Why I am a totaly unique Pantera owner.

Don't feel bad, I took a radical cam out of a 64 vette. It drove better, started better and it still had more power that the car could take. I also put 350 sbc heads on a tuned port 304 reducing the compression to about 8-1 It ran ok too, but it sounded kinda like a six cly. Our cars don't have to prove anything, just read the history books, it's been there and beat the best.

Thanks for sharing your story. I've been trying to figure out how to get $10,000 to get a 427 stroker installed, ASAP. It really doesn't make any sense to do that, as little as I drive it. But then again, it's for fun, and almost everything else in life makes too much sence and isn't for fun. Money spent for education, real estate, etc. Always so cautious and carefully planned expenditures. Maybe I'm just going to enjoy it as it is: stock, then if and when the $$$ comes along, do the 427 stroker or add more ponies to the 351-C.

The part I liked best about your story is you have the knowledge and experience to do the engine upgrades yourself, and you are passing those skills to your son. Just like Marlin Jack and his photo spread with the Boss engine and his son working the engine hoist.

quote:

Originally posted by lastpushbutton:
Don't feel bad, I took a radical cam out of a 64 vette. It drove better, started better and it still had more power that the car could take. I also put 350 sbc heads on a tuned port 304 reducing the compression to about 8-1 It ran ok too, but it sounded kinda like a six cly. Our cars don't have to prove anything, just read the history books, it's been there and beat the best.

Yeah and I have never had my car over 100 MPH anyway. It is thirty two years old. Do I want to trust brakes that old and brake lines and wheel bearings?? There is just way too much that can go wrong. I don't race it. The idea of trying to bang gears down the drag strip makes me cringe. I like my car to drive. I have nothing to prove. I like driving it on the highway, at the speed limit. I like people waving at me and giving me the thumbs up.

quote:

Originally posted by veryfast italain:
Thanks for sharing your story. I've been trying to figure out how to get $10,000 to get a 427 stroker installed, ASAP. It really doesn't make any sense to do that, as little as I drive it. But then again, it's for fun, and almost everything else in life makes too much sence and isn't for fun. Money spent for education, real estate, etc. Always so cautious and carefully planned expenditures. Maybe I'm just going to enjoy it as it is: stock, then if and when the $$$ comes along, do the 427 stroker or add more ponies to the 351-C.

The part I liked best about your story is you have the knowledge and experience to do the engine upgrades yourself, and you are passing those skills to your son. Just like Marlin Jack and his photo spread with the Boss engine and his son working the engine hoist.

When I first started posting here the things I enjoyed most was people Pantera stories. I have always said I would do one, but don't have a lot of time. SO today I had a few extra minutes, so why not??
Thanks, I have always wanted a Ford GT-40 Mk. IV. That came with a 427 side oiler and two four barrels. If I ever got fabously wealthy I would buy a brand new one from World products, all aluminum 427 FE. Probably run about 528 cubic inches, 13.5 :1 compresion ratio, you know, the whole kitten kabootal. But then again, I would have a more expensive engine than the car it is going in. Hmmm, never seemed to bother those kids in the hondas, so why should it bother me??

DT, Ron,

don't feel unique, there are many Pantera owners driving stock or near stock engines. And enjoying themselves as much as owners with 514 cubic inch, 500+ bhp engines. It's easy to get off track when you see owners racing their cars & driving 514 cubic inch Panteras featured in the quarterlies. The secret is to remain true to YOUR vision.

Each person has a different reason for owning the car. The Pantera IS a "classic" Italian sports car. The unique feature of Pantera ownership is that it is OK to modify it; with other marques that is strictly a no-no. But on the other hand, that doesn't mean you HAVE to modify it.

For myself, I like to travel. My vision is not making it a show car or racing it on a track. I love taking it out on the open road. For my needs, the engine must be reliable and drivable, drivability is a big factor in my equation.

I believe owners who have similar needs to mine, might like an example of what can be done to a Cleveland motor that doesn't detract from the reliability & drivability factors. So I've kind of decided to go in that direction myself & serve as the "lab rat" to find out what can be done with parts available today, see how far I can go & I'll let the BB know from time to time, as I reach milestones, how things are going. My budget is not unlimited, so I'll be doing things in phases. At this point my Cleveland motor is 100% oem. It starts every time & is easy to crawl along in traffic, drive through parking lots, you name it.

your friend on the PIBB, George

Uhm, Well, what George said!

Thanks George. I apreciate the encouragement you have given me. The engine I put in the car this winter came with a three year, 30K mile warrenty. Being as I only have 200 or so miles on it and haven't even changed out the break in oil yet, I think the three years will be up before the 30K mile part. Being as my whole car only has about 25K miles on it, it sounds like a safe bet.
So even if I want to put my heads back on it will be a few years before I can or I void my warrenty. I am even thinking about taking my Hall Ultras with Dunlop meats on them off this fall and going back with the stock wheels and lowering the car way down. The Halls look real good but I don't think I need all that extra rubber anymore with seventy five less horses. Wanna buy some really spiffy wheels and tires????

I built my motor .30 over. Roller nothing. Have drivien it over 15,000 miles and never had any problems with the motor other than the instake gasget being replaced recently.
It runs extremely smooth and is fast enough that I got a criminal speeding ticket 2 years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by Coz:
I built my motor .30 over. Roller nothing. Have drivien it over 15,000 miles and never had any problems with the motor other than the instake gasget being replaced recently.
It runs extremely smooth and is fast enough that I got a criminal speeding ticket 2 years ago.

I have never gotten a speeding ticket because my speedometer reads only KPH, so I always think I am going to fast.
I did get pulled over once by a cop. When I asked if I was speeding he said no, he just wanted to make sure the car wasn't stolen. So he came back from running me and had bunches of questions about the car. Right up until he got a "real" call on his radio.

Coz, how fast do you have to go to be a criminal? And where was this?

I fully agree that this great car can fit any mindset and match any expectation and budget.

But for my two cents on this discussion, high performance does not have to take anything away from driveability or reliability. Both have improved tremendously since I redid the stock motor into what is now 522hp & 510 ft lbs of torque. I chose not to use EFI but all the other electronic and pure performance advantages have delivered a ton of grunt and yet I can still slowly cruise through the neighborhood (setting off car alarms on both side of the street) or sit in traffic all day long.

Not that I ever want to. Even though my AC works fine, I have no insulation or padding anywhere, just cheap carpet between me and the metal floors and firewall - pretty weak for keeping the heat and noise out. When all else is perfect, I guess I'll get around to cosmetics and comfort issues.

Aside from the need to travel with more oil than luggage (the stroker tends to use about a quart and a half every couple of hours)if I made a mistake it was probably doing all the engine bay polish and chrome. It's great to look at - but when I did the engine my trips consisted of a couple of hours at most. Now that I can and do think about going anywhere I want, it sure is restrictive as I have to worry about rain and end up only going as far as dry weather permits.

I guess I'll just have too move to SoCal or Arizona!

17 MPH over the speed limit in Arizona. I-17 traveling South from Prescott. Before the hill, I was doing 150. Heard the radar detector go off, stood on the brakes and was able to get it down to 93. Still criminal speed. Fine, 160.00 and 3 ponts.

My car is certainly not the fastest around, but it runs the 1/4 mile in 12 and I have had it up to 167. Fast enough for me. Everyone that has ridden in my car tells me how silky smooth the motor is and how quick it is. Just careful building, matching the right parts and having a machine shop that knows what their doing and listens to what I want.

I have no A/C. But I do have a swamp cooler. I roll the windows down and use a spray bottle.
:-)

I never really cared about the cosmedic's of the motor until recently now that everything else is pretty much done. I was more interested in reliability & power. A give and take situation, I ended up with both. Like I said, it's not the fastest, but it suits my purpose and I drive my car as a daily driver. As soon as I am done with the ZF, it goes back to being my daily driver. I've put over 15,000 miles on my car in the last year and it will see 15,000 more in the next year. I would drive my car anywhere and not worry about it.

If you can't drive it, then why have it.

There are a few guys on this site that have ridden in my car. They'll tell you how it runs.

"There are a few guys on this site that have ridden in my car. They'll tell you how it runs."

I'll second that. After going for a ride in Coz's car and learning what was done to it, I'm impressed.

I have to agree with Coz here. If you don't drive it, why have it? With a Pantera you can have the best of both worlds. You can have an everyday driver and still have well over 400 hp on tap that can compete with all but the very best cars. Technology have advanced quite a bit in the last 30 years. Apply some of those advances to our cars. The more you use the car, the more enjoyment you'll get out of it. As a kind of unintended benefit of driving my Pantera, I've made many new friends, not including the guy in the gas station though. I could do without seeing him so much. Vince

Thanks Blayre.

[QUOTE]I'll second that. After going for a ride in Coz's car and learning what was done to it, I'm impressed.

I'm getting right at 425 HP at the flywheel. Too funny korina, I as well have made many new friends that own gas stations. Too many as a matter of fact. :-)

quote:

Originally posted by korina:
I have to agree with Coz here. If you don't drive it, why have it? With a Pantera you can have the best of both worlds. You can have an everyday driver and still have well over 400 hp on tap that can compete with all but the very best cars. Technology have advanced quite a bit in the last 30 years. Apply some of those advances to our cars. The more you use the car, the more enjoyment you'll get out of it. As a kind of unintended benefit of driving my Pantera, I've made many new friends, not including the guy in the gas station though. I could do without seeing him so much. Vince

quote:

My son had been bugging me to let him work on my car so I relented. A tune up and oil change, what could go wrong??
A thrown rod in the motor is what can go wrong. Yeah after being re-assured by my son three times that the firing order was correct and further inquirey would be insulting. So I drove it backfireing until it started to knock. After the knock developed my son did admit he was mistaken.

De Tom, this reminds me of a story which happened in Vegas, last April. My Pantera blew out the exhaust header gasket on one side on the trip to Vegas. So I got a new set of exhaust cylinder head to header gaskets at the Pahrump, NV NAPA and Coz helped me replace the gasket, right in the pit, exactly in the spot shown in my Avitar. Installed, Coz said "Start it up, Ron, let's see if that fixed it." So I started it, while still on the jack stands. When I revved it up I said "It doesn't seem like it has any power." Coz looked at the engine and started laughing. Coz said, "I'm surprised it even runs, we forgot to hook up all the spark plug wires on the right side, it's only running on four cylinders. But it runs pretty smoothe. Do you want to leave it like that, since it's running so smoothe?" Coz, and his sense of humor, just like Moses in the cartoon I posted yesterday. It's a guy thing.... So, we went about putting the spark plug wires back on. Only they weren't labeled, 1,2,3,4. I always label them like that, front to rear, but I always peel the labels off. Learning from your topic, I'm going to leave the labels on next time. Any way, Coz said, "How do you want to do this? Install them by the lengths, or try and use the firing order? If we use the firing order, it'll be a pain in the butt." I said, "Let's just use the lengths of the wires, then if it's running badly, we can go back and use the firing order method." Luckily, the lengths were the right clue, and the wires were properly reinstalled.

And yes, Coz does have a smoothe running performance engine. With stock gearing, I guess that's about 7,200 RPM's at 167 mph, eh Coz? I know Coz quite well, and so I know this is not exaggerating, eh Coz? Like the Moses fishing cartoon, guys that like each other give each other a little bit of a hard time, just for fun. So Coz, you don't mind if I give you a little bit of a hard time do you? BTW, Coz doesn't have a speedo, so I'm letting you know, 167 mph 'is an exact number' for the speed he was going. I better be nice and thank Coz for his help in Vegas, lest he decide not to help me next time. Thanks Jim Cozzolino, V.P. of the AZ Chapter of POCA, and the man who has my AZ POCA T Shirt in his possession ... another reason I need to be nice to Coz!

The forecast is for rain tomorrow, so water skiing is cancelled. We're heading to Santa Fe, the Plaza, where there's a car show ... maybe there'll be an opportunity to try out 'the pick-up line' At 48 and single, me and my recently divorced buddy George Pence, we share strategies for picking up women ... you married guys out there can safely 'live vicariously' through our experiences!

You guys might want to leave your White shoes, White belts, and Bell bottom pants home!!! Oh and drop the (whats your sign baby) line!
Don't ask me how or why I know this?
Rock on DUDES!!!

Ron,
You know I'd help you any time brother. The shirt is on it's way to you Pirority mail. You should have it today, if not, by Monday for sure.
It was right at 6800 RPM (as far as I was going to push it) and my DPS friend had his radar gun out for me. (No ticket this time) Who needs a speedo. Which by the way I have finally ordered a cable for it.

I've learned to judge my speed with the tack. At 3000 rpm in 5th, I'm doing 78. What else do I need to know ?

Hey, you know us married guys can read the menu, we just can't order.....

quote:

Don't ask me how or why I know this?

OK, I'll take the bait ... how do you know this?

The pick up line is detailed in George Pence's topic yesterday, the have a great weekend thread. It started last week, when I told him about it, I think it was in his joke for the day thread.

No white pants, white tennis shoes though. They have a little grease on them though. And a Pantera International white T-shirt, so as to do a little advertising, for PI and myself, of course ... conversation starter!

Does anybody remember the "potato in the pants" skit from Saturday night live? The skit featured Steve Martin, Dan Akroyd & Garrett Morris. Garrett told the Czech brothers to put a potato in their pants to help them pick up "Foxes". Well, it wasn't working, so the Czech brothers complained to Garrett. It turned out the Czech brothers were putting the potatos in the wrong side of their pants.

Ron...you know...we are 2 wild & crazy guys.

Do I really have to leave my white leather shoes home? How about my autographed photo of Pat Boone?

On the topic of the "C" engine, I've built a few of them. But I haven't built one since the late '80s. So for my Pantera, I want to use the parts that weren't available 20 years ago, keep the tune on the mild side, so that it will appeal to a large number of owners, & see what can be done. When it comes to the oem castings & even the Ford Motorsport parts, I've been there & done that. I just want to do something new. I know this can be an emotional topic, some people are very attached to the oem castings. I don't understand it, but I apologize if I step on any toes. What I'm kicking around in my head is using CHI 4V heads, a hydraulic roller cam, a stroker crank, and a Ford intake with 4300D carb. Then later I'll possibly install a Quality Roadsters EFI system. Stroker cranks were around 20 years ago, but the choices back then were off-set grinding the stock crank (3.7" stroke) or a very expensive HTC crank. Today there is a large selection of stroker kits that are a step above the off-set ground stock crank, but not nearly as costly as a custom crank by HTC. Of course, what David (deeb) found out, is if the wrist pin intersects the oil ring groove, the engine will burn oil, so I'll avoid that situation by keeping the stroke at 3.75".

Korina, to comment on your statement, "if you're not going to drive it, why own it?", I know you would support me in owning my Pantera, even if I choose to use it differently than you, wouldn't you? You certainly have my support to use yours as you see fit. I don't expect your "vision" for your Pantera to be the same as mine. That was my point when I first replied to this post.

your friend on the PIBB, George

Hey George, you want to be absolutely and totaly unique?? Want effortless power that blows people away??? Check this baby out. If I had the bucks this is the way I would go...


http://www.flatlanderracing.com/genesis-427alum.html

DeTom,

The 427 side oiler was/is a great block, with a mains priority oiling system and cross-bolted main caps. The FE engine has alot of loyal enthusiasts. I'm happy for them.

SJ Performance of Australia has an all aluminum Cleveland block in the works, featuring a revised oil system & iron liners allowing over bores in the 4.165" range (not sure how far). Its due to be on the market this Winter, the price you ask? Hold onto your wallet, $5K.

We can only hope new parts for the Cleveland engine continue to reach the market, the stuff available today is truly remarkable.

George

quote:

Originally posted by george pence:
DeTom,

The 427 side oiler was/is a great block, with a mains priority oiling system and cross-bolted main caps. The FE engine has alot of loyal enthusiasts. I'm happy for them.

SJ Performance of Australia has an all aluminum Cleveland block in the works, featuring a revised oil system & iron liners allowing over bores in the 4.165" range (not sure how far). Its due to be on the market this Winter, the price you ask? Hold onto your wallet, $5K.

We can only hope new parts for the Cleveland engine continue continue to reach the market, the stuff available today is truly remarkable.

George

5K for just the block?? Holy cow. That would be expensive. But then again, Shelby has been selling 40+K engines for years now. SOmeone is buying them. I would love to build an all out engine if someone else would pay for it. I would love to try some stuff like Inconnel cylinder walls and sliding valve ports powered by nytonol members electronically accutuated. I bet I could come up with a 2000 horsepower motor that weighed less than a four cylinder. Given enough money of course.

De Tom, you ever met Husker? He lives in Kentucky, if memory serves me. Also if memory serves me, then Kentucky is pretty close to Tennessee... Husker's a good guy, we talk once in a while, by talk, I mean e-mail each other, talk about Pantera and non-Pantera stuff. He, like me, is sort of isolated from any POCA chapters. Speaking of POCA chapters, Dave Adler was once the Prez of POCA and the Editor-In-Charge of their POCA Profiles quarterly. What-the-heck, I'll make the introductions around here then, get things going a little more. Dave, you there? Were you the first POCA Prez or the first POCA Editor? We know you're a unique Pantera dude too, shall I author your autobiography right here, on the PIBB? (I like to give people I like just a little bit of a hard time once in a while)

your Amigo,
Ron

quote:

Originally posted by veryfast italain:
De Tom, you ever met Husker? He lives in Kentucky, if memory serves me. Also if memory serves me, then Kentucky is pretty close to Tennessee... Husker's a good guy, we talk once in a while, by talk, I mean e-mail each other, talk about Pantera and non-Pantera stuff. He, like me, is sort of isolated from any POCA chapters. Speaking of POCA chapters, Dave Adler was once the Prez of POCA and the Editor-In-Charge of their POCA Profiles quarterly. What-the-heck, I'll make the introductions around here then, get things going a little more. Dave, you there? Were you the first POCA Prez or the first POCA Editor? We know you're a unique Pantera dude too, shall I author your autobiography right here, on the PIBB? (I like to give people I like just a little bit of a hard time once in a while)

your Amigo,
Ron

No Ron, I haven't meet anyone. I think I did email Husker about some window slats. He seemed real nice. BUt until I blew up my engine last fall, I never knew this place existed. I keep reading about POCA but they sound to me like they argue a lot. I would hope that POCA would merge with PI so it would be more tight knit. That way you could just pay dues to one org. It may not sound like a lot of money to you, but paying dues on two orgs every year could add up to a lot of parts and add ons you didn't buy.
Anyway I like the people here on this forum. Everyone seems pretty nice. They have to be to put up with me.

You just don't know us yet DeTom.....

[QUOTE]
Anyway I like the people here on this forum. Everyone seems pretty nice.

quote:

Originally posted by Coz:
You just don't know us yet DeTom.....

[QUOTE]
Anyway I like the people here on this forum. Everyone seems pretty nice.

Oh heck, I know you raced Porsches with Steve McQueen. You are still my heroe. Even if you are short.