My first autocross

Man, that looked like FUN!
Looked like you were able to stay in 2nd the whole time.

Yup. I rode with Rick in his Lambo and he found the same thing. The track is too slow to require an upshift, and the turns too fast to allow time for an effective downshift.

Great job, Pantera's do well in autocrossing. I've race mine alot for the last five years. And your right second gear is all I use even to start because it's a rolling start. I've finished second two years in a row in my class (Sports A) to the same guy in a Honda 2000. We split the wins but he always seams to out point me for the year. After one race a young teenager came up to me and asked me what year my car was when I told him it was a 71 he thought about it for a minute then looked at me and said "Shit I just got my ass kicked by a car older than my dad." It was funny, he was bummed. Great job and keep racing thier is nothing on your car that can't be fixed if it breaks and they need to be driven.

That's great! The problem with breaking something isn't that it can't be fixed, its that the funds need to be approved by the domestic CFO. She approved funds for re-painting the engine bay and transmission last year after a broken clutch hose spraid clutch fluid all over the painted engine bay, so I was told if I broke anything else soon, there might be a wait.... You know, kids going to college, graduation presents, vacations, that kind of stuff is in the queue first...

In which case I would have to sit in the car in the garage while I made engine noises and pretended to be driving the autocross :-)

I understand the CFO thing I didn't get my car until my youngest graduated from collage. Luckly my wife really enjoys the car and even drives it when we are on open roads. She isn't afraid to push it all, but it is hard to sit in the right seat and keep my mouth shut.

Very cool. Looked like fun. It is amazing for your first time how close your time was to your buddies Lambo. Awesome.

Devin

I can never do them. Here they are always done in a parking lot and I can never see the course because it is marked out in just cones.

The other thing is I am not accustomed to having to drive with a helmet.

IF you get into second gear you are really rockin.



They are usually first gear screamers here and the course is so tight that only a bugeyed sprite or an MG Midget can get through it.

911's seem to do well in them but if your wheelbase is any bigger that that to me there's no sense.

I think to do well on them, it is like being of a road race coarse and you need to know the course and practice on them before there is any time trials?

I do remember there were always a few Panteras at them 35 years ago.



I haven't seen one posted in years. They kept moving them farther and farther away because it got to hard to get permission to use them because of the event liability insurance.

The last one I did was at Stuart Air Force Base in Newburg, NY. It was no easier to drive since it was on one of the runways and marked out with chalk and orange cones.

I would always be off course because I couldn't follow it.

Drag racing was easier to follow the course for me!



The thing you really want to do is get on a real race course.

The newer ones like Millwood in NJ or Virginia International are really nice and because the pavement is all new it doesn't beat up the car.

Shorter course like Lime Rock are fun too but not only are they shorter but they are narrower.

The key is being able to practice on them first.
You don't need to follow some plastic cones or chaulk on the pavement to see the course.



If you want to drive the car anywhere near what it is capable of that's where you want to go.

Look for car events that post any cars are welcome. Clubs rarely can fill up all of the available spots and need to pay for the track for the day so they usually welcome other brands.



You want to stay off of courses that have banked turns your first time out. Those need some time to get used to driving on and feel very alien.

I remember being at one where everyone was afraid to run the car up high on the banking.
Bob Bonduraunt was there and just jumped into a new Aurora and rode it right up on the guardrail flat out with a passenger. For the Aurora that was around 125 mph.



The Pantera is generally very stable at that speed (100 to 150)and very easy to drive even as a novice. 150 is about where you start to feel the car get twitchy because of aerodynamics but it certainly will go to around 175 on flat straightaways.

The nose can suddenly lift there and the steering will get suddenly light. That's a little spooky for me.

The nose needs help at that speed and I found that the little GTS front spoiler does help some.

You need to be judicious with the throttle also over about 120. The car can suddenly show it's rear balance bias and instantaneously loose it's manners.



Even so it is about 25 mph faster under the same circumstances as my Shelby but the Shelby seems to be going 175 at 100 mph whereas the Pantera is really very smooth and quiet in the cabin relatively speaking.

Neither car lends itself well to the typical autocross set ups here that I ATTEMPTED to run in.



I tend to over use the clutch in them and have no desire to keep putting clutches in the car for no reason. The autocrosses for me are not fun at all.

quote:

Originally posted by duz185:
Yup. I rode with Rick in his Lambo and he found the same thing. The track is too slow to require an upshift, and the turns too fast to allow time for an effective downshift.

Judy & I autocrossed for 10 years in N CA, and we found the same thing. With a slightly modified engine, I had enough revs to use 1st but the torque made the car too jumpy; 2nd was better.
Autocross is also known as 'advanced drivers training' and it certainly made me a smoother driver. 'Cause if I got loose & hit a pylon, Judy would beat me! Then I heard about it until the next event.

Great info! Thanks guys.

-William

I don't remember having to wear a helmet when I drove a few autocrosses back in college (1974-8)
seems like a little over board for a roofed car in a parking lot

Definitely a helmet was required but it was before they looked for the Snell numbers like they do now.

I remember the commotion that my $10 speed shop motorcycle helmet caused at the first SAAC convention at Pocono.

It was the same kind of helmet that Dan Gurney used with the little clip on sun visor and all.

I figured if it was good enough for him it was good enough for me. It was the last high speed event it was permitted at.

After that it was a $200 helmet with a current Snell number.

I've got competition seat belts in the car also.



If the car was CAPABLE of going over a certain speed, those belts were required along with a ROLL BAR!

The insurance requirements and all the lawyers running around with cameras really killed the autocrosses here.

Never really saw an incident because the course was set up so tight you couldn't get out of first gear and go fast enough to have a problem.

It really just killed all the enjoyment. Obviously enjoyment was not to be permitted.



I haven't even heard of one being held here in more that 20 years. I'm sure they are still around somewhere, but I have't seen them.

Also had to do with CT and NY changing the "blue laws" that permitted businesses to be open on Sunday.

In the '70s they could not be open here on Sunday.

After all, almost all were held in big shopping center parking lots on Sundays.



They should have just hired your former third grade teacher to make you stand in line single file and keep saying in a stern voice, NO TALKING!

Everything just seems to get beaten to death here to kill any possible enjoyment anyone could possibly get out of these events?

In the 20 years Judy & I were members of a small but dedicated autocross club in the S.F. Bay area, we had several incidents that pointed out the need for helmets: a car rolling twice when the driver exceeded his skill-level, a couple of others sheared lug bolts and sent a rear wheel flying hard enough to damage a chain-link fence (which we had to fix). SCCA had a driver killed at one of their autocrosses in So-Cal.

You're correct- lawyers killed autocrossing- along with a lack of self-preservation by participants. Parking lot owners used to let autocrossers use their lots free on Sunday when businesses were normally closed; then for a nominal charge, then for a LARGE charge, then only with proof of club liability insurance. When businesses started staying open Sundays, and the required insurance went up to 5 MILLION dollars (sometimes more) for an 8-hr event, most of the small autocross clubs disbanded.

In Europe with vastly different laws, you can still take Mom's van out on the Nurburgring's Nordschleif without a helmet or seat belts and with multiple passengers. No helmets or Tech inspections were required when the Swedish Pantera Club staged an event during a Factory visit at a F-1 Italian race track in the '90s. They got lucky that time when a group of Brits in their Panteras took off the wrong way onto the track at high speed, ignoring the frantic pit-marshals. They were used to circulating in the opposite direction on English tracks from the rest of Europe....

20 years? Wow. I gave up in a couple.

I just stick my fingers in rotating fans now for enjoyment.

quote:

Originally posted by Bosswrench:

You're correct- lawyers killed autocrossing- ..

Bummer! Still going strong here... knock on wood!

They do check the tires, wheels, engine bay, battery, and helmet. You have to take everything out of the car that is loose, including floor mats.

I meant what I said about participants with no sense of self-preservation helping to kill autocrossing. I ran our Club's Tech inspections during that time (sometimes 200 cars per event) and the s... that showed up on the pre-grid would bring tears to the eyes of any motorhead. I'm not talking about detail-infractions either!

Sections of old garden hose spliced into high-pressure oil coolers using iron pipe fittings, 4 lug nuts on 5-lug wheels, slick racing tires that were audibly leaking air during inspection, brake hoses that had been dragging on oversized tires so long you could count the layers of cord in the hose construction. One guy showed up with a helmet his father had used when he was single. I pointed out that our regs said it had to have a Snell sticker-date and his helmet was from before the time Pete Snell was killed while wearing one just like it.... I should have had a voice recorder for the excuses I heard for the awful car conditions. And the scary part was, it was a 40 mile freeway drive out to the site and these rolling trash heaps were not trailered.