Engine installation

Makes sense to me and probably random engine block date codes at best if you mean compared to the "actual build date" of Panteras. Of course, the engine block date codes are associated with when an engine block was cast at the foundry, not when an engine was built or when an engine, accessories and all, was shipped to Italy to be installed in a Pantera to answer your first question.

On all Ford built engines besides the casting dates of the components, there is an assembly date hand stamped into one of the casting ears on the front of the block.

Usually, that is about a week to ten days after the casting date on the block. On US built cars the build date would be about a week after the block is assembled.

I'm not sure if this subject was ever discussed in relation to Panteras but keep in mind the engines were shipped the cheapest way to Italy. Now the block was cast at the Cleveland foundry but I don't know if it was assembled there or where the assembly plant actually was.

The cheapest way would have been by boat and you would have to allow for the time to get from the assembly plant to the port of departure.

A month time in between might be on the tight side? Six weeks maybe?

Then who says that they were installed into the Panteras by the oldest first? Probably just the ones in the front of the pile went in first?

Thanks for the information

If you are attempting to determine if the engine in you car is original to it's build, look for a stamped in number on the rear, upper left side of the block. That number will match the engine number plate pop riveted to the car.

IF the block should have another number stamped on it such as 3T02Rxxxxxx, then it is a block from a US produced vehicle and means the engine or the block was replaced with a used one.

Todd, YES to your first question!

Second answer is not so simple.  Not sure of what delay you would expect to see! But I would think that many would have similar dates due to "batch shipping" See below..... Months to weeks before your car was built would certainly be the case.  Only in the US could you expect to see "weeks" or days......

To Doug's comments: 

He potentially "could" have an "over the counter" replacement, which would most certainly be manufactured after his original.......as indicated by the date casting.    But any block stamped with a number longer than the number on the  VIN plate is likely a Ford passenger car engine....swapped in.

Ford likely shipped DeT "batches" of engines at a time. These came from orders for spare parts, and they were NOT pulled from production.      The Mangusta guys discovered that a large batch of their engines were all produced at about the same time and all shipped in one  batch, excluding the HiPo 289 cars at the beginning of prototyping and production, and the late cars...... AND then there was the strike at the assembly plant and DeT grabbed whatever he could get including industrial pump/generator engines!  Who knows when they were cast, but they were painted baby poop yellow originally!

Cheers!
Steve

I have seen many cars with original blocks in them like mine.  The "engine number" that deTomaso stamped in the upper left side of the block that corresponds to the engine number on the plate riveted to the body doesn't seem to correlate what so ever with the chassis numbers.  For instance, my motor number is a higher number than other cars I have seen with higher serial numbers - the point being I believe the factory didn't give a crap about what motor they picked.  They simply built the car with the next motor from the pile.  You would have to assume somebody had the job of inventorying  motors, stamping the number on each and making the corresponding body tag.  Or perhaps Ford pre-stamped the motor numbers before they shipped them.  That I dont know.

Patt,

Two things.....

Thing 1: It was Italian production......  Stop lights were/are "like suggestions" as I was told by an Italian coworker outside of Rome back in the 80's.  Sequence numbers on engines may have been the same!

Thing 2: 50-ish years have passed!   There could have been a problem with your original engine and it was replaced "out of line" or not.  Like you surmise it may have just been the next one inline in the warehouse!   Could it have been replaced by a Pantera vendor that may have had a few lying around?

To take your search one notch further, focus on your casting dates.   You'll find the block, heads, intake, distributor all with dates stamped or cast into them.  The engine components should all be within 3-5 weeks of each other.  Perhaps a bit longer on the distributor as that probably came from an external vendor and not the casting (steel) line.

Compare any deltas you find with cars near yours in sequence #'s.

Roll from there!!!
Cheers!
Steve

The engine number and the engine number tag pop riveted to the body of the car are supposed to match.

This is FORD's way of identifying engines for their Waranty program.

IF it were me and I saw unmatching numbers on the car it would SUGGEST to me that the engine block was replaced previous to the current owner or owner's knowledge with an engine block/engine out of another Pantera.

It may be that the engines were installed "hap-hazardly" in construction, but that seems less likely and wouldn't be my first thought.

Certainly if I was looking to purchase the car with a mis-match I'd think that the engine was replaced since installation in production regardless of what the seller was claiming.

By the same token, complete originality on these cars is not what I'd expect or even want so matching or unmatching engine numbers for me would not add or delete value in my eyes. It's ALMOST irrelevant.

Just to clarify, mine match.  I know with certainty my block is original to the car.  I was attempting to clarify that the serial number of the car and block number have no related sequence.  I have seen cars with higher serial numbers having block numbers lower than mine.  Which to me indicates the factory never cared to put a certain motor number in a certain chassis number.  I thought that was the OP's question.

@panterapatt posted:

Just to clarify, mine match.  I know with certainty my block is original to the car.  I was attempting to clarify that the serial number of the car and block number have no related sequence.  I have seen cars with higher serial numbers having block numbers lower than mine.  Which to me indicates the factory never cared to put a certain motor number in a certain chassis number.  I thought that was the OP's question.

That was a confusing statement to me since I can't recall anyone ever suggesting that it did have anything to do to the cars serial number.

I was referring to the separate "engine id" attached to the engine compartment.

I apologize if I created confusion.

FWIW it looks like many motors were dynoed before they were put in the cars . This vendor has offered meny in the last few years. The formats vary byyear and model. Too bad the current "holder" of files never shared.