Dashboard

The small metal bars are there from the factory for a reason. The nature of the original vinyl keeps the material from completely bonding to the fiberglass material the dash is made of with just an adhesive.

Even with them, there is some degree of movement of the vinyl from expansion and contraction and that is unavoidable. It is a side effect of the design of the dash.

Time wise of the dash in and out, considering all of the connections that you need to make is about a day in and a day out. You can cosmetically damage some of the components that you need to disconnect and it is possible to crack the front windshield glass under certain conditions.

This isn't a simple undertaking at all.

Keep in mind that screwing with the original Detomaso wiring harness under the dash is not child's play. It is more of a nightmare and you want to avoid handling the thing at all unless you are VERY experienced with identifying each and everyone on sight. They are not labeled and it is very easy to get confused.

There are several "updated" versions of the factory wiring diagram and basically, they are all like "tits on a bull...totally useless".

Working on it requires a lot of concentration and documenting of what gets connected to what with something like a Ptouch label maker. This is not for the faint of heart.

Apparently the harness can vary according to the time period in which the car was built as well further complicating using the factory wiring diagrams? Some harnesses from the factory have pigtails spliced in that do not have continuous color codes.

At some point with the dash out, you will need to deal with the fuse panel and you need to keep track of the polarity of the wires, i.e., which side of the fuses they go to. The factory used different phasing of the stripes on the stripped wires to keep track of that.

I would leave the thing alone unless the loose vinyl is so severe that it looks like the car was in some sort of disaster like a flood or fire.

I've had mine out several times and even switched from a dual pod to a single pod and still find confusion on some of the big circuit carrying wires that seem to be redundant in certain cases.

In addition, those quick connect wire ends on the Bosh or Lucas switches come loose easily once connected and disconnect and will add to the short circuit fire hazards if they ground out.

All that isn't worth the risks if it is just for a low level cosmetic issue that will reoccur after you have corrected it.

You may have convinced me to leave well enough alone, but you've done it several times, so either you love doing this or you did it on different cars.

If I want to go with the metal bar fix, where can they be purchased?

My car is modified so another modification does not matter. I like the 74 dash so much better than the 72. If I was to remove the dash, why not replace it with a 74. Do you know where I might be able to get my hands on one?

@tomkuester posted:

You may have convinced me to leave well enough alone, but you've done it several times, so either you love doing this or you did it on different cars.

If I want to go with the metal bar fix, where can they be purchased?

My car is modified so another modification does not matter. I like the 74 dash so much better than the 72. If I was to remove the dash, why not replace it with a 74. Do you know where I might be able to get my hands on one?

I've never seen those bars listed as available from anyone so I would speculate that you are going to need to source those from a used dash.

Maybe Bosswrench has a handle on that but considering he is using a GT40 dash rather then a Pantera dash, maybe that's a suggestion of what you are getting into?

You need to make the usually rounds of vendors. Hall at one time was THE source for original parts but Wilkinson has really replaced him but even so is nowhere near as comprehensive parts wise.

You could try Larry Stock since he specializes to an extent in Pantera "racing parts" and may have some "take offs" available?

Again, if you are going to a single pod, I'd highly recommend the "euro/fiberglass version" rather then the USA plastic version. One of the Byers brothers had the mold for that at Procession Proformance but since they have now both passed, I don't know the situation.

Detomaso was a bit of a "hot rod shop" on items like this and usually found sources for generic parts in Europe that would work? That is really pretty obvious when you start to find where certain parts like the switches, defroster ducts and the like came from like Fiat, BMW, Alfa, Lancia, etc.

No, I have not worked on several cars. All of this is learned from hard knocks on mine. I've had mine since 1985 and have had it completely apart more then once.

Sometimes I am my own worst enemy since it always seems like if I am doing a repair, why not do an upgrade at the same time if I deem that as inevitable?

So in the sense that you only learn from your mistakes, I must be a genius by now and yet the general consensus is that I am not? I would add that often I am my own worst critic. It's kind of "the Emperor has no clothes" thing and others sympathetically won't mention it to me.

I have seen a factory package of the two (one short, one longer) dash pad bars at Larry Stock's shop in Nevada. The embedded studs remind me of the same arrangement that holds the original vinyl down on the firewall bubble between the seats- don't know what thread but tiny-metric. The hex nuts will be above the glove box so that must come out for installation,

Consider if your vinyl is bulging away from the fiberglas due to shrinkage, that installing some kind of bolt-down bar to draw it back may overstress the vinyl to the point of tearing it. Heating it beforehand may help. I personally do not need the minute amount of flat area I would gain, enough to risk destroying the OEM vinyl.

What LED bulbs did you use?

The LED bulbs came from Pantera Electronics. jhmotorwerke@gmail.com .  there are white, green and blue options. I chose the white.

There is a newer dash on eBay for sale now. But be careful.

@tomkuester it is not that bad! I’m doing that job right now again on another pantera..  

just make a lot of pictures as you go along..

it was 3 hours to get the dash out… another 30 minutes to empty the dash ..

you do not have to take the center console apart.. or disconnect anything there!

most stuff has a big multi plug on it to take it apart… There are some individual wires which do not have it… Just get a label maker and mark them… two or three wires that I cut and put connectors on them..  not as hard is described above…

when I did my car, My phone died and I lost all the pictures.

That was my big downfall

make a few videos as well… Sometimes you miss something in the pictures, but it shows up in the video

The heater box is removed as well in this picture - you don’t have to do that

I substitute the the screws holding on the dashboard with studs, which made it so much easier because you do not have to find the hole. You just planted it in and put the nut on and you’re done.

Now here is my absolute personal preference… I might get some heat for that, but that’s the way I am… The stuff from Pantera electronics probably works just fine and I did use the little “chip” for the generator light substituting the bulky resistor… but I personally would never use any of the other parts for one simple reason… I cannot check what happens on those electronic components if anything doesn’t work. Yes, the fuse box is 50 years old and I had it out and I cleaned it up and I bent the contacts back where they’re supposed to be and it’s working fine now but if anything doesn’t work, I can go with A multimeter on it and measure it in. I know what’s wrong,  on the other thing I do not know what I’m looking at..

But it’s just me being old and stubborn

That's quite a remarkable and cool transition. You are having fun!

I've looked at that e-bay dashboard and don't like the details. Can't tell if it's black or dark gray either.

@tomkuester posted:

I've looked at that e-bay dashboard and don't like the details. Can't tell if it's black or dark gray either.

Does it come with the 3 vents on top? I do not know if they are available anywhere

if you look hard enough you will find this dash in different locations and with several photos. I don't remember if it has cutouts for the vents.

It has to three round holes on the top… you see them in the pictures with the vents in it but in the description it says it’s only the dashboard with nothing else..

The square vents in the front you probably can use from your two pot dashboard

The attachment for the single pot dashboard are different…

For those of you that are really getting into this subject, on the back of the folded factory schematic in the back of the BLUE Owners Manual (the earlier one), is a factory shot of the BACKSIDE of the two-pod dash with all the devices connected and a listing of all the wires and their colors you find underneath. Quite informative if you didn't keep a careful listing when you pulled a dash!

Sorry- not much help if you have a single-pod example, or you only have a repro example of the early manual which didn't include the folded schematic.

I think the two pod looks better… Yes, you can only see half of the instruments, but I don’t have to see everything… I don’t need to see everything

Reinstalling the original dual pod v. changing the two pod to the single pod raises some questions and with a new fiberglass dash, you need to cut in all of the holes.

You can see the impressions lightly in the gel coat where the mold was copied from an existing single pod dash so that I used as a guide.

I recommend labeling everything on the wiring. If you are accustomed to working with electronic equipment it may come easier to you. I am not.

When everything is out and the harness is just hanging there, you will be surprised how fast you forget where everything went to?

Incidentally, Ptouch has a new feature in that you can now label shrink tube in the label maker.

In my case the mounting points of the dual pod and single pod are the same. I can not testify that Mr. Byers didn't make a hybrid for me knowing what I was doing and putting the mounts in the single pod as where he knew the dual pod mounts were? I don't think so, but that is possible.

The tricky things were deciding 1) Where the defroster grills went. You get one straight that you need to cut a hole in the top of the heater box for that doesn't exist in the dual pod heater box. That is the center defroster grill and is the straight one.

2) Then you have to decide where to put the grate with the 45° elbow and the one with the 90° elbow. I put the 45 on the passenger side and the 90 on the driver side.

3) You need to flatten the duct to the driver side grill slightly to get over the speedometer housing

You need to take the steering column out completely to access the last dash mount. Then the speedometer bracket from underneath where the steering column is mounted. That is the only access point that you have to it. Then put the steering column back in.

If you are considering doing the EPS installation, that is the time to do it.

What I found with the console gauges is that the there is very little room for using the factory white gang plugs and that even relocating them slightly is tough but it is easier to take the console out to deal with the changes to the heater/defroster box that you need to make.

IF you research you WILL find that there are two heater boxes listed by Detomaso as well as two consoles listed. Both refer to the single pod v. dual pod, BUT you don't need to change either when going to the single pod, just modify the dual pod items to fit the single pod.

On the dual pod AC grill cages, as installed in the dual pod,  will not fit the single pod.

You need to trim the sheet metal on the top and bottom of the metal ducts and refinish them. In the picture I am posting, you can get an idea of what I did with those ducts I think. Those sleeves needed to be covered in leather as the original vinyl is not flexible enough to survive the trimming of the sheet metal edges.

I also used leather on covering the dash. You need to stretch the leather which is a little tricky. I  used oak veneer inserts in the single pod but you could just leave that black but it is gloss black because that is gell coat.

The original factory single pod is not going to have provisions for the two additional gauges that I used in my dash, i.e., the vacuum and fuel pressure gauges.

There Detomasso installed additional warning lights until you get to somewhere in the late 1980's where they offered an option of two addition gauges in those locations.

Someone who works on this combination all the time will be able to accomplish this in the suggested time that Lemans suggests but I wouldn't bet the family fortune on that time schedule. I certainly can't with all of the change considerations that went into my build.

Maybe using an original USA single pod will expedite the installation but knowing how the mounting brackets are attached with an epoxy bonding adhesive, similar to how the plastic bumper covers are attached to the supports on the current production vehicles, I wouldn't be surprised if there were issues with those in one or more locations coming loose?

If you look closely at the detail on the AC outlet, you will see that the top and bottom edges needed to be removed to fit into the dash. The leather sleeve that I made I left long and rolled it to give the effect that it is molded.

I do have a pair of the newer rectangular AC outlet grates but liked the results of my modification of the originals so I left them as you see them.

There is some sheetmetal work underneath also to be done to the heater/AC box and in aligning those to the heater/defroster/ac box beneath them.

Well if I wasn't convinced about doing this swap, I'm now convinced not to it only to correct a shrunken vinyl wrap. That's a great deal of work. If I had electrical problems as well, I'd be on it, but everything is original and still works.

Thank you Doug.

I would get the original recovered … That’s all I would do…

The single pod dash does NOT bolt to the original places of the two pod dash!! There would be welding required!

Now,  I had a nice idea again…

I do like working with fiberglass… If you are the same way, here is an idea for you:

take your dashboard out, strip the vinyl off, cut out the two pods,  loose the piece in between where I installed my clock, put the pods in a slight angle so the speedo and Tachometer are missing the structure for the steering column (That’s why the single pod instruments are so cross eyed ) and fiberglass them in place (or  make a new piece similar to the single pod dashboard and have a hybrid) and then let it be recovered …

Now that would be a very cool panel and all the attachments fit, and you can read your instruments

@tomkuester posted:

Well if I wasn't convinced about doing this swap, I'm now convinced not to it only to correct a shrunken vinyl wrap. That's a great deal of work. If I had electrical problems as well, I'd be on it, but everything is original and still works.

Thank you Doug.

I guess that it is as simple as you want to make it? There is quite a bit of work in mine but when you enjoy it, it isn't work at all.

As far as a single pod not bolting up exactly as a dual pod does, all I can say is, mine did.

If I was a pilot like Lemans is, everyone would need to have a parachute just in case, but only because all of the work that I did on the plane?

Hmm @panteradoug how was you r dash bolted on?

my 2 pod has 3 or 4 of them with a matching bracket in the dash (originally holding clips for sheet metal screws, and I substituted with studs)

single pod has… nothing up there (also, there is a sheel metal square on the single versus just a sheet metal piece sticking out on the double..)

2 pod dash: nothing at the ends

Single pod:

nothing to do with parachutes… But what’s not there… is not there.. did you just use the four bottom screws to hold it?

Or did DeTomaso made a “double dipping” and had everything on it on your car for both styles of dash…

It appears that all Pantera interiors are painted yellow. Certainly mine is. No need to answer.

@tomkuester posted:

It appears that all Pantera interiors are painted yellow. Certainly mine is. No need to answer.

But I want to… Especially the BLACK cars..

…well that’s how you find your true color..

@LeMans850i posted:

Hmm @panteradoug how was you r dash bolted on?

my 2 pod has 3 or 4 of them with a matching bracket in the dash (originally holding clips for sheet metal screws, and I substituted with studs)

single pod has… nothing up there (also, there is a sheel metal square on the single versus just a sheet metal piece sticking out on the double..)

2 pod dash: nothing at the ends

Single pod:

nothing to do with parachutes… But what’s not there… is not there.. did you just use the four bottom screws to hold it?

Or did DeTomaso made a “double dipping” and had everything on it on your car for both styles of dash…

At the time I wasn't thinking about documenting the installation so I didn't take pictures. As it turns out I would have lost those anyway in a hard drive crash.

My reply to you is that my single pod mounted exactly like the dual pod does. Four screws into the factory welded in brackets.

The only difference in mounting was in accessing the screw behind the speedometer through the speedometer mounting hole.

Since this was a dash built for me by Bob Byers, and I didn't have a 74 USA plastic single pod to compare it to, I can't tell you if there is a difference between the two.

Having said that though, there was no discussion between he and I about mounting differences because I never discussed what I was replacing with the new one.

He had the molds to make them and was the supplier at least to Hall of fiberglass Pantera parts.

How did you determine that the single pod and dual pod use different mounting points?  My car is 4460. It was built in September of '72. It is an L and some call it a 72-1/2 model.

What differences there are in bracketry compared to a 1973 or 1974 build I would not know. Only someone who has worked on many Panteras CHANGING THE DASH's would know for sure and I'd speculate that they would only know how they were different would be because of what they were doing to the car, often oblivious to other differences that didn't effect them?

Again, only speculation on my part, but this dash fits perfectly to the car and the mounting presented no issue except the speedometer hole one.

If you have further questions, I have no issue in answering them to the best of my ability. So ask away.

I will go back and re-emphasize that I think changing out the dash as I did is not for a novice to attempt. There are just too many little details that need to be dealt with that are specializations in reality. That is just my opinion or more correctly my caution to anyone considering this.

I will go and look at my single pod again and see if I notice differences with mine and those that you post pictures of.

One, right off the bat is mine was supplied as smooth, with no grain in it as you posted.

As a result I'm thinking the mold that Byers lifted was from a Euro car rather then a USA car?

I see… The dashboard you installed was made for the purpose Of substituting two pod dashboards… it wasn’t a single pod dashboard From a single pod car…

my car is like yours (72 1/2 #4679 L)

the dash on eBay is a real dash for a single pod car..

it makes sense that they changed the mounting points because the four screws under the windshield are a pain in the ass.

@LeMans850i posted:

I see… The dashboard you installed was made for the purpose Of substituting two pod dashboards… it wasn’t a single pod dashboard From a single pod car…

my car is like yours (72 1/2 #4679 L)

the dash on eBay is a real dash for a single pod car..

it makes sense that they changed the mounting points because the four screws under the windshield are a pain in the ass.

Myself, just being a lamb in the woods, never thought to ask that. Both Byers brothers have passed as has Gary Hall.

I just bought a single pod dash. To my memory, there were no questions about what car serial number it was going into?

That was probably 10 years ago so I do not remember the discussion precisely.

The only precise answer would be to put the four dashes together for comparison. 1) the dual pod 2) the US single pod from the '74 model 3)the single pod from a Euro pantera and 4) mine.

That would be the only way to determine what exactly was done?

I do know that my single pod does not have the same mounting provision as that shown in the above picture on the ends. There are mounts there but they are concealed within (underneath) so the mold wasn't lifted from a US single pod dash.