CLEVOR IS THE WAY TO GO!

Is this a drag racing motor?

The motor they are building for me or the one they built for the Engine Master Competition?

The one they are building for me me, definitely NOT!

The entries in the Engine Master Competition are generally built specific for that competition. The rules this year specify a cubic inch displacment of no more than 434 cubic inches and a compression ratio of no greater than 10.5 to 1.

The winner is the engine builder who builds the motor with the greatest average horsepower and torque from 2500-6500 rpms. They are definitely focused on having the builders enter motors that are focused on the street versus a drag motor, at least from where I sit.

wow do you have a build sheet??

Chris you took your business to Mark. Let me know how it goes. Nothing but good feedback so far. Mark knows Clevelands. (Clevors too)

I second Wayne's question, what's the details?

George

Wayne - The basic specs for my motor are:

Dart Windosr Iron Eagle Block, 9.5 inche deck height, 4.125 in bore.

Scat Forged Lightweight Crank, 4.00 stroke

CHI 218cc, 3V heads

Forged pistons for 11 to 1 compression, brand TBD

Forged connecting rods, brand and length TBD

Mechanical roller valve train, Jesel shaft rockers, jesel lifters with forced oiling feature. Rocker ratios TBD by McKeown.

Cam will be a custom grind, specs TBD by McKeown. I think the lift figures will be no more than .620-.630

They are saying the motor should be 600+HP and I am trying to get 500 ft/lbs torque from 2500-6500 rpms. The engine will mechanically be able to sustain 7200 rpm.

That's all I know right now.

Mark's shop is just a few miles from me. If there is ever anything I can do to help a board member please let me know.

MME has a excellent reputation with Cleveland (and Clevor) motors.

http://www.mmeracing.com/mmeracing/

@johnk
Thanks John. I'll come back to you if the time is right to swap my original (low compressio, low RPM, low power etc.) Cleveland to a "reliable" Crate Engine.
I heard horrible stories about US-Crate engines, so it will be an big advantage to have an "oncle" close to the place of the engine builder.

My goal is clear: I would like to stick with a Cleveland with an, as much as possible, original apperance in the Engine bay..

My personal opinion .. DJEZC ... with those specs ... your going over 600hp. I seen 500 out of a stock CI intake and exhuast manifolds for a stocker drag racer class.

Ron

Final results are in. MMC was the 3rd place Ford entry, scoring a total of 1059.2 combined average HP plus torque versus the 2nd place 1059.9. They actually would have been the 2nd place Ford, but actually lost an oil filter seal on one pull. All the Fords were Cleveland headed. Absolutely incredible finish and clearly no loosers in the group...

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/challeng...enge_results_friday/

I know there are secrets to be kept in a showdown like this, but a general overview of the engines would be helpful for those of us that are not George or Daniel!!
Do they list any general info on these engines anywhere?
Mooso

There are many secrets for a engine thats only going to do a dozen pulls on a dyno. But yes some basic components of the Ford engines would be nice.

Ron

The engine masters challenge was set at 434 cubic inches this year & 10.0:1 compression ratio. Entries could be small blocks or big blocks.

Scott Johnson of reincarnation high performance, a member of 3rd place team #37 had this to say:

"This contest ended up being about matching appropriate intake port cross section, velocity and good charge motion past the intake valve and nothing more. The big block combos made better peak HP but fell way short on torque and average numbers because the intake ports available for the big blocks are unsuitable for the 434 inch displacement. Also of importance was the ability to maintain good VE at the top with the small ports. My intake ports were only 225 CC's finished with minimal increase in minimum cross sectional area.

We made a best peak HP of 689 HP at 6,400 RPM and 631 pound feet of torque at 4,900 carrying over 600 pounds from 4400 to 5900 RPM. Our HP peak carried for many hundred RPM past the peak which varied from 6,200 to 6,500 depending on the tune and pull.

The inline small block heads just dont seem the be able to flow the numbers of the chi heads and still have good port velocity. I suppose that is why many did not even bother showing up. It is rumored that many did not show because of disappointing results."

5 of the top 6 finishers entered CHI headed (Cleveland style canted valve heads) Windsor motors, aka Clevors. The only non-Clevor entry among the top 6 was Jon Kaase, finishing second place with a big block Pontiac.

What I want to point out is..... where's the small block Chevys? Where's the big block Chevys? Mopars? Big block Fords?

5 out of the 6 top finishers were running Cleveland heads. Heads whose design is about 38 years old. CHI, raised small port Cleveland heads (aka 3V). Feeding 434 cubic inch motors. The top entry made 714 bhp with these heads.

Long Live The Cleveland

> What I want to point out is..... where's the small block Chevys? Where's the
> big block Chevys? Mopars? Big block Fords?

Remember that not all cylinder heads were legal for this competition.
Only those classified as "street" heads were allowed so heads like the
Ford Motorsport C302B's or Brodix BF300's (both of which are better
than the CHI 3V's) were not allowed, let alone something like the state
of the art FRPP D3's. By and large, the small block Chevy guys didn't
even bother to show up (only one made the show). My guess is they
realized there were no SBC heads legal for the competition that were
capable of flowing enough to win. The Chevy guys showed up with canted
valve big blocks but the port sizes on those really weren't well suited
to the displacement and compression rules. A few years back Kaase won
the big block competition by welding up a set of BBF heads to bring the
port sizes way down. Did you see they let one of the Mopar guys (Hinkle
Performance) run a W9 induction package? Supposedly the those heads were
flowing in the 370 CFM range bu Hinkle had to drop out due to a retainer
failure. I was surprised to see the Windsors doing so poorly. By my
reading of the rules, most of the race Windsor heads should have been
legal but it's still tough to compete with a canted valve head.

Dan Jones