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New Chassis?

C cribbjMember
Hello everyone, I'm quite new here but have received a warm welcome for my intro thread over in the engine subforum:
http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/...0045562/m/9771047795

I'm going to start searching for a project car, however I wonder if it might not be better to cut the topsides off an existing car with a rotted chassis, and graft them onto a contemporary chassis such as those made by either Factory Five or Racecar Replicas?

I understand the wheelbase of the Pantera is 99" with front & rear tracks of 57 & 58 inches, and a width of 70 inches and a length of 158 inches?

That's not too far off from the GT40 replicas which have wheelbases of 95 to 96 inches, front & rear tracks of 57 & 58 like the Pantera, a width of 70 inches (like the Pantera), and OAL of 165 inches.

So perhaps a slightly stretched GT40 chassis could work? Obviously the body attachment points, interior, fuel tanks, cooling, etc. would be slightly different.

I also understand at least one full tube chassis Pantera was built in the past, so I'm guessing something like this is "possible". Perhaps not very economical or practical, but apparently it has been accomplished? I've searched this forum and found some tantalizing tidbits of information, but either I'm not using quite the right search terms, or there's not a lot of detail about these chassis swaps.

I'm not too concerned about trying to replicate the original interior, however I'd really like to keep the exterior dimensions, shape & proportions close. To me, the Pantera has one of those timeless classic shapes, which is very difficult to improve upon, but VERY easy to damage or destroy if the proportions weren't just right.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts & advise.

John
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C Candy2862 (Guest)
I think you should talk to Larry Stock or Dennis Quella.
Keep us informed, I think it is a tremendous project, however you probably won't be able to race the car someday in an " official" race. It is a " just for fun" project, which should be capital intensive, but all sports cost money.... ( and i know what I'm talking about ! )
Patrick
Candy 2862 - ADA 9628
C cribbjMember
@ Garth, thanks for the heads up on the fiberglass bodies. Would those be the Long & Newman ones? I've just sent an email off to try to contact Tony Newman to see if he can point me in the right direction.

@ Patrick, what a great car you have, and how right you are about these projects and the $$$ that go into them.

In addition to this bimmer V12, I've been playing with supercharging a couple of Lexus V8's for a few years; hopefully they'll eventually go into Toyota Supras whenever I get tired of blowing them up on the engine dyno. These haven't been cheap to develop 'cause Lexus' motors were never intended to do anything but make a bit of torque and do it smoothly and quietly, sort of like the bimmer. It's been a real trick to get these motors' heads opened up and breathing well above 5000 RPM, but I think we're just about there.

The latest acquisition is a 550 Maranello that I'm trying to make "just" a bit stronger & faster, but not turn into a full hotrod. But F-cars are just insanely expensive to mod.
joulesjoules"Racing is Life, anything before or after is just waiting" - Steve McQueen
John,

Larry Stock at PPC (Pantera Parts Connection) Carson City has two or three containers of fiberglasss molds, everything from panels to complete bodies for Pantera and Mangusta and even a couple already cast bodies. I understand at least some of the molds are the L&N originals.

Only a month or so ago there was full L&N chasssis on Ebay, I cannot recall if it sold or not. Les Gray (Guitarman) either worked for L&N or was involved in the L&N Pantera's, maybe drop him a PM.

As stated Dennis Quella of PPC (Pantera Performance Center) Colorado has a tube chassis race car as does Jerry Sacket at PI Motorsporst, Oange County CA. They would both be good resources to tap into.

Here's a link to a Hot Rod article on Jerry's car.
http://www.hotrod.com/featured...o_pantera/index.html

There's a BMW (V8) powered Pantera in Sweden, one thing about the short stroke european motors they always sound awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4g6-ewavbU

I toyed with the idea of dropping a Cosworth V8 into a Pantera, more 'in keeping' with the Blue Oval, but 13-15 hrs between rebuilds is hard on the check book. Maybe I'll resurrect it one day....

Good luck,
Julian
C cribbjMember
Wow, thanks for that Julian. I thought a Mangusta body would be too much to hope for. IMO, the Mangusta platform is really a better fit for this than the Pantera, but I felt my chances of finding one were somewhere between slim and the square root of SFA. The Mangusta has that refined look of a GT that goes well with the V12, while the Pantera is just begging to be turned loose with a big torquey motor to go destroy some pavement.

I'll get in touch with Larry about those bodies.

Thanks,

John
bosswrenchbosswrenchMember
Larry Stock has a complete fiberglas Mangusta body already made, plus the molds necessary to make others. The molds are multi-piece so extra doors, hoods and rear decks are also possible for both Mangustas and Panteras. He even has molds for interior parts like dashboards and rear upholstery panels. FWIW, building a decent racing frame is not as complicated as building a good looking body to fit onto it, IMHO. There are several race shops that could scratch-build a frame, depending on what you're plans are.
As far as the GT-40 connection, one of the original GT-40 service shops in Switzerland when the GT-40s were actively racing (Sbarro), built a few clones using rusty Panteras as the base. Never actually seen one but supposedly they used the entire Pantera floor & front/rear subframes, with custom upper bracing for replica GT-40 bodies. Ford set up service shops in Germany, England & Switzerland to rebuild crash damage, engines etc during the '65-'68 period.
cuveecuveeMember
Just a thought?

One of members on this Forum (AMX/3) Is putting together a replica AMX3. I believe they stretched the body 2". Might fit the V12? We haven't heard much about it in a while? Maybe do a search here and check it out, its pretty good looking! I know its not a Pantera or a Mangusta but still pretty cool!

Once again, just a thought? burn rubber
C cribbjMember
quote:
Originally posted by Cuvee:
Just a thought?

One of members on this Forum (AMX/3) Is putting together a replica AMX3. I believe they stretched the body 2". Might fit the V12? We haven't heard much about it in a while? Maybe do a search here and check it out, its pretty good looking! I know its not a Pantera or a Mangusta but still pretty cool!

Once again, just a thought? burn rubber


Thanks, yes I've been in touch with him (Tom D.), and his progress has been slowed down due to lack of funding. He's hoping to get his glass & interior issues sorted soon and should have some good progress to report.

The AMX/3 is an alternative body design that I really liked early on, and still do, but I just don't know that enough parts are available for it.

Fran Hall of RCR sent me a couple of quickie messages yesterday and said to count him out. He felt that adapting any of his chassis (GT40 or SLC) to an existing Pantera body would be prohibitively more expensive than just picking up a clean Pantera for the swap. Since he's a Pantera owner, as well as being in the business of custom built cars, it's probably good advise, although I'm disappointed. So it looks like my choices probably are:

1) Find a fairly clean project car, get any rust issues sorted, swap its powertrain over to mine, and get all the mechanicals & interior spruced up.

2) Get a tube chassis car built with a fiberglass body.

While #1 is probably the safer choice, I can feel #2 drawing me in due to the possibility of the Mangusta body. Isn't that how the sirens of Greek mythology used to lure ships and sailors onto the rocks, with their beautiful voices and bodies? Smiler
deniscdeniscCaretaker of 8MA1244 '70 Euro Mangusta DRIVE THEM, THEY WERE MEANT TO BE DRIVEN, IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT ONE, BUY A POSTER!
BJ, Lilo Zicron is currently racing a Mangusta. I have not seen the car in person, but the pics seem to show a relatively stock frame. I have talked to someone in his crew about a Lola body and found them very cooperative, give them a shout you may be very surprised. Also I knew of a heavily reinforced Mangusta body a while back. It may still be around.

quote:
Originally posted by garth66:
Lilo Zicron of Toluca Lake Classic Motorsports ( http://www.tlcmotorsport.com/) is running his 1970 Mangusta in Group 5A at the Monterey Historic Races in August.
C cribbjMember
Have had several emails with Kirk Evans now, and he seems pretty enthused with this idea. His biggest concerns are finding suitable trim pieces to make the car streetable.

I've noticed that glass for the Mangusta seems to be nonexistent? Hmmm. I figured it wouldn't be quite as simple as ordering a windshield for it from the local Lincoln-Mercury dealer, but I figured someone in the aftermarket probably had a solution for glass, weather seals, etc. But if only slightly more than 400 of these cars were made, the demand is probably waaaayyy low. But is it possible DeTomaso could have used a windshield from another car for the Mangusta?

Kirk suggests finding a salvage donor car and using it for parts (and its S/N plate) while building the composite version. Wonder how likely finding a salvage Mangusta is going to be? Perhaps there's one lurking out there that's in really rough shape and too far gone to bring back and could be used for body parts? Anyone?
joulesjoules"Racing is Life, anything before or after is just waiting" - Steve McQueen
John,

Windshields are not the problem, Larry Stock has reproductions, it's the Mangusta side and hatch glass that is pretty non existent. Previously there have been a couple of specialist and one off maufactureers mentioned in the Mangusta community, althouygh maybe you could consider lexan on your build? Larry Stock's business is a combined Pantere Parts and Polymer Plastics, he formed me some front quarters for the Pantera out of lexan.


There have been a few project Geese sold in recent years, but they are a rare animal and values have risen over the time too. There was one avid buyer Jerry (Mangustaman) in Tempe, AZ that was bought up a few projects at one point (The Tahoe disassembled project and the rusty shell from the East Coast). I think he ended up with at least four Mangusta's, so he may be worth dropping a PM.

Julian
Last edited by joules
C cribbjMember
quote:
Originally posted by Joules5:
John,

Windshields are not the problem, Larry Stock has reproductions, it's the Mangusta side and hatch glass that is pretty non existent. Previously there have been a couple of specialist and one off maufactureers mentioned in the Mangusta community, althouygh maybe you could consider lexan on your build? Larry Stock's business is a combined Pantere Parts and Polymer Plastics, he formed me some front quarters for the Pantera out of lexan.


There have been a few project Geese sold in recent years, but they are a rare animal and values have risen over the time too. There was one avid buyer Jerry (Mangustaman) in Tempe, AZ that was bought up a few projects at one point (The Tahoe disassembled project and the rusty shell from the East Coast). I think he ended up with at least four Mangusta's, so he may be worth dropping a PM.

Julian


PM sent to Mangustaman and thanks for that tidbit about the windshields. That's a relief to know - the nonavailability of a windshield could be a real showstopper for a street build. I suppose Lexan could be a solution for the other fixed panels, but some real autoglass would be nicer for the side windows.

quote:
Originally posted by Candy2862:
Mangusta in rough shape : http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrze...lang=en&pageNumber=1
I spoke with the owner, he said resto would take one year , but the car is complete. It's been sitting there for a couple of months
Pat


Thanks Pat, could you PM me the owner's contact details?
C cribbjMember
Just a little update.

I've been in touch with Larry Stock, and although he's not built a full Mangusta body yet, he's game to give it a go. His molds have never been used however, so they'll require some reconditioning. Anyone else want/need a Mangusta body? If the cost can be spread around, it won't be quite so bad. At the moment, to do just one, he estimated around $15K, which is about double what a GT40 body runs.

Kirk Evans has a complete rolling Pantera chassis for sale that has a BBF and ZF already in it. He designed & built it for an open top car, so it would need to be modded in several areas.

I think the best way to go will be a purpose built spaceframe chassis, and we'll probably use either a lot of 'Vette parts on the suspension, or go to the GT40 suppliers and use their bits.

I'm still in the feasibility stage with this, and my spreadsheet still has too many blanks in it to say whether it'll be a go or not. "Glass Goose" is definitely a catchy title for the project, though.

Still looking for someone who might already have a 'glass bodied Mangusta or Pantera to tap their expertise. Have sent mail to TLC, PI and 1-2 others, but no replies as yet. I'm currently in the Sahara, but as soon as I get back to the US, I'll start working the phones.

John
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