Can anyone share the approximate cost to have the stock, 4:22 ratio, ring and pinion gear replaced in dash 2 including the cost of the new parts?
Thanks,
Joel
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Joel,
It will cost a lot! Why do you want to change the ring and pinon? If you want more top end, the taller fifth gear may be a less expensive way to go without giving up acceleration associated with a 3.77 ring and pinon. Lloyd Butfoy is the guru at RBT, he can tell you all you want to know. I believe Wilkinson works on the boxes and other vendors probably do as well. I believe they all get their parts from Lloyd. Two years ago, I spent four grand at RBT to get a new, polished case, a new second gear synchro and the tall, .642, fifth gear. Please let us know what it costs to do the ring and pinon, I would recommend that you be sitting down when you get the quote
Art
It will cost a lot! Why do you want to change the ring and pinon? If you want more top end, the taller fifth gear may be a less expensive way to go without giving up acceleration associated with a 3.77 ring and pinon. Lloyd Butfoy is the guru at RBT, he can tell you all you want to know. I believe Wilkinson works on the boxes and other vendors probably do as well. I believe they all get their parts from Lloyd. Two years ago, I spent four grand at RBT to get a new, polished case, a new second gear synchro and the tall, .642, fifth gear. Please let us know what it costs to do the ring and pinon, I would recommend that you be sitting down when you get the quote
Art
Art,
I am completely satisfied with the gearing in my ZF, stock final drive and a stock 5th. My problems is I have a whine in my ZF that is driving me crazy. I think it is typical to have some of this sort of noise during deceleration, however mine whines steadily and is most pronounced around 2500 RPM. It also makes somewhat less of a whining sound on acceleration. It reminds me of the sound that straight gears make from gearboxes and rear ends from the old days. I've ridden in many Panteras and have not heard one as noisy as mine. Lloyd serviced the gearbox for me last year and reset the gear lash at that time. Still the noise persists. I can think of no other alternative than to try and change out the gear set. If anyone else has a thought, I'm sure willing to listen.
Joel
I am completely satisfied with the gearing in my ZF, stock final drive and a stock 5th. My problems is I have a whine in my ZF that is driving me crazy. I think it is typical to have some of this sort of noise during deceleration, however mine whines steadily and is most pronounced around 2500 RPM. It also makes somewhat less of a whining sound on acceleration. It reminds me of the sound that straight gears make from gearboxes and rear ends from the old days. I've ridden in many Panteras and have not heard one as noisy as mine. Lloyd serviced the gearbox for me last year and reset the gear lash at that time. Still the noise persists. I can think of no other alternative than to try and change out the gear set. If anyone else has a thought, I'm sure willing to listen.
Joel
I believe that I was quoted $2,900 for the ring and pinion and $900 for each gear. I forget what the synchros were, maybe $400 each?
That's just the parts, no labor.
Check your fluid level in the ZF. Whining of gears can be a low level.
Whining from the cabin is usually the driver when he gets the rebuild bill.
That's just the parts, no labor.
Check your fluid level in the ZF. Whining of gears can be a low level.
Whining from the cabin is usually the driver when he gets the rebuild bill.
Joel,
What about running heavier oil like 140? You might want to check with Lloyd before doing that. Any chance that what you are hearing is something else? Maybe something less expensive?
Art
What about running heavier oil like 140? You might want to check with Lloyd before doing that. Any chance that what you are hearing is something else? Maybe something less expensive?
Art
Joel,
You say the whine is most pronounced at 2500 rpm, but in what gear? Or is the whining the same in all gears?
This could be a good clue to the issue because the ring and pinion (final drive) set is rotating at a different speed in each gear for the same rpm, so if it whines at 2500 rpm in all gears it is less likely to be a ring and pinion issue.
I hear that the gear thrust washers are often the cause of whining and that 5th is most prone to having too much play requiring re-shimming.
You say the whine is most pronounced at 2500 rpm, but in what gear? Or is the whining the same in all gears?
This could be a good clue to the issue because the ring and pinion (final drive) set is rotating at a different speed in each gear for the same rpm, so if it whines at 2500 rpm in all gears it is less likely to be a ring and pinion issue.
I hear that the gear thrust washers are often the cause of whining and that 5th is most prone to having too much play requiring re-shimming.
Wow, good questions all! I change the gear oil annually and have just done that. This time I switched from my normal Castrol 80w/90 and used a mixture of Redline 75/90 (two thirds) and 75/140 (one third). This did reduce the whine slightly.
I notice the whine mostly in 5th gear, although it is present in other gears as well. I will recheck this to confirm.
My sense is that most folks would tell me just to ignore the noise and get on with life. Perhaps I am too much of a perfectionist, but I just can't stand it. I would love the solution to be something other than an expensive ring and pinion replacement. Help!!!
Joel
I notice the whine mostly in 5th gear, although it is present in other gears as well. I will recheck this to confirm.
My sense is that most folks would tell me just to ignore the noise and get on with life. Perhaps I am too much of a perfectionist, but I just can't stand it. I would love the solution to be something other than an expensive ring and pinion replacement. Help!!!
Joel
Joel,
is it possible that you are hearing a resonance from something? If it is present around a narrow rpm range (2500 +/- 100) in all gears but just more easily heard in fifth, it could be from a loosened component of even sheet metal.
Just a thought.
Glenn
is it possible that you are hearing a resonance from something? If it is present around a narrow rpm range (2500 +/- 100) in all gears but just more easily heard in fifth, it could be from a loosened component of even sheet metal.
Just a thought.
Glenn
Glenn, That is entirely possible. I just don't know how to check it. I thought at one time it might a resonance created by the deck lid. I had occasion to drive the car without the deck lid and the noise was still there. This gearbox has less that 50,000 miles on it total. Wouldn't it be odd for it to have enough ring and pinion wear to warrant a noise of this type?
Joel
Joel
Figure 3000.00 for a ring and pinion and another 800.00 labor to put it in. There will also be some other costs like gaskets, ring gear bolts & safety wire....Then there is always the unexpected $$$$ once inside.
Gear clusters, 800.00 each. Syncro rings, steel 280.00 each, ( bronze, 150.00 each from Dennis Quealla)
I just recently had to replace my ring & pinion. Somewhere down the line before I got my current ZF, somebody used a after market ring & pinion that came from Marino. The spec's were not right on the ring & pinion the Marino had made and sold. As a result, they chew each other up. I caught mine in time so It didn't do any other damage. But God forbid had it came apart under speed. It would have been all about a new ZF at 9 grand.
You might also want to call and talk to Dennis Quella at Pantera Performance. He's just as good as Lloyd with the ZF and really a great guy. He was with me every step of the way when I rebuilt mine.
Gear clusters, 800.00 each. Syncro rings, steel 280.00 each, ( bronze, 150.00 each from Dennis Quealla)
I just recently had to replace my ring & pinion. Somewhere down the line before I got my current ZF, somebody used a after market ring & pinion that came from Marino. The spec's were not right on the ring & pinion the Marino had made and sold. As a result, they chew each other up. I caught mine in time so It didn't do any other damage. But God forbid had it came apart under speed. It would have been all about a new ZF at 9 grand.
You might also want to call and talk to Dennis Quella at Pantera Performance. He's just as good as Lloyd with the ZF and really a great guy. He was with me every step of the way when I rebuilt mine.
quote:Originally posted by pant4714:
Glenn, That is entirely possible. I just don't know how to check it. I thought at one time it might a resonance created by the deck lid. I had occasion to drive the car without the deck lid and the noise was still there. This gearbox has less that 50,000 miles on it total. Wouldn't it be odd for it to have enough ring and pinion wear to warrant a noise of this type?
Joel