What is the Value of an Early Pantera with a Group 5 Package?

I only recently joined this forum as I am seriously interested in purchasing a California Pantera (I'm in Atlanta, GA) that has the Group 5 package. I know from reading comments on the BaT site when a Pantera appears, there are those who love it and those who hate it (flares & wing added to the car). Personally, I think it makes the car look like a beast, BUT what is the general consensus regarding increased or decreased value of a car with those mods? I sent an appraiser to see the car, but he is having trouble finding comparable cars that have sold or are for sale with the Group 5 additions, so he can provide a reasonable estimate. ALL opions welcomed and if you are in Georgia, PLEASE email me at bcartus@yahoo.com ASAP!
Thank you!
Original Post
Bill; You've probably just opened the "can of worms" that will be discussed for infinity.
The "purist" will support the original, while the "modifier" will support modifications.
I think you answered your own question when you stated "Personally, I think it looks like a beast", meaning you want that which pleases you.
Regarding price, in my opinion, its what you like and are willing to pay.
Are you buying the car as an investment or as a car you want to drive and take to weekend shows? I, personally, like the pre-L cars because of their beautiful, sensuous lines without the flared fenders, spoilers, etc. But, that's me. My Pantera should be coming home to me TODAY!!! after four years of modifications (fuel injection, high hp engine, all leather interior and new seats, etc) that were done to make me want to drive it more often than I was, which was almost never. So, if you're buying it for your own enjoyment, get it done the way you want it and to hell with what others think.
quote:
Originally posted by tberg:
Are you buying the car as an investment or as a car you want to drive and take to weekend shows? I, personally, like the pre-L cars because of their beautiful, sensuous lines without the flared fenders, spoilers, etc. But, that's me. My Pantera should be coming home to me TODAY!!! after four years of modifications (fuel injection, high hp engine, all leather interior and new seats, etc) that were done to make me want to drive it more often than I was, which was almost never. So, if you're buying it for your own enjoyment, get it done the way you want it and to hell with what others think.


JAG13CAT - I somehow had a feeling a can would be opened, so I'm ready! Commentators on the BaT site has prepared me! Thanks!

TBERG - Actually I'm buying with All Of The Above - investment, driver, take to shows, with investment being high on the list. I'm actually open about a car with or without the mods, but concerned that "I am turning off a segment of future potential Pantera buyers with these mods". The car looks like a 1985 GTS, which is worth way more than a base '73, but LOOKS almost identical at first glance. That seemed to be a plus, but that's why I'm asking. Wink
Buy what you like best but please don't buy a nice original car and then cut it up. Bolt on's (if you retain the original parts) won't hurt or help the value significantly in my opinion. The cost of mods are seldom returned at resale unless the labor is free (IE DIY).

As for value, search all the typical sites to see what they are selling for and go from there. Watch dates sold when searching because prices seem to be rising and a 2 year old sale will be below current market.
Some states (California for instance) make it more practical to own an older 1971-1974 Pantera revised with a kit, rather than owning an actual GT5 manufactured from 1979-1984. The older cars don't require periodic tailpipe emissions testing, whereas the newer cars do. In a state like that the value of a GT5 replica should do well so long as the installation of the kit exhibits good craftsmanship and the installer refrained from "personalization" and remained true to the car being replicated.

If the GT5 kit is just one part of a car that has been extensively "personalized" then placing a value on a car like that is partially dependent on the quality of craftsmanship that went into the car, and partially dependent upon how closely the "personalization" matches the buyer's "personal" tastes. The "personal taste factor" means the value of a car like that will be worth more to one person and less to another.
I couldn't agree more with the comments already posted. I too love the clean sensuous lines without flared fenders or spoilers. But, I also love the muscular appearance of a flared car WITHOUT the "wannabe" Countach wing!

It will be YOUR car, so get what you want! But please, DO NOT BUTCHER A NICE ORIGINAL CAR TO MAKE A GT5 CONE!!!

As for values, you can search current and sold listings on Ebay and BAT for starters, as well as check out other sites with cars for sale (Hemmings) to see what people are asking. Avoid aggregator sites like Trovit or any other site that doesn't list the seller's contact info, but instead wants you to complete a form with all your information to inquire; such sites merely scrape the web for other people's ads and show them as their own, often presenting unrealistically low prices from early auction bids.

Ebay current auctions/ads:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/Cars-...kw=detomaso&_vxp=mtr

Ebay Sold listings - not sure how to extend the range of sale dates
https://www.ebay.com/sch/Cars-...rksid=p2045573.m1684

Bring a Trailer (BAT)
https://bringatrailer.com/detomaso/
quote:
Originally posted by garth66:
I couldn't agree more with the comments already posted. I too love the clean sensuous lines without flared fenders or spoilers. But, I also love the muscular appearance of a flared car WITHOUT the "wannabe" Countach wing!

It will be YOUR car, so get what you want! But please, DO NOT BUTCHER A NICE ORIGINAL CAR TO MAKE A GT5 CONE!!!

As for values, you can search current and sold listings on Ebay and BAT for starters, as well as check out other sites with cars for sale (Hemmings) to see what people are asking. Avoid aggregator sites like Trovit or any other site that doesn't list the seller's contact info, but instead wants you to complete a form with all your information to inquire; such sites merely scrape the web for other people's ads and show them as their own, often presenting unrealistically low prices from early auction bids.

Ebay current auctions/ads:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/Cars-...kw=detomaso&_vxp=mtr

Ebay Sold listings - not sure how to extend the range of sale dates
https://www.ebay.com/sch/Cars-...rksid=p2045573.m1684

Bring a Trailer (BAT)
https://bringatrailer.com/detomaso/


Yes, I've searched BaT, but not eBay yet. No Pantera's with the Group5 package that I can see there right now (BTW, there is a yellow car about to hit the end of an auction... watching that now!). And I totally agree, that if I found an original, unmolested Pantera, I would NOT be adding the flares or wing!

Loving this forum! Appreciate the feedback from all!!!
Bill, why buy fake when there is a very decent ACTUAL GT5 available only a few posts away?

FWIW, I’m in agreement with most of what has been shared here already. But if retained investment value is high on your list, stick with a good factory car instead of a (potentially) questionable clone. Sales have proven that un-modified original cars get the top money and “personalized” cars the least. Quality replications of factory cars are in between.

This is a solid, known car available now and probably will hold its value well, being one of less than 200 original GT5s:

http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/...0045562/m/7481034266

Good luck with your search and let us know if you need anything.

Mark
There is a yellow '73 GT5 conversion that has been doing the rounds at Mecum bidding to $65-75K, but it has a lot of personalization and funky rear valance.

I'm with Mark, (albeit I have as somewhat biased view as owner of an '81 factory GT5), I think for future investment value alogn with fit and finish a late model GT5 is a bargain right now.

Bill, I happen to be in the 'modify it if it doesn't function as you'd like' school. The function of wheels too wide to fit the original body is to enhance/improve high-speed cornering beyond what proper tires on 8" wide/10" wide wheels can provide. The function of the wing is to stabilize the rear end at speeds in excess of 150 mph (according to one test done in England where lap times were reduced WITH the wing mounted). So if you don't mind the expense of the wider tires and driving like this is how you envision your use of the machine, fine.

The wing, surprisingly to me- IS functional at speed and apparently does not add very much aero drag. It also works as a stand-up picnic table during outdoor car shows and is strong enough to act as a seat for several reasonably-sized young women.   Giant tires do add measurable drag.

Flares to cover wider wheels/tires can be steel or fiberglas and can be in GR-4 or GT-5 styles, which are noticeably different. The value of a modified Pantera is in the eye of the beholder and is likely a function of the quality of the bodywork and the preferences of a potential buyer. But currently, even a very well done all-steel modified car will not approach the price asked for a original GT-5, regardless of the quality of the work.  IMHO, anyone that buys a Pantera primarily for its investment qualities rather than the thrill of driving it, deserves whatever happens.

 

 

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Thanks, Bosswrench... and everyone above!!!  Your answers are pretty much in line with what I expected and there wasn't anything posted that discouraged me with a potential purchase.  I understand from talking to a current owner near me, many Pantera owners in the South (aka East Coast) have either sold their cars or not as involved as they once were.  I'm hoping to change that and see if I can single-handedly grow some interest in the Marque!  Thanks again!  Off to LA in a few days and maybe bring a California car to Georgia!

I also agree with everything said above.  Having owned all 3 over the years, the all original 72 was a nice example and untouched.  The 85 GT5 was mostly original with a built 351.  Now I have a late 71 that has the GT5 wide body conversion.  I didn't want to change things on either of the previous cars and this conversion was done already.  I have made a few mods of my own, but it's my preference and to my liking, so it can be driven and enjoyed for years to come.  

Thanks for your comment. I've driven a few wide-body cars although the narrow body cars are our favorites. As for mods, I've made around 90 changes but only a Revson front spoiler, vented glas hood and GR-4 tail lights/GT5 front parking lights are visible. Wife likes the orig. look!

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