Hello all. I live in the Los Angeles area. I bought an '88 GT5-S Amerisport over a year ago. I bought the car in NJ, it is currently being restored and I should have the car back in the next few months or so.

After I bought the GT5-S, I took the title and purchase agreement and tried to register the car at my local DMV here in Los Angeles. They looked at the title and told me because the car is an out of state vehicle they would need to visually check the car. The lady said all they check for on the visual inspection is that the VIN# on the car matches that on the title paperwork. From there I would be sent to get a smog certificate.

I have a friend who knows someone who owns a smog shop, and my friend told me he could get the smog cert done for me by hook or crook, so to speak. So at that time I thought I would be ok.

Problem is, when the lady entered the VIN# into her computer at the DMV, she said it didn't come up. She said she has never seen that before and didn't know how to handle that. But she said first I needed to have the car with me for the visual, so to come back when I have the car.

At the time when the lady said the VIN# didn't come up in her computer, I didn't think much of it. However, I have recently learned that if the VIN# doesn't come up in the DMV's computer, I will be directed to an agency called CARB. They will charge me around 10k for the inspection, and they will require all the correct smog equip be put back on the car, including putting cat converters, smog hoses and all that stuff. I have a fontana engine with absolutely no smog stuff on the car. So for me, dealing with CARB will surely become an expensive nightmare for me.

I was thinking of driving my GT5-S to Arizona and registering the car there. While AZ requires smog certificates in all of the major cities, there are several small towns that do not require smog certs. Problem is, you have to apply for the exemption and they will ask for a current utility bill or tax return to prove that you actually live in that smog exempt town. That is a problem for me obviously.

Is there anyone out there who owns a GT5-S in California that has any work arounds or suggestions for registering my car here in California?

Thanks,

David
Original Post
The smog issues are why we normally advise Californians to acquire 1971 - 1974 models that have been converted to GT4, GT5, GT5-S spec. Life is much simpler.

I have a friend here in Ventura, George Walker, who owns a 5-S; George is hooked up with a smog shop that is not too particular about the visual inspection as long as the car passes the tail pipe inspection. Here on the forums Jim Coyne, i.e. Techno-sound, is a fellow GT5-S owner. Also remember, Kirk Evans, i.e. Amerisport, is the guy behind the smog equipment for all of the 1980s grey market cars. His knowledge on the subject is immense.

One question to ask the DMV, are the laws for bringing a car into California as stringent in the parts of the state that don't require smog inspections? Many Californians don't realize only greater southern California and the Bay Area require smog inspection. My brother who lives near Modesto doesn't have to have his cars smogged.

I've heard quite a few hot rod enthusiasts own Mail Boxes at a Mail-Box center (or is it a Post Office?) near the Salton Sea, simply because there is no smog inspections required for that zip code. They use the Mail Box for all their automobile, insurance and DMV related transactions.

If Arizona registration turns out to be a dead end, there are other western states that may be a better choice, such as Nevada.

David, what ever you find out, please share it with us here, I for one will find it educational. Folks are always coming to me for guidance, and I don't have all the answers.

If there's anything I can do, let me know.

-G
Is it an Amerisport or a grey import GT5-S? I thought all the Amerisport's were 50 state legal, obviously not withstanding the motor upgrades.

Living in a NV region that requires smog (for all cars 68 on) I know the mail boxes route does not always work as DMV have got wise. Compliance enforcement check driving licenses against car registration addresses and come knocking.....

In NV there is also now a clampdown on out of state registered vehicles as NV is losing a bunch of tax money with people registering in cheaper states.

Julian
Julian, my car is an Amerisport. Under the front hood of the car, it shows the VIN# tag and also the DOT tag. When I bought the car, I was under the assumption that Amerisport already went through all the hoops to make the car legal in the USA. I figured all I needed was to find a smog shop that was willing to play ball with me.

My problem now is that if the VIN# didn't show up at my local DMV in the Los Angeles area, I assume the DMV won't be able to pull up my VIN# no matter what city I try to register the car in. Then what happens? At least in Los Angeles, I am then sent to CARB, where it cost 10k for an inspection and they will force me to put on a ton of expensive smog equipment that will financially kill me.

I found that there are some counties that are smog exempt in California. Tuolumne Ca 95379., Julian Ca. 92036, Burrego Springs Ca. 92004, to name a few. Problem is, even though these small towns are smog exempt, if it is a new purchase where there is a change of ownership they need a smog certificate. This is required only the first time you register the car. After that you never have to worry about smog again. This has been the case in every smog exempt town in Ca. that I've checked so far. This presents some problems. My drivers license will show I live in L.A., not Julian Ca or Burrego Springs. Getting a mailbox may not suffice in these areas. They may ask for a utility bill. I checked and that is the case in Arizona anyway where some towns are smog exempt. But even if I overcome that problem, still the pressing question remains, what happens when I go to one of these small smog exempt towns and they can't pull up my VIN#?

George, if you can PM me and send me George Walker's e-mail I would appreciate it. If George has his car registered, it stands to reason I should be able to as well. I'd be interested to see how George got his car registered. I am pretty sure George has an Amerisport too, same as mine.

I have talked to Kirk Evans before. He says he remembers my GT5-S Amerisport #9465. He told me if I have smog issues, I can ship the car to him and he'd put on the cat converters and whatever else to make it smog legal. I appreciate his offer, but it would be quite an expense to go through the cost of shipping the car back and forth and all the smog modifications that I would need to pay for. There's got to be a better way.

If anyone out there knows the solution to this problem, I'd love to hear it.

Thanks,

David
It appears the root of the problem lies with the VIN#, as getting a smog certificate from somewhere should be doable Wink

You said you have a NY title for it correct? I'd start at the NY DMV and make sure they for one can pull up the VIN# and then try to find out why the VIN# isn't in a national database and how to get it into it.


Julian
By far my biggest problem in trying to register my car is the VIN# of my GT5-S isn't coming up in the Ca. DMV computer. Without the DMV being able to pull up my VIN#, they will direct me to CARB, which would spell serious trouble for me.

Julian, you made an excellent suggestion about how to possibly solve this. I bought the car in New Jersey, and I have the title with the VIN# on it. If New Jersey has the VIN# in their computer, and New Jersey is part of America last I checked, it makes no sense that California wouldn't have it in their system too. I will contact the New Jersey DMV to see why they apparently found the VIN# in their computer while the Ca. DMV didn't. We'll see what happens. Thanks.

David
I am a AAA member. I have called them before. They can do the transfer of vehicle ownership title and everything for you, but if the car is out of state they won't help you.

I called the Ca. DMV today. Turns out the VIN# not being in their computer is a non issue. The DMV rep I spoke with told me that if the car had never been registered in California before, then they would not have a record of it in their computer. When I transfer the car into my name, they will enter the VIN# into their system at that time.

Of course I still will have to figure out a work around for getting the car smogged. But at least the worry I had about the VIN# not showing up is nothing at all to worry about.

Thanks,

David
By your post, I take it the car no longer is smog compliant in terms of the original equipment. If I got that right, how on earth do you plan to get it smogged in CA without cats? I find it hard to believe anyone would smog a car that new with no visual check but beyond that, I don't know how it will ever pass the freaking test? But I guess if the tester is that much of a scammer, he will fudge the test too.
PanteraPatt- When I bought my GT5-S the original engine was long gone. My car has a Fontana engine without a stitch of smog equipment. My challenge will be to find a smog place whose morals become impaired when they see a cash incentive.

There are other possibilities too. My car is an '88. Which means it's 24 1/2 yrs old. I believe I'm eligible for historic plates in just 6 months. That might be another option.

There are a few small towns in California that are smog exempt. Unfortunately apparently in these smog exempt towns you need to get a basic smog cert if there is a change of ownership. But there might be some work arounds to that.

Anyway, I feel somewhat confident I will figure something out.
David, I have a car with Historical plates. I have not had to have a bi-annual smog inspection for 8 years now. When I initially registered it the DMV lady told me that it required a smog initally. I spoke to the boss there at the time and she ordered her to send it to Sacramento to "See" what happens. It went thru. Why I dont know. I have also been told by the DMV that if I sell it smog will be required to transfer the title.

Panterapatt, There are many crooked shops that do illegal smogs every day. If you look on line you see that they get busted a lot too. Doing an illegal smog is really bad for our hobby in that it makes us all look bad. CARB assumes that since there is so much activity that most pre-75 cars are dirty. This is why they are constantly trying to tighten up on the rules for 75 and older.

Although CARB has now stopped doing surprise road side smog inspections for now I have to asssume that they will resume as soon as their budget improves. I used to see them once in a while when the economy was better. The bottom line is driving an illegal car is really difficult and untimately not worth it IMO.
How many people on this forum have 100% stock motors, 100% of the original emissions equipment installed, and still 100% functional as well?

All automobiles sold in the US since 1966 have had federally mandated emissions equipment installed, and by federal law it cannot be removed or altered. Period. I'll bet your 1967 Mustang is not in compliance with federal law. And the heads on your Pantera do not have CARB certification.

Cars in California older than 1975 are free from annual or bi-annual visual inspection and tailpipe emissions testing, but the state cannot reverse a federal law that mandates nobody can alter or remove the smog equipment mandated by the federal government for that year. This is what many people don't understand about California emissions law, older cars are exempt from inspection and testing, but they are never exempt from compliance. The equipment is supposed to stay on 1966 and newer vehicles forever.

The smog shops who try to help enthusiasts are just that, they are business owners trying to help enthusiasts. The kind of shop the average Pantera owner would go to for assistance are owned by good people, not criminals; but by the letter of the law they are criminals. If California informed you tomorrow to take your 1967 Mustang or your 1972 Pantera into an inspection station within the next 30 days, what would you do? Those vehicles are not exempt from compliance with federal law! Wouldn't you start looking for a sympathetic smog shop? I would have to do the same. And we would patronize those shops because we expect the owners of those shops to violate the letter of federal law to help us keep our cars on the road.

In my opinion, if a car passes the tail pipe emissions test, it doesn't matter what equipment is installed on the motor. The spirit of the law is being adhered to, if not the letter of the law. It is fairly easy to tune older cars to pass the tail pipe emissions test. But tailpipe emissions is only half the picture ... is your car's evaporative emissions equipemnt in good order? Smiler


-G
When I purchased my car, the VIN (even if the car was previously registered in the province) did not go in the computer because it is only 7 digits long, the gal did find it but there was also another number on the registration that does have 17 digits.

Could Calif (or other states) be the same?
George,

The same holds true here in Canada. Except here they actively enforce it.

I heard recently that the provincial authority for emissions was pulling over cars exiting a car show and issuing $380.00 fines to those who didn't have the factory-installed emissions equipment still installed. And the fine is PER MISSING component! (EGR Valve, Cats (if applicable), Evap Can, Air pump etc.).

Even if you happen to have a valid e-test it doesn't help because it's the removal they are targeting, not clean air.

Mark
What you need to get for your car to register it in Ca. is a California BAR sticker.
I went through the process to get a BAR sticker for a grey market Ferrari 512BBi,
NOT cheap, easy or fast.
You will need all the smog equipment that Kirk Evans recommends. It needs to be installed just to get the visual inspection passed and then it has to be all set up and tuned to pass the actual smog test.
For more info check ferrarichat.com search for BAR certificate.
Here is a link to a post that explains the basic process:
BAR post
Bottom line is I would not buy another grey market car that does not have an existing California BAR sticker.
There is a reason BAR stickered cars demand a premium in Ca.
"In my opinion, if a car passes the tail pipe emissions test, it doesn't matter what equipment is installed on the motor. The spirit of the law is being adhered to, if not the letter of the law. It is fairly easy to tune older cars to pass the tail pipe emissions test. But tailpipe emissions is only half the picture ... is your car's evaporative emissions equipemnt in good order?"

George, I agree with your statement above. The reason I am againsed shops doing illegal smogs is that they get caught and when they do it brings heat onto us the hobbiest. That is a big problem for me. Of course none of my cars are "stock". What I meant by stating that its not worth driving an illegal car is that it is a pain in the ass. The Bora we have was originally federalized by my dad. I had to take it to smog every two years. We would have to install the cats and de-tune the carbs. It ran like shit. Finally one day the smog tech told me that it had to go to BAR to get a BAR sticker. What a joke it still has it. Now that it is older than 73 no one is looking. My reference is to all post 75 cars in Calif. Its not worth owning them for now unless they change the rules (doubtful) My fear is that they (CARB) will start looking again. If that happens I will buy some shit hole in rural Arizona and "move there" I have given this some thought over the years.
A little observation here by an outsider (outside of California).
Here in NY we use CA numbers on everything.

I think what ultimately you are looking at, is not necessarily adding all of the smog equipment to the car, it is making what you have pass an emission test.

You can talk to Kirk about the entire thing but in my experience that is all the local shop is concerned with.

In my experience, there is no way that you can get through emmisions without cats on the car.
The law doesn't require you to have them, it requires you to make the numbers the machine will show coming out of the tailpipes comply with the law, and you will NEVER achieve that number without them.

Air injection into the exhausts was invented to achieve CA emissions numbers. What the air injection does technically "is permit the engine to continue combustion out side of the combustion chambers to more completely "burn" the "unburned" fuel".

I can tell you from experience, Fords virtually always need this, and it will require a separate air pump to be installed.

In addition, you are highly likely to have to do is install the mid 70's Ford distributor with the vacuum retard connected.

Take my word for it, the car will need to be pushed onto the machine because it will be kicking and sputtering like a diesel.

This is where you are going to turn a legitimate 400hp engine into an anemic 150hp version.

Here in NY, as of last March (2011), we no longer need to run a car on the chassis dyno, or sniff a tailpipe.

As long as your check engine light isn't on, you are going to pass emissions testing. All the tech cares about is the minimum time in his bay so he can get his $37.50 from you and get the next one in.

This is really because of the expense of the equipment and the expense to maintain the testing equipment by independent owner shops (they are all privately owned in NY) for older cars is prohibitive. My '92 SHO doesn't even need to have the engine started now. It is strictly a walk around the car, visual inspection.

Maybe some one will be willing to lend you the parts you need temporarily for the test, but even if you put them all on, you will have no way of knowing if the numbers are clean enough to pass until you bring it for the test, unless you have your own emission machine that is?

Oh...in my days of considering registering the "problem" cars in other zip codes that didn't require emissions testing, another player entered the game. The insurance company. Simply put, they refused to insure a car that I owned to an address at which I did not show residency. How's them apples?

At one time, two states that I know of would register a vehicle by mail from out of state or from a local PO Box. Maine and Alabama.

These are the two states that were registering flat out race cars for the street.

If you look at the Shelby built "continuation Cobras", these cars are being built as 1965 Cobras, as race cars, never being intended to be used on the street. They even are supplied with Goodyear racing tires. Question: How many of them have you seen registered for the streets? How about 99% of them? I'd inquire with people with these cars as well, to see if any can...or will help you.

In any case, best of luck to you.
A GT5-S is not a daily commuter car. It is a car for the auto enthusiast who enjoys the hobby and appreciates a rare car. All I want to do is be able to drive my GT5-S on an occasional weekend, take it to a car show once in a while, and drive it to an event like the POCA convention once a year. Is that so unreasonable?

The current laws in California make it very difficult for the average American to be able to do own a rare car post 1975, because of the expense and misery involved in getting the car smog legal so it can be registered. If I have to take my car to CARB, I've been told they charge $10,000 for the inspection. Then I'd have to spend a ton of money and time putting all the smog equipment on the car. It would be so costly that it would get to the point where it's not even worth it.

In my opinion there should be a provision in the law for a rare low production car of special interest to be exempt from these smog rules. It's just common sense.

But since there isn't, I am left no choice but to find another way. I have the challenge of trying to find a smog shop that can get me a certificate by hook or crook, so to speak.

If there are any smog shop owners out there in California who want to make some extra money please PM me. if there are any Pantera owners out there who have a connection with a smog shop please PM me.

Thanks,

David
I agree that it should be about tailpipe emissions. Unfortunately, we have two things going against us:

1. It goes without saying that the emissions systems of '70's and early '80's cars weren't great.
2. The Feds need some policy to follow, so they stick to the idea that outdated emissions gear are as important as the reason for the emissions equipment's existence.

Kirk Evans developed his system and wrote (in a nutshell) that it wasn't hard to engineer, but hard to get it thru the bureaucracy.

Sorry that I can't help solve the problem. Utah's vintage vehicle laws don't require emissions or inspection. Plus, it costs $10 per year to register.
David,
A smog shop no matter how nefarious they are will not be able to give you what you want.
Your car is not registered in CA and thus not in the system there is no connection for them to issue you a smog certificate. You will need to go through the BAR sticker registration process that I linked to in my previous post.
I know this is not what you want to hear but I went through this process with several post 1975 imported vehicles. The only option around this is to register outside CA. You will see grey market exotics Boxers, Countachs etc... down here with Oregon plates. California makes it very hard to own imported vehicles like ours.
quote:
Originally posted by adoberetreat:
A GT5-S is not a daily commuter car. It is a car for the auto enthusiast who enjoys the hobby and appreciates a rare car. All I want to do is be able to drive my GT5-S on an occasional weekend, take it to a car show once in a while, and drive it to an event like the POCA convention once a year. Is that so unreasonable?

The current laws in California make it very difficult for the average American to be able to do own a rare car post 1975, because of the expense and misery involved in getting the car smog legal so it can be registered. If I have to take my car to CARB, I've been told they charge $10,000 for the inspection. Then I'd have to spend a ton of money and time putting all the smog equipment on the car. It would be so costly that it would get to the point where it's not even worth it.

In my opinion there should be a provision in the law for a rare low production car of special interest to be exempt from these smog rules. It's just common sense.

But since there isn't, I am left no choice but to find another way. I have the challenge of trying to find a smog shop that can get me a certificate by hook or crook, so to speak.

If there are any smog shop owners out there in California who want to make some extra money please PM me. if there are any Pantera owners out there who have a connection with a smog shop please PM me.

Thanks,

David


I'm not here to bash California, but California has it's own special issues. You are allowed to have your '88 Pantera, the way it was built, not the way it is now.
Write to your legislator, or better yet, Arnold. I'm sure, "he'll be back" to you? Wink
quote:
Originally posted by Murph:
David,
A smog shop no matter how nefarious they are will not be able to give you what you want.
Your car is not registered in CA and thus not in the system there is no connection for them to issue you a smog certificate. You will need to go through the BAR sticker registration process that I linked to in my previous post.
I know this is not what you want to hear but I went through this process with several post 1975 imported vehicles. The only option around this is to register outside CA. You will see grey market exotics Boxers, Countachs etc... down here with Oregon plates. California makes it very hard to own imported vehicles like ours.


I am not in CA but wonder whether that is really true as it implies that any car not previously registered in CA cannot get a smog certificate and I doubt that is true. Either DMV gets the VIN in the system first and you go for smog or the smog station manually enters it. Here in NV you need a smog prior to going to DMV so the station manually enters out of state vehicle details.

There are loads of Oregon plated cars here in Reno, I'm told OR registration costs are very low.

Julian
What this most likely means is that the car will need to be taken the the BAR referee to verify that it in fact passes smog visual and tail pipe. If it passes they install a sticker on the door jamb that identifies what equipment is required for this specific car. Our Bora has this done years ago. Even though it is a 73 and it does not required cats we would not ge it to run clean enough without them. The BAR sticker show that cats and smog pump is required. Most likely this will be the procedure. If the car runs clean enough its fairly easy. If it wont run clean that is where the problems begin.
Julian, you are a cerebral guy to be sure. Good observation about it not making sense that all out of state vehicles entering California cannot get smogged and are referred to CARB or BAR. That would make it a nightmare for anyone living in Ca. to buy an out of state car. Yet out of state cars are bought here all the time.

As I understand it, when I go to the Ca. DMV, I will give them the NJ title and they will enter the VIN# into their system as is the usual practice for out of state cars that have never been in California. Next they will have a visual inspection of my car to physically check my VIN# on the car. Next they will send me to a smog shop. The part I am scared about is that because I don't have cats or any smog equip on the car I might have trouble at some point along the journey to register the car, not to mention the challenge of finding a "Cooperative" smog shop here.

But I have formulated another plan. I'll know soon if it will work.

Thanks,

David
When you bring a car into CA - any car - you take it to DMV. They do the physical inspection on the VIN. You can take it to AAA - they will do the same thing. You must take it to a smog test center to have it smogged. No smog, no registration. If the car is NOT a 50-state smog legal car - meaning it has a 50-state emission sticker on it - GAME OVER. You might as well not go any further unless you want to play the BAR sticker game explained by someone in this thread (e.g. get alot of money ready). If it is a 50-state car, they smog it. But your car will never pass smog as it has been completely modified and will never be compliant.

So your choice is to give up or find a scam artist that will forge your smog. Good luck with that.
I know this trick is used a lot by the Ferrari crowd to not pay sales tax where they really live. It is all 100% legal, but not sure how ethical it is. Anyway, the deal is, you have a lawyer draw up a Montana LLC to own your car (you of course own the Montana LLC) -- then the lawyer gets it registered with plates in Montana. There is no tax liability and after an amount of time you can transfer the registration of that car into your state tax free. I believe there is an amount of time the car needs to be physically in Montana to be truly legal-- but the lawyer would be able to answer that question.

Not quite sure if this would work in So Cal? I thought that there are laws against out of state rides not matching the driver's license state -- but I have no idea as I don't live in So Cal. Anyway, thought others would at least like seeing how the 1% does it -- and I know this is legal as well; I have not done this, but I know those that have and it really does work. So if you're purchasing a $2 million car it probably makes sense to do this, but not a $50,000 car. Just wondering if this would work with what you want to do to drive the car in So Cal -- my guess would be this is not what you're looking for, but here is the link anyway:

Sales Tax Free Car Register MONTANA


Best of luck -- let us know what you come up for a work around to getting your car registered in CA. We want to know!

Mark
Maybe something has changed in the last 10 or so years but when the State law was changed exempting cars of 73 vintage or older from smog tests I took my Oregon licensed twin blown car to the DMV to get it registered in California. All that was required was a visual verification of the VIN. No smog at that time.
quote:
Originally posted by Joules5:
quote:
Originally posted by Murph:
David,
A smog shop no matter how nefarious they are will not be able to give you what you want.
Your car is not registered in CA and thus not in the system there is no connection for them to issue you a smog certificate. You will need to go through the BAR sticker registration process that I linked to in my previous post.
I know this is not what you want to hear but I went through this process with several post 1975 imported vehicles. The only option around this is to register outside CA. You will see grey market exotics Boxers, Countachs etc... down here with Oregon plates. California makes it very hard to own imported vehicles like ours.


I am not in CA but wonder whether that is really true as it implies that any car not previously registered in CA cannot get a smog certificate and I doubt that is true. Either DMV gets the VIN in the system first and you go for smog or the smog station manually enters it. Here in NV you need a smog prior to going to DMV so the station manually enters out of state vehicle details.

There are loads of Oregon plated cars here in Reno, I'm told OR registration costs are very low.

Julian


If the Montana thing works out ok, but two things come to mind.

First, vehicles registered to a business rather then an individual pay Commercial insurance rates. That is usually around 300% more the an individuals insurance.

Second, make sure what the states minimum corporate income tax is for that state.

In NY, the minimum tax would be $950, whether or not the corporation had any business or not.

The attorneys here don't refer to it as an income tax, which it is, they refer to it as a franchise fee.
Sorry David I led the conversation off on a tangent with my statement: "Your car is not registered in CA and thus not in the system there is no connection for them to issue you a smog certificate."
I should have said "your car is not CA smog legal" instead of "not registered in CA".

Panterpatt put it the most cleanly:

quote:
Originally posted by Panterapatt:
When you bring a car into CA - any car - you take it to DMV. They do the physical inspection on the VIN. You can take it to AAA - they will do the same thing. You must take it to a smog test center to have it smogged. No smog, no registration. If the car is NOT a 50-state smog legal car - meaning it has a 50-state emission sticker on it - GAME OVER. You might as well not go any further unless you want to play the BAR sticker game explained by someone in this thread (e.g. get alot of money ready). If it is a 50-state car, they smog it. But your car will never pass smog as it has been completely modified and will never be compliant.


Good Luck, I hope to see your car here locally soon.
Really interesting topic. The legal ownership issue is an interesting slight of hand (sorry if this is off topic on smogging but it may be very relevant and ties into the Montana titling of a car by the Ferrari owners).

I owned a large boat a few years back in partnership with three other buddies (kinda like a timeshare), we owned the boat in a Delaware corporation for liability issues in case one of the partners had an accident with the boat the liability wouldn't flow to all of us personally, the injured party could sue the corporation but the only asst was the boat. When a "documented vessel" is purchased in California there is a large Use Tax that the state hits you for and to avoid it many boat owners were taking newly purchased boats out of the country, parking them in a marina in Mexico for 6+ months, then bring the boat back into the country and avoid this tax...it was a very substantial $$ amount like 8 or 9% of the boats value. When we sold this boat, all we did was sell the shares/stock of the corporation to the new owner...and to our surprise since the boats ownership didn't change (it stayed in the corporation) the new owner didn't have to pay the California documented vessel use tax...we never intended this to happen when we put the ownership of the boat in the Delaware corporation. Of course the new owner was ecstatic because he just got an 8-9% reduction in his total cost to purchase the boat.

Here's possibly the Ferrari owners fix...register the car in Montana...possibly they don't require a home address for a property in that state to do registration...get a PO Box and register the car to that address, meet Montana requirements for registering the car, pay their annual registration fees, but drive the car here in California legally with plates and registration from Montana or another state? One of my neighbors had all his cars registered in New Mexico at the hotel he owned there. He saved on annual registration fees and insurance by doing this. He did it for at least 15 years that I know of.
I found a performance shop fairly close to my house that works on hot rods and muscle cars. This is a very busy shop with lots of early and late model cars in their garage being worked on. A fair amount of these cars are post 1975. Most of these cars have absolutely no smog or cat converters, yet I noticed these cars all have Ca. plates and current registration. I was thinking to myself, "How can that be?" So I asked to speak to the manager. I told the manager about my worries of getting my '88 GT5-S smogged. The manager says he has connections and that he will get me a smog certificate no problem. His performance shop has a sort of symbiotic relationship with a smog shop where he sends all of his customers. The manager says he has sent literally hundreds and possibly thousands of cars to this "special" smog shop and for $300 they will produce me with a smog certificate. He said it benefits his performance shop to take care of his customers and get their cars on the road. And it benefits the smog shop by obtaining lots of business.

Some people who live by the letter of the law might find this all very disgusting. As for me, I believe daily commuter cars should have proper smog equipment. We all want clean air. But for the car enthusiast who wants to own a hot rod or muscle car or rare breed of car for the occasional weekend drive that doesn't intend to use the car as a daily commuter car, there should be a provision in the law to allow the car enhusiast to enjoy his car. What this performance shop is doing is what I call poetic justice.

But anyway, I want to try to register my car out of state first. That way I won't have to worry about having to smog my car every two years. I'll know by next week if I am successful.

As for the performance shop, I can't mention which one it is. The manager asked me not to mention their nefarious ways or I could blow it for everyone.

So it appears I should be able to get my '88 GT5-S registered and on the road here in Ca.

David
quote:
The manager asked me not to mention their nefarious ways or I could blow it for everyone.

So you mentioned it anyway... I know you didn't say the name but it isn't to hard to figure out where a performance shop is near Tujunga.

You may want to edit your post...
I can very much relate to your woes with the Cali DMV. I went through quite a few years of hell trying to find shops to "pass" a blower motor vehicle. Shops would get busted and then I'd be back to square one. Be very cautious - one shop showed me where the smog testing equipment has built in cameras for vehicle verification by the powers that be. The fines are enormous. Once that old blazer turned 25 I was able to get out of that loop and didn't have to smog again, but that was some years ago and I'm sure stuff has become even more strict. Best of luck!
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