Pantera vs. other Italian

Well, I don´t know much about Panteras, but for starters it´s two seater unlike most of the cars you listed.

When I was at the market for a car to sink all my money into my final list was:

Alfa Monteral

DeTomaso Longchamp

Ferrari 308gt/4

Iso Lele

Maserati Kyalami

I wanted a car that could be driven and carry my family too, so the rear seat had to be more than a parcel shelf. Alfa is sexy looking car but no room, and pretty high maintanance engine. Ferrari is a pretty nice car, but I didn´t think that my 10 000 km / year, would be realistic as far the maintanance costs go + I noticed that my dislike towards Ferrari F1 was big enough to discount the whole brand. Iso Lele is intresting, but the looks can be challenging, and period tests weren´t too complimentary about the drive shaft arrangement(too many pieces, too much cloncking). Great looking interior though. Maserati Kyalami has the same problem as the Ferrari, as far as the engine rebuild to cars value ratio goes ( 1:1 me thinks), the interior was a bit disappointing too. Love the brand.

So I ended up buying a DeTomaso Longchamp. At first I wasn´t sure about the looks (It doesn´t photograph too well for some reason - I ´ll try my luck next summer), but seeing one in the flesh changed that. Great, easy to maintain engine, exclusivity, great chassis, exotic interior (at least mine - red leather and velour..)

Good luck with you hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by Bane:
Any opinions?

I think you need to explore a bit more what you want from the car you are searching for, because each one on your list will deliver a very different experience.

Obviously, most of us here chose the Pantera. Why? Performance, driving experience, appearance, durability, ease of maintenance, cost and availability of spares, exclusivity. Basically, it's a pretty amazing car for the money.

I too want a Ferrari 400, a Bora, a Ghibli, a Miura, a Mangusta, an Islero and a host of others. When (if I'm so lucky) I can afford to add any of them to my collection, I will. But I started with a Pantera and I still love every minute I spend in it.

I agree with the statement that the cars in the list are all very different from each other.
I too like the 930.
The Pantera is very definately "American power". That has it's advantage and disadvantage.

The advantage is that in it's stock CJ form it is very easy to maintain. If you find the engine a little to mundane it can be virtually built to Lemans standards and still be reasonably streetable.

The 930 is pure German technology. It is an awsome and powerful car but a different approach towards the same end.

It has a sound all it's own with the twin turbos . One that is very different from the thundering "Detroit", big displacement sound of the Pantera.

Enginewise maintenance of the 930 is not as simple and not as cheap as the 351c Ford is.
As a matter of fact there isn't anything cheap about the 930.

I would say that out of the box the 930 is much more comfortable. It isn't as easy to drive the Porsche at speed as the Pantera.

I think virtually anyone car drive the Pantera at speed while the 930 gets a bit hairy under certain circumstances. When the 930 starts to break away you need to put your foot into the accellerator. To me that is an unnatural response, most drivers want to back off. That is the wrong thing to do and usually will spin the car.

The Pantera on the other hand is predictable to it's limit which is signifigant.

Cars on my list are different. At this point I wanted to include different types and marques, just to cover all choices, and not miss something great. Like Pantera - that wasn't on my list before, but is now.
I have spent some time reading your posts in other threads, so much information, great place you have here!

Too bad that you can't fit the Lamborghini Miura into the budget. That would be my favorite other then the Pantera.

In fact I really like most of the Lamborghinis. I think they are well made and engineered but wish that I fit into them better.

I had to make the cabin in my Pantera larger by lowering the floor pans and moving the control pedals forward for more leg room.

If you aren't too large of a person I would recommend adding a Mangusta to the list if you can find one. In my opinion it is one of the most beautiful cars ever designed.

Compared to other exotics the Pantera has a couple of distinct advantages when long distance traveling is a consideration. It is far more durable, it can be driven over roads that would ruin other exotics. This is because it was designed to survive Ford's endurance testing. It also has the largest rear trunk of any mid engine car.

The factory ergonomics are not the best, but that can be fixed with the purchase of a set of seats. Early Panteras with Vignale coaches may require dropped floor pans to accomodate those new seats, depending upon which seats you select. If you plan on bringing a passenger on your travels, the Amerisport bulkhead kit allows the passenger seat to slide back further.

Your pocketbook is the limit when it comes to Ford V8 motors. A motor can be built for any given combination of reliability, drivability and performance. The American V8 burble of the Pantera exhaust is by far the most menacing sounding exhaust of any exotic.

Yes, Miura... If I have triple the budget, she might be a consideration
Lamborghinis are fantastic cars, true exotics in every sense. But compared to others, maintenance costs are enormous. Miura stands for: motor-is-under-repair-again
Purchase price is just the beginning for any Lamborghini. Engine rebuild can cost up to 25K€ !
I'm normal height, will fit into any car .
But I generaly find Italian cars' driving position too uncomfortable, with arms outstreched to reach the wheel, and knees bent outwards, with offset to center. Is Pantera "Italian" in this case?

American V8 is by far the most durable machine of all others on list.
What I've learned about Panteras here is that originality isn't so important compared to others. This makes maintenance even easier, and one can build his car to it's own taste and needs. They are robust and actualy can be taken to long trips, with some enhancements in ergonomics. And seem to last forever. Design is timeless. And prices are moderate at this time.

Thanks everyone for your posts!

Yes the Pantera is Italian alright. Your right leg can be longer then the left leg.
Infact it is rumored that some Pantera owners have been surgically altered to fit the Pantera. Much like the Borg on Startrek.

Lamborghinis build tractors. The cars are beautiful.

Like we are saying, the Pantera is the most bang for the buck anywhere.

It's an Italian/American marriage. Kind of like Jack Lemon and Verna Lisi in "How to Murder Your Wife".

As someone mentioned, you are asking for advice on a DeTomaso forum, so we aren't exactly neutral! But many have faced the same question as you and we have all selected a DeTomaso for some good reasons.

If you plan to LOOK at your car, or perhaps take it out of the garage one Sunday a week for a short cruise then probably any of the cars on your list would do. If you plan do DRIVE your car, then the list becomes a lot shorter.

The other Italians - the Alfas, Ferraris, Lambos etc - how many ads do you see with 100k+ miles on them? I see darn few. People don't drive them every day and there's a reason for that. It is not uncommon to see Porsches (911 flavors) with high mileage, so they are durable. But they are too common a car for my taste.

I know several Panteras with 200k+ miles on the clock. Every year I take at least one trip of 3000-4000 or 5000 kilometers in the Pantera. It is comfortable, reliable, and fun. And if something does go wrong? For the price of a head rebuild on another Italian you can buy a 500 hp crate motor for the Pantera.

It's really the best of both worlds - an unsophisticated but powerful muscle car engine with the chassis and body of an Italian.

Although to really decide, you ought to drive a few examples of each model. Once behind the wheel you may find things that you do or don't like. The brakes in the Maserati Bora take some getting used to, for example. You may or may not like them. A wide-body Pantera handles much differently than a narrow-body Pantera, and you may prefer one or the other.

So have some fun - how often will you get a chance to drive 60's Ferraris and Lambos? Drive them all and then decide.

When I was coming on this forum I came for some information and opinions about cars.
But, I also came to make an opinion about people who are driving panteras, to see how are they reacting when they need to compare their cars with others. Are they open-minded or they can't stand other marques? Are they obssesed with Panteras and why?
I wanted to get some opinions from first hand, from people who drove some cars on my list and compare them to Pantera.
I see you guys are delighted to own a Pantera, it's your lifestyle and hobby. You're supportive to each other and you welcome everybody to your society. And this is a great invitation to me.

I'm in no rush to buy the car, the plan is to choose and get it by the end of this year. This summer I plan to take a tour around Europe and have a look at as much cars as I can manage.
Numbers and words are good, but driving them is essential for decision.

Thanks for your posts.

While I'm a tiny bit predjudiced in favor of the Pantera (having driven and worked on most of the others on your list), I suggest you contact Roland Jaeckel in Germany or one of the Swedish or Swiss club members and get a drive in a Pantera. As is often said, torque is incurably addictive; once you feel the boot in your backside from proper use of the accelerator, little engines with wind-machines on them will never feel the same! And shop around; this IS a 37-year-old Italian-built sports car with all the issues that entails!

quote:

Originally posted by Bane:
When I was coming on this forum I came for some information and opinions about cars.
But, I also came to make an opinion about people who are driving panteras, to see how are they reacting when they need to compare their cars with others. Are they open-minded or they can't stand other marques? Are they obssesed with Panteras and why?
I wanted to get some opinions from first hand, from people who drove some cars on my list and compare them to Pantera.
I see you guys are delighted to own a Pantera, it's your lifestyle and hobby. You're supportive to each other and you welcome everybody to your society. And this is a great invitation to me.

I'm in no rush to buy the car, the plan is to choose and get it by the end of this year. This summer I plan to take a tour around Europe and have a look at as much cars as I can manage.
Numbers and words are good, but driving them is essential for decision.

Thanks for your posts.

If you are planning on visiting Europe this summer, then why not try to make it to Le Mans Classic in July? See details in the "Europe" section of this BB. There were 6000 collector cars at last year's LMC, and there will be 20+ Panteras at this year's event. You'll get a chance to talk to the owners, and most likely get to sit in a few cars and probably even go for a few rides. That way you can compare things like "sensation", "noise", and "visual impact" that are really hard to quantify via e-mail.

The rumble of the Pantera engine is one of the main features, imo, and you really have to feel it to be able to appreciate it. The best way tomake the decision is to see all the cars next to each other in person...

The first Panter I drove was a '71 with webers and a trans-am/nascar engine. It was a street car.
The day before I had just driven a street 427 Cobra.
I can't prove it scientifically but I thought the Pantera was faster, noticably. It certainly required much less effort to drive at any speed and I still don't know where the "ceiling" was on the damn thing.

Save yourself alot of time and grief. Just buy a nice Pantera. Don't worry so much about the work it will need mechanically.
Just make sure it isn't too rusty (they all will have alittle somewhere, they are Italian).

You have a Ferrari 365 etc. on your list, have you considered a 512BBI? Maintenance is minimal, engine out service is 8yrs or 30k miles, at 5k a sevice that's cheap for a Ferrari over 8yr spread..the engines are 250k engines, valve jobs at about 60k. if not proberly maint.
I love my 84 BBI,tubi exhaust 17" compomotive rims to run today's rubber, it halls butt, handles, starts every time no hassles fuel injected, and I drive it hard every time I get in it, 6k shifts every time, i can't resist.
Dont get me wrong....I have just as much fun in my GT5, it's just a different kind of driving experience.
There's my 2 cents worth.
Daniel

P.S. the GT5 is not as fast as the Boxer, that's one of the reasons why I have MME building me something with more kick.

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel #9191:
You have a Ferrari 365 etc. on your list, have you considered a 512BBI? Maintenance is minimal, engine out service is 8yrs or 30k miles, at 5k a sevice that's cheap for a Ferrari over 8yr spread..the engines are 250k engines, valve jobs at about 60k. if not proberly maint.
I love my 84 BBI,tubi exhaust 17" compomotive rims to run today's rubber, it halls butt, handles, starts every time no hassles fuel injected, and I drive it hard every time I get in it, 6k shifts every time, i can't resist.
Dont get me wrong....I have just as much fun in my GT5, it's just a different kind of driving experience.
There's my 2 cents worth.
Daniel

P.S. the GT5 is not as fast as the Boxer, that's one of the reasons why I have MME building me something with more kick.

That's interesting I have a BBi as well and when I took my wife for her first ride in the BBi she looked at me and said "Why did you get this it's just like the Pantera?" I told her it is not this one is red.

I am lucky enough to have a few cars from your list. 1971 Pushbutton Pantera (1303)
88 Jalpa
5000s Countach
and a couple muscle cars (69 Superbee & 64 GTO)

each is different, but out of all of them, the Pantera is probably my favorite. It's really easy to work on and it won't bust your wallet. The Countach is for the looks, the Jalpa is the most comfortable.

quote:

Originally posted by EarlyCat:
the Jalpa is the most comfortable.

Can you elaborate on how the Jalpa is more comfortable than the Pantera? Are you talking about ride characteristics, or interior room? Give us your impression.

Thanks.

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by Murph:

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel #9191:
You have a Ferrari 365 etc. on your list, have you considered a 512BBI? Maintenance is minimal, engine out service is 8yrs or 30k miles, at 5k a sevice that's cheap for a Ferrari over 8yr spread..the engines are 250k engines, valve jobs at about 60k. if not proberly maint.
I love my 84 BBI,tubi exhaust 17" compomotive rims to run today's rubber, it halls butt, handles, starts every time no hassles fuel injected, and I drive it hard every time I get in it, 6k shifts every time, i can't resist.
Dont get me wrong....I have just as much fun in my GT5, it's just a different kind of driving experience.
There's my 2 cents worth.
Daniel

P.S. the GT5 is not as fast as the Boxer, that's one of the reasons why I have MME building me something with more kick.

That's interesting I have a BBi as well and when I took my wife for her first ride in the BBi she looked at me and said "Why did you get this it's just like the Pantera?" I told her it is not this one is red.

That's even MORE interesting... yes, I have a BBi also. Plus "Steve IRL" from Ireland is a Pantera and Boxer owner.

Hey Murph! I know you from that "other" site! Didn't remember you were a Pantera owner too. Welcome to PI!

I got the impression the original poster did not want to spend what a Boxer goes for now. Could be mistaken.

I drive them back to back and enjoy the Pantera equally in many respects, more in some. Less in the areas of interior finish, comfort. MORE in the area of servicing. Oddly, the Pantera gets more looks, knowing comments.

Ha!

DeTomaso Forever!

quote:

Originally posted by Cowboy from Hell:
Ha!

You are a VEDDY VEDDY BAD MAN! If it weren't for Ferrari, deTomaso wouldn't have EVER entered Ford's mind. Just a thought.

Cyboman the Jalpa seats adjust (and have more support & padding), and there is a nice area behind the seats made for stowing the top, the seats can go back farther since they are never against the fire wall. The material used is all real leather also.

quote:

Originally posted by EarlyCat:
...the seats can go back farther since they are never against the fire wall.

You mean like this?

Now, if I can only remember where I left that sawzall...

Michael

I know of one Pantera owner in Chi town that at one time owned:
84 GTS
Ferrari Testerossa
Ferrari Dino
Ferrari Daytona
Ferrari 308
Lambo Countach
65 Vette
7? Vette

Of all these cars, he said the Lambo was the most sexy, but was uncomfortable to drive. The Testerossa was like a cadillac and was a great road car. But of all, he enjoyed driving the Pantera the best because it was just "fun"

He eventually sold all the cars but one. He kept the Pantera, which was the 2nd car ever converted to a 4.6.

CrazyDave,

I am in the process of putting a 4.6 in my car. I got all the goodies from Wilkinson.

Can you PM me and send me the contact info on this guy so that I could share some notes?

B.G.

Damn!! In this situation I would have kept the Daytona hands down.

quote:

Originally posted by DeLoreans and DeTomasos:
Damn!! In this situation I would have kept the Daytona hands down.

That thing has more gauges in it then any other car I have ever seen. It has gauges for the gauges! It's apretty nice car for just a Camaro.

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:

quote:

Originally posted by DeLoreans and DeTomasos:
Damn!! In this situation I would have kept the Daytona hands down.

That thing has more gauges in it then any other car I have ever seen. It has gauges for the gauges! It's apretty nice car for just a Camaro.

Please tell me you did not just compare a Daytona to a Camaro?

quote:

I am in the process of putting a 4.6 in my car. I got all the goodies from Wilkinson.

Can you PM me and send me the contact info on this guy so that I could share some notes?

B.G.,

Here's a link to the 4.6 conversion Crazy Dave did for his friend:
http://members.aol.com/alanscar99/Alan2.htm

I'm sure he can provide you more details.

quote:

Originally posted by Murph:

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:

quote:

Originally posted by DeLoreans and DeTomasos:
Damn!! In this situation I would have kept the Daytona hands down.

That thing has more gauges in it then any other car I have ever seen. It has gauges for the gauges! It's apretty nice car for just a Camaro.

Please tell me you did not just compare a Daytona to a Camaro?

No, not at all. I was referring to an incident when I was at a car show with my Pantera and a young couple came up to the car and asked if I mind if they looked at it.

After looking at it the girl turned to the guy and said to him,
"so what's the big deal, it's a Camaro?"

...and she wasn't even blonde.

Hey. Like John Maden says, "if you can't take the congradulations, don't score the touchdown!"
If you have a Daytonna you should be able to stand a little ribbing occassionally I would think?

The girls checking out my car were just a bit brighter than the one looking at yours.
They were discussing what kind of car it was and when one saw the Powered By Ford emblem they both smiled, nodded at each other and said "Mustang" in unison and walked away.

One of my neighbors has a really nice new black Nissan 350z. He has a Ferrari prancing horse on the trunklid. I'm not even going to ask him why?