled the cam and installed a hydraulic tappet cam. The hydraulic tappets worked fine with the bushings.

Fact: Ford knew they had a lubrication problem with the 351C/400; they were replacing bearings under warranty due to low hot oil pressure. These were street driven cars, not race cars. The 400s were all 2 barrel carb motors! I NEVER pulled the lower end of a 351C apart without finding bearing wear, and usually ribbons of babbit laying in the bottom of the oil pan.

Hank Bechtloff (i.e. Hank the Crank) began offering the elaborate lubrication manifold system for modifying the 351C lubrication system beginning 1974, about a year after people had begun using the tappet bore bushings. The gentleman who designed the lubrication manifold told me he designed it because he was opposed to the installation of bushings in the tappet bores for fear they would restrict the amount of oil flowing in the right hand lubrication passage. What is not widely know is that the Hank the Crank 351C lubrication manifold didn’t work as designed in every application; some race teams using his lubrication manifold still experienced bearing failure. The gentleman who designed the lubrication manifold believed the failures stemmed from the fact the manifold's installation was too complicated and the system was re-engineered a few times in an attempt to resolve the installation problems. The Hank the Crank lubrication manifold developed a poor reputation, even the designer gave-up on it. The designer candidly informed me he resorted to making unspecified "internal" modifications to his personal 351C engines. The majority of racing teams standardized on use of tappet bore bushings in the 351C.

There was a heavy duty block with siamesed cylinder bores and thick bulkheads back then, before the Australian block. It was called the SK block, the 366 block, or Bud Moore's block. The drag racers and NASCAR teams with factory connections used them. That was the only way they could get away with reliability at high rpm & high compression. The SK block looked like a production block, intentionally, and nobody admitted to using it, they let everyone believe they were using production blocks.

Sure. All racing modifications. Lifter bushings have been in a lot of race cars as well as various forms of oil passage restrictions in the block. So?

The lifter bushings are an improvement for sure. They will increase your oil pressure at the main bearings. So will a high volume oil pump. If an engine, any engine only needs 10 psi per 1,000 rpm, the math is simple with an 80 psi pump? It doesn't matter how much leakage there is as long as the bearing lubrication is sufficient.

Ford thought they had a problem with the 427 center oil block as well. Introduced the side oiler as a fix. Actually, fix is the wrong word. The Center oiler isn't a defective design, but sure it could be improved for over 7,000 rpm operation, just as most blocks can, and certainly the Cleveland can as well.

Full grooved mains, high volume oil pump, and change your oil once in a while is all you need on the street, unless maybe you like to launch at 7,500 rpm at the red light? Wouldn't be the first time I've seen that.

If it makes you happy to install the bushings in a street car, do it but don't expect the engine to last any longer with them. They are essentially an over 7,000 rpm safety factor.

There are a lot of 351c engine owners here. Take a survey about how many engine failures there have been because of oiling problems to the mains. Hint: don't place heavy bets on a lot of failures.

Rumors of a high main bearing failure while new means nothing without the Ford documentation. It would also be helpful to consider the rate as compared to other engine lines as well.

quote:

#4. I am also worried that the machine shop might have turned my crank wrong, I did not like the way the con rods looked either , after they resized them, the notch that holds the bearing seemed a lot smaller? so I was thinking of just getting a scat 393 stroker kit since it comes with the crank,rods,and pistons, there really isn't any good" machine shops here anymore, the good ones all retired and sold their shops, so the next question is if I get the 393 kit does the block need any other machining other than a fresh bore?

I'm concerned you found taper in the crank journals after machining.

It is a sad reflection on things these days but you have to check everything yourself, you can't depend on machine shops or manufacturers to get it right, you must measure all parts from whatever source to be sure of them.

If you don't already have them i suggest you buy some micrometers and learn to use them so you can check things yourself.

I couldn't put a engine together without micrometers.

There is no guarantee the Scat stroker kit or any other will be 100% correct either.

quote:

There is no guarantee the Scat stroker kit or any other will be 100% correct either.

I agree check everything. Its the only way to be sure fitment is correct. On a side note, I am building a 331 stroker (302) for a friend using a scat rotating assembly kit. I measured everything and its dead on. Not that this would prevent me from checking everything on the next build. Trust but verify. LOL

Thanks for all your help, and no I did not have mic's when putting the motor together (should have) but this is why we took it back to the machine shop, who supposedly mic'd it and said it was fine, your right , you just cant trust people anymore the work ethic is gone now. I was and am still running a melling high volume oil pump, the 1st time we took it apart we had a high volume oil pump in it and the bearings were badly worn with only around 2 or 3 thousand miles, I wont know about the crank until I take it apart again, just to clarify the 1st time we took it apart was only because we didn't like the oil psi, the car ran fine but it did have a slight vibration when revved but only at around 2,000 rpm then it went away. The crank and rods were then taken back to the machine shop and the owner was amazed at the condition of the bearings , and re-checked everything, and then gave us different bearings, now im not saying I know for sure if its because I didn't have the cam and lifter bushings, it might be because of the machine shop who by the way had a very good reputation and had been here for thirty years or more, I wont know till its torn down, then I will mic the stuff myself, the car is still running I am just paranoid about throwing a rod or messing it up further so I don't drive it much at all. I will not tear it down until I have a good idea of what I need or should do to it, and after I have got some parts for it first like roller cam and maybe change the intake, I have seen some of your guy's cars and motors and they are all very nice! I have been reading the other oil topic and some other motor builds so I can have a clear understanding of what to do. I have rebuilt motors before but mainly chevy stuff, this was the 1st ford I have done, but I love the Cleveland motor and wont give up on getting this right, I have worked on fords like 292's, 312's, 390's and so on and every motor seems a little different, actually I helped rebuild a 292-y block and that was really different (you have to put the lifters in 1st then cam and crank) but all my work was years ago and after the last Cleveland build I have not rebuilt another motor so im pretty rusty now, and especially with the Cleveland I will probly be asking you guys a lot of questions when I start, hope you guys don't get tired of answering stupid questions! thank s for all the help !!!!!

Some of this work sort of depends on how anal you want to get and exactly how bad your current block is. Not all 44-yr-old 351C blocks are useable for Hi-Po engines! Home-installing lifter bushings uses a piloted drill that guides off the original worn bore. If that bore is off very much, then your bushing will also be- and maybe more so. But if a good shop puts in your bushings, they will use Wydendorf's expensive jig that locates new lifter bores off the main bearings, not piloted off the old worn bores. Thus you get corrected bores, not bronze duplicates of what you already have. Also be aware there are at least three different 'bronze' materials commonly used for lifter bushings. Some work better than others with different types of lifters.

On the MMC website in Delaware is a NOS, never-assembled real Boss-351 block that was completely profiled on a measuring machine (measurements accompany photo), and virtually every surface was off to some extent from factory blueprint dimensions. This is what you expect from a production block. Used blocks shift their surfaces a little with use and can be better.... or worse. How far do you want to go?

quote:

Originally posted by Bosswrench:
Some of this work sort of depends on how anal you want to get and exactly how bad your current block is. Not all 44-yr-old 351C blocks are useable for Hi-Po engines! Home-installing lifter bushings uses a piloted drill that guides off the original worn bore. If that bore is off very much, then your bushing will also be- and maybe more so. But if a good shop puts in your bushings, they will use Wydendorf's expensive jig that locates new lifter bores off the main bearings, not piloted off the old worn bores. Thus you get corrected bores, not bronze duplicates of what you already have. Also be aware there are at least three different 'bronze' materials commonly used for lifter bushings. Some work better than others with different types of lifters.

On the MMC website in Delaware is a NOS, never-assembled real Boss-351 block that was completely profiled on a measuring machine (measurements accompany photo), and virtually every surface was off to some extent from factory blueprint dimensions. This is what you expect from a production block. Used blocks shift their surfaces a little with use and can be better.... or worse. How far do you want to go?

Yes, the dimensions vary quite a bit. I have a pair of 68 302 4v iron heads that I installed larger than stock valves in.

They wound up with 1.94/1.60's simply because of the two heads, at least one cylinder in each (two in one head)the center line of the valve stems was off enough not to permit 2.02's in all cylinders. In some there would have been about .060" between the valves, in others the intake would have overlapped the exhaust by about. 030".

I've also been told that the cylinder bores in the blocks are USUALLY not centered properly in relation to the crankshaft journals. I haven't seen that, but then again, I didn't look for it either.

Blueprinted engines always were more expensive to build and the kicker is, they don't necessarily run better or make more power?

quote:

Originally posted by Bosswrench:
Home-installing lifter bushings uses a piloted drill that guides off the original worn bore. If that bore is off very much, then your bushing will also be- and maybe more so.

But if a good shop puts in your bushings, they will use Wydendorf's expensive jig that locates new lifter bores off the main bearings, not piloted off the old worn bores.

Thus you get corrected bores, not bronze duplicates of what you already have. Also be aware there are at least three different 'bronze' materials commonly used for lifter bushings. Some work better than others with different types of lifters.

Yes, personally if i wanted lifter bore bushings i would prefer the lifter bores to be machined out using a milling machine in a machine shop.

I know that many people have successfully fitted bore bushings using the Wydendorf hand tools but i have to say using hand reamers, even piloted ones, is not really a task for the novice.

The lifter bores need to be exactly over the centerline of the camshaft and as Bosswrench says if the bores are worn, or not in the right place to begin with, then the efforts of someone of limited experience using hand reamers will result in new bores that simply follow the old bores inaccuracies or possibly be even further misaligned.

That would result in premature camshaft failures.

I would even be very wary about using hand tools to enlarge the lifter bores myself.

But of course it does come back to finding a "good" machine shop to bore them out using a mill and do a accurate job.

Maybe so, however, I know one, money no object Pantera racer, who had a lifter bushing rise off it's seat and conclude his race weekend. The exercise adds to the possible things that can go wrong. These were installed by a reputable shop as well.

If my engine comes out again and I am not under a time crunch, I definitely will consider it. Probably will come down to whether or not I have the $400 available.

Considering the things that could go wrong might be why there was a reluctance by my "builder" to do my block.

He, unlike me, has built hundreds of Clevelands. I seem to remember him saying, "why? Why do you need them?" Kind of like when you ask your doctor about something and you get a similar answer but he doesn't explain why, so you don't probe deeper because the answer might be upsetting and it should only be on a need to know basis.



First I NEVER heard of a bushing coming out but I know you need to hone the bushing for clearance to the lifter after you are pressed in? I don't know how the heat at high rpm affects the lifter to bushing clearances?



I suppose you pay your money and you takes yours chances?

Maybe at this point it would be a better gamble to save that money, sell your block and buy an aftermarket race block for it?



I know of one of the original Ford Aluminum blocks that was purchased from Don Nicholson. It has the bushings in it. Just seem to be pressed in. No pinning of any kind.

The story I was told on that block was that Ford GAVE Nicholson four aluminum blocks and this was the only one left he didn't blow up?

They have 68 engineering casting numbers in them and it is said they were made for Ford's "Indy" program.



I saw another that came from Gap&Roush that the lifter gallery had to be welded up on to repair it. Now you have me wondering if it was because a bushing came out at 9,500 rpm and keeping the bushings in place is somewhat of an issue in these engines?



Talked to my engine builder about the bushings. Apparently, even though the bushings are pressed in and you use Loctite stud and bearing locker on them, the motion of the lifters can loosen the bushings, pushing them up and out of the lifter bore?

It depends on the rpm and how long they are run at high rpm. So the answer is, yes they help main bearing oil pressure but they have to be checked periodically that they are staying put.

So they need to be considered as a racing modification since a race engine gets torn down more than a street engine.

The question is how long they will stay in place on a street engine, but on a street engine you don't need them. Kinda like a dog chasing his tail or Abbott & Costello's "Who's on first?"



Got to go dig and pry to see what else I can find? Sometimes it pays to be a PITA and start controversy? You turn up information that was never discussed by the racers before?


Here is a picture of the Ford aluminum Cleveland block (said to be out of the Ford Indy program in '68). You can see the damage in the lifter area of cylinder #1.

These engines all had lifter bushings installed in them. This one looks like one came loose and damaged the block? Of course there is room for other interpretations, i.e., a meteor from Mars hit it, shrapnel from the battleship Missouri shelling caused collateral damages, etc, etc. I vote for the simplest explanation.