I have a set of JFZ calipers, I believe they are early racing upgrades for the Pantera.
quote:
Originally posted by Kid:
Well, mine is for sure a challenge, and I don't even drive the thing (for now)...lol Big Grin

Rear hubs are out for the last necessary mods to get the rear brakes fit (I needed a drill press, which I don't have). Hopefully I got the measurements right, or they are wasted, ha, ha... Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by pantera chris:
I have a set of JFZ calipers, I believe they are early racing upgrades for the Pantera.
quote:
Originally posted by Kid:
Well, mine is for sure a challenge, and I don't even drive the thing (for now)...lol Big Grin

Rear hubs are out for the last necessary mods to get the rear brakes fit (I needed a drill press, which I don't have). Hopefully I got the measurements right, or they are wasted, ha, ha... Big Grin


JFZ went away a long time ago but other than the 5" bolt pattern, I'd say yes, they would solve a lot of issues?
Busy with the rear ones...

Filled the original bolt holes, and new ones made (of a larger diameter).

No adaptors or spacers needed here - all it took was a little grinding and filing here and there Smiler

Currently making holes in the hubs, but that has nothing to do with the brakes.



Found out one of my spindles is a bit bend... Frowner

The plan for now - redesign the spindles...
Need to fit the original hubs, but with a somewhat more solid spindle Smiler The bearing part is taken care of already, the rest will take some more time, efforts, and money Big Grin
Had the spindles fixed - no need to build new ones Smiler

Got all suspension parts finished, had all parts sandblasted, metallized, and powder coated.

Last and final pre-assembly fit - new studs, bearings, rubber seals, and bolts (the 10mm bolts upgraded to 10.9 grade).

I'm happy with the result - everything fits perfectly, and is the way I want (so far Big Grin ).





quote:
Originally posted by Kid:
Ship me a wheel, and I'll test fit it... Big Grin

Anyways, if I were to get my hands on a Campy rim, I wouldn't mind to test.


Mine are on the car. I'd have to ship the whole thing?

Campagnolos were made in Italy. There must be some left there in Europe?
Anders,

The nut thread is stock, i.e. 12x1.50.
The nuts I use are from Allstar performance, type 44101. Their height is 12,5mm.

Modded rear hubs - blasted, metallized, and powder coated (and some touch-up paint Big Grin). I did the double row bearing conversion too.

quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
Wish I could fit this set up under my 15" Campi's?

Thanks for posting.


Especially for Doug Big Grin

You know what... Print this picture, cut out the disc with caliper, and hold it behind your wheel to see if it fits...lol Big Grin


Have fun Doug! Razzer
Kid,

Nice work!! Looks great!! Not to hijack this thread, but I noticed the very thick spacers between the upper ball joint and the a-arm. The upper a-arm must have been modified?

It's difficult to tell from the pics, but do you have enough caster with the spacers (shims) as you have them installed? Just curious.

John
quote:
Originally posted by jb1490:
Kid,

Nice work!! Looks great!! Not to hijack this thread, but I noticed the very thick spacers between the upper ball joint and the a-arm. The upper a-arm must have been modified?

It's difficult to tell from the pics, but do you have enough caster with the spacers (shims) as you have them installed? Just curious.

John


Indeed - arms have been modded by Johnny Woods in the UK.
Now provided of camber lock, and adjustable castor.
3 shims of different thickness do allow multiple combinations to get to the required castor.
The only thing I did afterwards was to weld all arm seams all the way through.
Last test-fit of the rear ones - so far still good to go Smiler





If spotted by one - these are modified aftermarket shafts - modified because way too heavy... Had the solid shafts drilled, but not all the way through like the original ones, and with less a big hole, and drilled holes in the flanges. Last, I had the shafts themselves grinded down, as I found out they were too oversized for the dimension of the bearings - except for that, both shafts had a different diameter too... Roll Eyes Seen their cost, the grinding I as a customer should not be supposed to do. And to be honest, not a lot of parts I bought stayed unmodified because of a bad fit Roll Eyes Good thing so much parts are still made and available, but the quality should improve!
quote:
Originally posted by Anders Hellberg:
Kid

It looks very nice! Smiler

Is it stock wheel nut thread? I'm looking for open wheel nuts, which fits with my Gr3 brakes so I don't have same length on the wheel studs.
which height is your open wheel nuts?


These are the original US style "Trans-Am" wheel nuts. The were made by American Racing Wheels in the late '60s and '70s.

They are about 2-1/2" long. They use a flat washer against the wheel and the outside of them are open so you can see the tip of the wheel stud.

They are 1/2"-20 NF threads.

I think this is what you are looking for?



I believe that they really are an American thing rather than a European racing item?

I have never seen them on European racing cars UNLESS they are here in the US?


I do know that Curt Voght at Cobra Automotive has them listed as available. He makes his own.

I do not know if he will make them for the metric thread OR with a tapered seat for use without the flat washer BUT since he will custom make parts like this for customers I would tell you to ask him about them for your application.

http://www.cobraautomotive.com/

You need to tell him specifically how you want them made. Just don't say for a Pantera.

He is most familiar with Mustangs, Shelby Mustangs, Cobras and GT40's.

He IS THE GUY TO ASK and your best bet that you won't get killed in the car because the part broke at 220 mph.

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Here they are in his catalog with tapered seats so you need to ask him if he has them in a metric thread?

http://store.cobraautomotive.c...t-lug-nut-set-of-20/

Of course you could also go another route and just change out the metric studs for the US SAE versions? That might be more difficult to do? You would have to find the stud with the hub that fits your flanges?

That probably would be in Dorman for regular production cars? I don't know where you would get Grade 8 studs for racing in those or if they even exist? Can't help you there.

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Photos (1)
Small detail.

Had to make shims for the rear calipers.
Nothing extraordinary as all four of the original calipers were mounted with shims (2mm on all four corners).

As I did not want the shims to be visible to avoid a "after-market" look, I made them follow the lines of both calipers and hubs.

Something little that consumed quite some time, but I like to get things right Smiler



Where is the shim... Razzer
The rear ones installed. Needs some minor mods here and there. Need to make the shim a mm thicker too. Still need to work out a solution for the hand-brake cable too... I hope the last "issue" I need to sort out. Caliper just barely fits - hand-brake cable adjustment will be critical will the pad arms not touch the inner side of the wheels!



As for the front wheels - have to make 1mm spacers to get the needed clearance with the calipers. A weekend full of files ahead again Big Grin
@ Kid.

A while ago I asked if there were "racing" front spindles for the Gp4 cars. Your bent spindle is an example why.

So far, the answer is no, and the probability is that there never were?

The thought I had was that when "Ford racers", whether or not it was Shelby Racing, Hollman Moody, and any of the racers that went racing with the Mustang in the Trans Am series, the weakness of the original spindle under severe conditions became apparent.

Very simply, Ford itself, redesigned the spindle enlarging the diameter of the spindle only at the vertical intersection. The outer end of the spindle remained the same. The outer wheel bearing remained the same.

It really came about, not from racing but to handle the 60 series tires on the 1970 model Mustang, not the race car. Simply put, the racers took this improved street car part and substituted it for the original smaller spindle size part and basically it solved the problem.

The original spindle couldn't handle going from something like a 6.95-14 to a D60-15. That is the same size as the Pantera which at most could handle the C60 Arriva. Are you SURE you want to race on that?

People who are familiar with both the Mustang and the Pantera see the similarities between the two cars. In effect, the Pantera is a metric version of the Mustang front suspension dimensionally.

Now considering that the Gp4 cars can fit huge front racing tires, the loading on that spindle is tremendously increased.

I suppose that the simple fix then was just to replace a bent "stock" spindle with another new stock part?

This to me, just seems to be a difference in perspective between how the Europeans and the Americans go about racing? I'm not the one to criticize but thinking about that picture of the pile of bent Gp4 cars behind the Detomaso factory, I can't help but wonder how many of those wound up there because of a failed front spindle?

Apparently they weren't even worth fixing? Just take another car out of production and build another Gr4? Same weak parts. Same results in the end?

All things considered, if I was racing, my worry wouldn't be if it would fail, just when and where on the track. My experiences would say, probably at the worst possible time, in the worst possible place. Just my observation.


I do see that you realized that in order to use a spacer safely they need to be hub-centric. Anything else on this car is suicidal but not everyone is going to take that route unfortunately and not everyone is going to put longer studs in the car.

Unless you have actually experienced it (I have) you won't believe how easy those studs blow off. Kinda' like explosive bolts on the canopy of a fighter jet in an emergency bail out situation, just without the noise?



@ Goodroc.

Using stainless for any fastener "sounds" like a great idea. The problem is that stainless threaded fasteners "chafe" much to easily, cross thread and jamb.

It is so typical that when you disassemble them, pieces of the threads come with it.

I don't know if it is any kind of a great idea to use stainless lug nuts on a car under severe conditions?

Also, lug nuts for "severe duty" use, like racing, should be hardened. Although technically anyone with a Smithy 3 in 1 in the garage could make lug nuts out of hex stock, it really isn't just that simple to cut the stock down, drill them and thread them. Big Grin
Peter,

Fronts are 7,48kg/set, rears 6,84kg/set, all without pads.

Discs are front 290x28, rear 290x12,7mm.
Initially I had the fronts made 304mm, but machined them down again to 290. After all, it is easier to macine down, than to add material...lol. As for Gr3... Dunno, as I do not know in what way the Gr3 front is different. Discs are nothing special (any brake specialist can deliver any kind of disc), but the alloy hats are custom made as per my own calculations and requirements.

Doug - except for the 1mm shim/spacer for the front wheels to get the needed wheel/caliper "clearance", no wheel spacers, and stock lenght of studs ;-)
quote:
Originally posted by Kid:


Doug - except for the 1mm shim/spacer for the front wheels to get the needed wheel/caliper "clearance", no wheel spacers, and stock lenght of studs ;-)


With what wheels?

On a race car often the studs are extended for safety.

Mine are 2-1/2" long ARP studs and long lug nuts. I feel safer that way.

I think the lugs are 2" long but I'd have to go check that.
quote:

On a race car often the studs are extended for safety.

Mine are 2-1/2" long ARP studs and long lug nuts. I feel safer that way.

I think the lugs are 2" long but I'd have to go check that.


Fits your ARP studs on a Pantera without rebuilding the original Pantera parts?

How do I know if I have the standard Pantera studs or longer GR4/GT5 studs?
Does sombody know anything about this brakes ? :


Brakes: Girling, Front 332 x 32 ventilated and cross-drilled; Rear: 314 x 28 ventilated
Wheels (fr/r), Campagnolo 10 x 15" / 14 x 15"
Tyres (fr/r), Goodyear 4.5/11.5-15" / 5.5/15.3-15"
1250kg, Group 5: 950kg
fuel tank, 90 lt
Hello, these are the group 4 brakes with the 8 pot Girling. Those calipers were used on some F1 cars in the '70s and really unavailable. Now I'm reproducing those. Although in the stage of design but allmost ready for small quantity production. As I need them myself for my fia group 4 car next year. The calipers are equipped with 4 pads.
hello,
the discs are 304 x 28 mm
part n° girling calipers 507.33.047 and xxxxx.048
the pads i have to find out but dimensions are 101.6 x 49.53mm ; 4 pieces for each caliper.
for the rears were the 3 pot maserati/lamborghini cast iron calipers used or the lockheed/ ap racing historic alu calipers for discs till 280 mm.

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